Woodcock in Restaurants

[docsconz]

Can anyone tell me if it is legal to serve wildgame in general and woodcock in particular in Restaurants in NY?

[Bux]

I know of two restaurants in NYC that served it, although it might not appear on the menu of either. I've been served Scottish Grouse and told to look out for the shot. Either it was wild or they were pulling my leg about the pellets. I believe the grouse was listed on the menu. The woodcock might not appear even if it was legal as the restaurant might not get enough to meet demand.

[Fat Guy]

My understanding is that in the United States it is not legal to serve game hunted in the United States in a restaurant or to sell it at all. I believe the reason for this is that hunted game cannot conform to USDA inspection requirements. There seem to be some exceptions to the rule, however: You can trap the game and bring it alive to a USDA-inspected facility for slaughter; there seem to be some exceptions for Native American production (or maybe that's the case in Canada -- I can't remember); and it seems it's legal to import hunted game from other countries, though I confess I don't know how they get around the USDA inspection requirement. So, for example, there are restaurants -- expensive ones for the most part -- that sell wild Scottish game in season, including woodcock. I don't know who happens to have it this year, though, and it's likely to be a briefly available seasonal item on a game-theme menu.

I haven't read all these laws. I'm just pulling together a bunch of stuff I've heard. Maybe someone in the biz knows more.

[Bux]

Daniel's web site lists Scottish Pheasant Terrine as an appetizer and Roasted Scottish Partridge as a main course. Neither says it's wild or hunted, but the venison is listed as Roasted Milbrook Farm Venison Loin. I believe both partridge and pheasant are farm raised as game birds, as well as hunted in the wild. Scottish Partridge at ADNY at the Essex House as well.

[pedro]

My understanding is that in the United States it is not legal to serve game hunted in the United States in a restaurant or to sell it at all.

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Really? I mean, really?

[docsconz]

To answer my own question:

On page 140 of the 4th Edition of On Food and Cooking, Harold McGee writes:

While the autumn game season is still celebrated in many European restaurants with wild duck, hare,pheasant, partridge, deer and boar, in the United States wild meats are banned from commerce (only inspected meat can be sold legally, and hunted meat is not inspected)

[Dryden]

I very definitely had woodcock (with a warning about the shot) about a month ago at Craftbar. What that means, I don't know.

[docsconz]

I very definitely had woodcock (with a warning about the shot) about a month ago at Craftbar.  What that means, I don't know.

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Was it on the menu? I wonder if somehow they got it inspected.

What did you think of it? Have you had it before?

[marcus]

It is not legal to sell domestic wild hunted game, as opposed to imported hunted game or game shot on a game farm. It is also not legal to sell wild caught freshwater fish (Great Lakes may be an exception). It is legal to consume it for personal use. I don't know what the inspection requirements are, but I have always assumed that this prohibition was due to the fact that wild fish and game is managed at government expense, and selling wild fish and game commercially would represent an illegal subsidy of commercial interests by the government.

[little ms foodie]

Not in NYC but I've had Scottish Woodcock on a tasting menu here in Seattle. It was definately hunted as we were warned, and found, some buckshot.

I liked the flavor, I remember it being delicate but still having a bit of that 'gamey' flavor you have with wild game.

We were told that it had been FedEx'd in that morning.

[Judith Gebhart]

I very definitely had woodcock (with a warning about the shot) about a month ago at Craftbar.  What that means, I don't know.

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Was it on the menu? I wonder if somehow they got it inspected.

What did you think of it? Have you had it before?

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I have never had woodcock in the US but certainly in France and Spain. And, where is Craftbar?

I know that woodcock has been a hunted game bird in the US. I am also told by bird conservationists that it is illegal. These bird conservationists are a strong, very vocal minority. Most of the woodcocks here in Illinois die, during their migration, by the hundreds when they hit the tallest glass buildings mirroring the sky. That's one theory. For some reason the woodcock is very vulnerable, more so than other birds. I don't know why the woodcock suffers this fate in such greater numbers.

I suspect that the farming of many ducks, venison, geese, pheasant et al, here in the US is far less expensive than hunting wild game. I am also told that England, France and Spain have laws restricting or outlawing the hunt of the wild. I have witnessed the results of a wild boar hunt near Fontjoncouse, France 2 years ago. I am off the thread. Judith Gebhart

l

[alexhills]

i've just moved back to England from the US and i have to admit walking into the butcher's shop today and seeing pheasant and grouse, still with the feathers on, hanging in the window made me very happy... hunted game is even available in supermarkets here. hunting with hounds has recently - and controversially - been made illegal - but shot meat can be sold commercially, i believe with very little restriction (although the hunting is itself, of course, very highly controlled).

Edited January 10, 2005 by alexhills (log)

[chopjwu12]

im not going to say yes o no but just remember there are ways around everything. but it is illegal to sell hunted animals in the us. Tasting menus can be flexible however. Remember cabraleses hunt for ortalan(sp) well she got it somewhere i believe, i could be wrong though.

Edited January 10, 2005 by chopjwu12 (log)

[Dryden]

I very definitely had woodcock (with a warning about the shot) about a month ago at Craftbar.  What that means, I don't know.

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Was it on the menu? I wonder if somehow they got it inspected.

What did you think of it? Have you had it before?

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It was not on the menu, actually. The waiter mentioned it as a special, and he mentioned it was Scottish. I had not had it before - it was delicious, a bit more "wild" in taste then a cornish hen or a squab, but wonderful throughout.

For the person who asked, Craftbar is at 47 E 19th St.

How do you get an ortolan in the US? I'm gonna have to find that thread...

[Dryden]

D'artagnan sells lots of game birds (not ortolan, though) through their website - the issue is only with serving them in a restaurant, I assume.

[marcus]

D'artagnan sells lots of game birds (not ortolan, though) through their website - the issue is only with serving them in a restaurant, I assume.

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No difference, restauarant or retail. If they were hunted, they need to be imported, not shot in the US.

Edited January 10, 2005 by marcus (log)

[Bux]

D'artagnan sells lots of game birds (not ortolan, though) through their website - the issue is only with serving them in a restaurant, I assume.

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No difference, restauarant or retail. If they were hunted, they need to be imported, not shot in the US.

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The question in some people's mind is whether they still have to be hunted an an USDA approved slaughterhouse -- sort of like Iberico ham can only be imported if the pigs were killed in a USDA inspected slaughterhouse.

[MichaelB]

D'artagnan sells lots of game birds (not ortolan, though) through their website - the issