El Bulli--From wonderful to absurd

[Bux]

For those who have not traveled in Spain, let me add this for greater understanding--or confusion. I have been in any number of restaurants, bars or highway rest stops, where in addition to a tapa and a racion, there is the offer of a media racion. Depending on the item, it may be offered in one, two or three sizes.

Another important consideration is that the whole concept of "tapa" or "tapas" seems to vary considerably from region to region. In Andalucia the range of foods available in a neighborhood, or a bar is extraordinary. The Basques too, excel in making tapas a real competition to a meal, but in Sevilla, tapas may rule as the preferred way to eat out. In the northwest, or Galicia at least, one is never served a drink without a free piece of food be it no more than a slice or two of dry sausage or hunk of cheese on a slice ot baguette. In most other parts of Spain one must order the food separately, although I seem to recall getting green olives with almost every drink in Madrid. One doesn't know Spain if one has visited but two or three areas.

"Barbacoa," as I understand it, was a word used native Americans living in the Caribbean when the Spanish "discovered" America. It meant food grilled on a fire. What's known as barbeque in the south and southwest of the US is a distinct form of cooking that deserves its own proud name and one that's not confused with grilled food. Unfortunately they've tried to command a word with an older meaning and thus we will continue to have confusion between "real" barbeque, and the original barbeque. I'm sure adherents of barbeque will object to my mention that it originally meant grilling.

[Mayhaw Man]

Barbacoa has a slightly different meaning in the Border Regions of Texas.

When one says "Barbacoa" what is being referred to is the pit roasted head of a cow. The whole head. Brains, eyeballs, tongue, etc. The best part is the cheek meat. Sweet and delicious. This is a dish that is normally consumed on Sunday morning as a treat for the family after mass. Generally the places vending Barbacoa will only have it on Sunday and cook a limited amount. When it is sold out, it is gone for the week.

There is an excellent description of this dining experience in Eric Lolis Elie's fine book, Smokestack Lightning, the finest BBQ book ever assembled. Well researched, insightful, and often very funny. This book is as good as it is ever likely to get on this particular, and highly volatile (at least with highly opinionated devotees of BBQ) subject.

Now, Back to our regularly scheduled programming.

[balex]

Hmm, barbecued ox cheeks ....

A quote from Carlos Abellán at Comerç 24 in the Observer food monthly (UK Sunday newspaper)

'I have never really been all that mad about the large main course. Tapas is, for me, the best way to eat. That's what they like in Thailand and Japan. Small rations. What we add maybe, because we incorporate the techniques of the Orient and the Americas, is a greater variety than has been seen before.'

Observer food monthly

So maybe the English interpretation isn't so dumb after all

[robyn]

Robert, I'd not likely to subcribe to any tight pigeon holing of Adria or El Bulli, but your old and new hypotheses fit well enough within my range of thoughts. Ferran Adria is the most accomplished cook in the western world today--undoubtedly the most important one as well--but he's a thinker, or in todays parlance--an idea man--above all else. His thinking doesn't stop at the kitchen. Just one example is his consultancy with nH Hotels where he's been tapped to help them not with consultation on a menu, but on a basic rethinking of what restaurant is and how a hotel restaurant might function in the future. I think I can say that in support of what you've already said.

I'm not sure I'm entirely comfortable with the trem "guinea pig" in relation to his clientele, but I'll agree that his natural audience is composed of chefs and dedicated diners with a natural curiosity and tolerance for experimentation. I'm resistant to the term "guinea pig" only because I feel that he's done the ultimate experiments and has already perfected the dish before he serves it at El Bulli. That the newness of the dishes and the general level of his creativity insure a certain kind of risk is undeniable, so this becomes a matter of semantics as may any difference we have regarding tapas and dinner.

I am slogging my way through a pile of December magazines and catalogues - and just stumbled across this month's Travel & Leisure. There's a timely article called "Spanish Revolution" which profiles 10 restaurants in Spain (El Celler de Can Roca; Arzak; Ca'Sento; Mugaritz; El Bohio; Tragabuches; El Poblet; Colbri; Santceloni and Echaurren).

It's a puff piece - not a review - as are most T&L articles (T&L has even managed to make my home town sound like a culinary mecca - which it most assuredly is not). However the article did mention that that Adria's "archrival" was Santi Santamaria of El Raco de Can Fabes. Is this true - and - if so - what is the rivalry about? Robyn

[pedro]

[...] However the article did mention that that Adria's "archrival" was Santi Santamaria of El Raco de Can Fabes.  Is this true - and - if so - what is the rivalry about?  Robyn

Some kind of rivalry exists, though perhaps it wouldn't qualify as archrivalry. Resuming it a lot, Santamaría is about product and local heritage and Adria about innovation. Santamaría doesn't conceive a meal without wine playing an important role, whereas with Adria approach is almost impossible to match wine and food. Santamaría conceives each dish around a main ingredient, and certainly that's not the case with Adria. IMHO, there are some others that have created a third way taking the best from these two. Namely, Berasategui.

From the foodie side, I'm glad to have both chefs around to pay them a visit now and then. God bless this kind of rivalry!

[robert brown]

Robyn, we must both be ex-hippies. I like your posts. It would have been nice if T&L explained the archrival thing. I am sure when vserna wakes up he can tell us. It must be philosophical, though it is hard to imagine Ferran Adria being the archrival of anyone.

A few people who have been on the site as long as I have (a month or two after eGullet started) know that I miss the good old days and belabor the point that high-end dining doesn't have the generosity and the concern for the well-being for the restaurant client that it used to. Restaurants and chefs have become parsimonious, as seen in the smaller number of people in the kitchen and dining room; the ever-growing lack of choice of dishes (often no choice at all); and the general loss of autonomy of the diner. It's all becoming rather gimmicky, too in a number of ways and mediocre chefs parade around with big egos. What passes as "a great meal" used to be undistinguished or mediocre ones, at least in terms of quality of ingredients and creating dishes with culinary integrity.

Bux, certainly Adria has the dishes down pat, but I think he wants to know if all those people in the kitchen can execute them and that they can be prepared and served in orderly fashion. One day I hope to be able to ask him why certain people leave his restaurant scratching their heads, if it bothers him, and if he thinks about trying to cut back on the number of dissidents.

vserna, you make the restaurants in the various regions of Spain sound so enticing. Is it possible for you to compare gastronomic touring in Spain to that in France, both now and in your salad days? How do you think the two compare now in terms of excitement and rewards? You have me dying to go hither and yon in your country.

[Bux]

Adria and Santamaria are both three star chefs working in the relatively small region of Catalunya. They are the only three star chefs in the region and it's a very long way to the next three star restaurant. My guess is that Travel & Liesure assumes they are incompetition for the best chef/restaurant in northeastern Spain, if not all of Spain and that they read more into this than is there. Victor could certainly set me right there. He'd have far more insight into what each of them really thinks of the other and the very idea that cooking is a completitive sport. I think it's just T&L's way of spicing up a lightweight magazine article. I think it's a good example of puff piece journalism.

I've found Can Fabes to be far more conservative than El Bulli and it's a far easier recommendation to make to someone whose tastes may be more traditional. Then again it's been a few years and gastronomy in Spain is very volitile right now. From Robyn's posts, I'n not be totally surprised at any reaction she might have to El Bulli including loving it or hating it, but even money would't get to bet on her liking it. I suspect the odds are well in favor or her appreciating Can Fabes. I think they both offer gastronomic greatness, but of a different style and thus are not really in competition. I'm not aware of either chef heading a movement that suggests theirs is the right way to cook.

They both have top ratings from Campsa as well as Michelin.

[robyn]

Robyn, we must both be ex-hippies. I like your posts. It would have been nice if T&L explained the archrival thing. I am sure when vserna wakes up he can tell us. It must be philosophical, though it is hard to imagine Ferran Adria being the archrival of anyone.

A few people who have been on the site as long as I have (a month or two after eGullet started)  know that I miss the good old days and belabor the point that high-end dining doesn't have the generosity and the concern for the well-being for the restaurant client that it used to. Restaurants and chefs have become parsimonious, as seen in the smaller number of people in the kitchen and dining room; the ever-growing lack of choice of dishes (often no choice at all); and the general loss of autonomy of the diner. It's all becoming rather gimmicky, too in a number of ways and mediocre chefs parade around with big egos. What passes as "a great meal" used to be undistinguished or mediocre ones, at least in terms of quality of ingredients and creating dishes with culinary integrity.

Bux, certainly Adria has the dishes down pat, but I think he wants to know if all those people in the kitchen can execute them and that they can be prepared and served in orderly fashion. One day I hope to be able to ask him why certain people leave his restaurant scratching their heads, if it bothers him, and if he thinks about trying to cut back on the number of dissidents.

vserna, you make the restaurants in the various regions of Spain sound so enticing. Is it possible for you to compare gastronomic touring in Spain to that in France, both now and in your salad days? How do you think the two compare now in terms of excitement and rewards? You have me dying to go hither and yon in your country.

You shouldn't write messages like this to an old broad like me. Floods my mind with memories. Ex-hippies. Let me see. I'm Cornell - Harvard Law School. But I also went to Woodstock (among other places - Woodstock is perhaps the only place I'd care to talk about in public). With half a dozen grilled chickens. Will trade grilled chicken for drugs. It worked at Woodstock <g>. These days - kids who would be younger than my kids if I had kids are more interested in Woodstock than Harvard.

I am also an old-fashioned "foodie". Had a mentor and good training - dating back to when I was in my late 20's. Have traveled a fair amount - and eaten at a lot of fine places. Was out of commission the last 3 years or so. Elderly sick parents - nursing home stuff and death - it's just that time of life - we've had to stick close to home. Things are stable now - and we can travel again. So I'm playing catch up going through these message boards. First trip will be London this spring. Food's not everything. We also enjoy theater - and English language theater towns are London, New York and Toronto (in that order in my opinion). And I also love gardening - so the Chelsea flower show in London is a must (it's on my list of "must-do's" before I get too old - and I've never seen it before).

My husband and I - like you - kind of long for the "good old days". Three star Michelin places at less than $200 including wine. You didn't need a written letter of introduction. Anyone with an AMEX card and a healthy appetite was greeted with a warm welcome (except perhaps at the top places in Paris - where more work was required). And the only time the chef wasn't in the kitchen was when his wife was giving birth. Seems to me there's too much money these days - chasing fewer and fewer great restaurants. Too much demand - not enough supply. Kind of the opposite of the 70's and early 80's.

As for Spain - see my message to Pedro.

I like your posts too. Regards, Robyn

[robert brown]

Robyn, after you've milked the message boards, don't stop posting. We want to hear about your travels. Reminisances are appreciated as well.

[robyn]

[...] However the article did mention that that Adria's "archrival" was Santi Santamaria of El Raco de Can Fabes.  Is this true - and - if so - what is the rivalry about?  Robyn

Some kind of rivalry exists, though perhaps it wouldn't qualify as archrivalry. Resuming it a lot, Santamaría is about product and local heritage and Adria about innovation. Santamaría doesn't conceive a meal without wine playing an important role, whereas with Adria approach is almost impossible to match wine and food. Santamaría conceives each dish around a main ingredient, and certainly that's not the case with Adria. IMHO, there are some others that have created a third way taking the best from these two. Namely, Berasategui.

From the foodie side, I'm glad to have both chefs around to pay them a visit now and then. God bless this kind of rivalry!

OK Pedro - I assume from your posts and your biography information that you're in Madrid. Can't tell a lie. I was only in Spain once after I was married - for almost a month - but it was almost 20 years ago (was there also when I was a college student in the 60's but that doesn't count at all in terms of food). It was a time when the Goyas in the Prado didn't have air conditioning (that was sad) - and the main food choices in Madrid were kind of fun old fashiioned places like Botin - everything asado - and 3 star Michelin places that had pretty bad French food (Michelin would always give more stars to French food than the local food - no matter what country you were in).

We traveled a lot in other areas of Spain - especially the North - San Sebastian - the Basque country- and the like - but about the most we got there was really nice fresh seafood.

It's obvious that things have changed a lot since the last time I was in Spain.

Tell me about Berasategui. What's the name of his restaurant(s). Where is it? And what is the third way?

You are making it sound like it would be fun to go to Spain again (if nothing else - my husband and I both enjoy going to places where we speak the language). I know I can't make time to be there before 2005. In the meantime - if I go to La Broche in Miami when I'm in Miami next month - what can I expect (assuimg it's like La Broche in Madrid)? Robyn

[Bux]

vserna, you make the restaurants in the various regions of Spain sound so enticing. Is it possible for you to compare gastronomic touring in Spain to that in France, both now and in your salad days? How do you think the two compare now in terms of excitement and rewards? You have me dying to go hither and yon in your country.

Robert, this was a great leading question and Victor responded with a post that I thought should start a new thread--Gastronomic tours in the rest of Spain. There's more to Spain that El Bulli and more than Catalunya and the Pais Vasco.

[pedro]

OK Pedro - I assume from your posts and your biography information that you're in Madrid.

Right assumption, indeed. Born in BCN, though. Fan of Real Madrid.

  Can't tell a lie.  I was only in Spain once after I was married - for almost a month - but it was almost 20 years ago (was there also when I was a college student in the 60's but that doesn't count at all in terms of food).  It was a time when the Goyas in the Prado didn't have air conditioning (that was sad) - and the main food choices in Madrid were kind of fun old fashiioned places like Botin - everything asado - and 3 star Michelin places that had pretty bad French food (Michelin would always give more stars to French food than the local food - no matter what country you were in).

It was a time when I was, well, thirteen?. My idea of gastronomic heaven those days were the delightful canelones cooked in the Catalonian way by my mother. Now that I think about it, that continues to be the idea of gastronomic heaven.

It's obvious that things have changed a lot since the last time I was in Spain.

I suppose the country has changed a lot in this 20 yrs. At least, I did.

We traveled a lot in other areas of Spain - especially the North - San Sebastian - the Basque country- and the like - but about the most we got there was really nice fresh seafood.

You still can find extremely fresh seafood and fish, cooked in simple and delicious ways. They master this type of cooking up there.

Tell me about Berasategui.  What's the name of his restaurant(s).  Where is it?  And what is the third way?

Berasategui is a 3-starred chef which runs several restaurants in the Basque Country. His flagship, Martín Berasategui, is about 8 miles from Donostia, and gave place to heated debate recently in this forum. You could find lots of info in:

Help in Donosti

TDG: San Sebastian Dining: Akelare to Zuberoa, Antidote to the Spanish Indigestion

and let's not forget Robert's article:

Robert's article

along with MB's own thread:

Martín Berasategui - 2003, grim

We should be reading more about it once Bux make up his mind (and time) to write about his recent trip. Although is becoming not so recent...

You are making it sound like it would be fun to go to Spain again (if nothing else - my husband and I both enjoy going to places where we speak the language).  I know I can't make time to be there before 2005.  In the meantime - if I go to La Broche in Miami when I'm in Miami next month - what can I expect (assuimg it's like La Broche in Madrid)?  Robyn

Sergi Arola, the chef behind La Broche, is a disciple of Adria. He himself gives a lot of credit to how Adria influenced his way of cooking. So you can expect an extreme creative way of cooking in some dishes.

As Victor said in a recent post, sometimes brilliant, but with consistency issues. My last dinner there in May was quite a disappointment (in a long menu, just the two entrées were up to expectations).

That said, I thought they closed La Broche in Miami. Am I wrong?.

Edited December 12, 2003 by pedro (log)

[vserna]

You're not, Pedro. Miami's La Broche was closed months ago. In the final phases Sergi Arola was not involved at all.

[robyn]

You're not, Pedro. Miami's La Broche was closed months ago. In the final phases Sergi Arola was not involved at all.

I spoke with my brother a few days ago to make plans to get together in Miami in a couple of months - and he told me the same thing. Too bad I missed going there earlier this year. Robyn

[pedro]

I caught an excerpt of an interview to Ferrán Adrià in Canal Gastronomía, and he made a couple of statements that could be worth to share with you:

a) He stressed very much that the kind of cookware he uses in El Bulli is pretty much the same what you could find in any restaurant kitchen in the world. He literally said that they weren't using any NASA equipment.

b) They're planning to move to bi-annual menus, meaning that you won't see a radical change in the 2004 menu compared with 2003. He stated that they have the feeling that they weren't working enough in some ideas they have, so they weren't getting all the potential from some dishes. He mentioned that opening just 6 months per year was related to this.

I was surprised about b). What do you think about it?.

[Bux]

b) They're planning to move to bi-annual menus, meaning that you won't see a radical change in the 2004 menu compared with 2003. He stated that they have the feeling that they weren't working enough in some ideas they have, so they weren't getting all the potential from some dishes. He mentioned that opening just 6 months per year was related to this.

I was surprised about b). What do you think about it?.

In a way, I would have thought the opposite--that they have too many ideas and need to change the menu very often in order to use all their ideas. In another way however, I think I understand him very much. In spite of the fact that this seems like the most experimental restaurant on earth and in spite of the fact that that there are dishes I may not understand or appreciate, I had the sense that everything he serves has been seriously considered and perfected before it comes to the table. This is not the restaurant of some wild and crazy inventor, it's public face of a creative chef, who is as much a perfectionist as he is an inventor. My guess is that some dishes take a long time to perfect, or at least until he's ready to serve them.

I'm also aware that he can't possilby handle the demand for reservations and that by offering dishes for two years, he may be able to reduce the demand a bit from those who have to keep up with the latest dishes. I'm kind of surprised he hasn't thought of changing half the menu each year. It would accomplish the same thing and perhaps be a little smoother.

[Matthew Grant]

Can't we all agree that it is possible that Adria has had an off year, maybe development of the dishes didn't go well over the winter. How difficult must it be to create so many new dishes every year? Maybe this year he failed? Maybe next year will be amazing? Maybe this year was amazing and I didn't get it (along with the rest of the dining room judging by their faces).

[robert brown]

I'm confused here. What is a "menu" when in six months Adria serves perhaps 100 dishes. Is he going to eliminate certain dishes such as the ones that he sees that many diners don't like or the ones that often come back untouched? I thkink we need some clarificaton here. I dined there twice last year and it seemed that three-quarters of the dishes were different between the two meals

[Bux]

I was there once last year, but we dined with a friend who had been there only a week before he joined us for another meal and he assured me that there was but one duplication in his meal. When you consider he's allergic to fish and seafood and that Adria's offerings are heavily seafood oriented, you get some idea of the range at his command at any meal. If I haven't been specific, Adria substituted an appropriate dish for every course for our friend while we ate the menu of the day.

[pedro]

I'm confused here. What is a "menu" when in six months Adria serves perhaps 100 dishes. Is he going to eliminate certain dishes such as the ones that he sees that many diners don't like or the ones that often come back untouched? I thkink we need some clarificaton here. I dined there twice last year and it seemed that three-quarters of the dishes were different between the two meals

Well, probably menu is a bad term. Perhaps it'll be better to say that dishes which appear in a given year (maybe the 100 you mentioned) would be perfected during that season and the next, with none or minimal incorporations of new dishes in season "n + 1".

He didn't say anything specifically dealing with removal of dishes or the alike. Could it be that the number of untouched/barely touched dishes has reached a point where he feels there's something to tackle?

Edited February 17, 2004 by pedro (log)

[robert brown]

Then there's the question of how much inventing he will do between October and April. Is this a measure he is taking to give himself some more time for other activities? Juli, are you there?

[Suzi Edwards]

doesn't he guarentee that if you eat there more than once you will never get the same dish twice?

that said, i didn't have a huge amount of dishes i would want to eat twice.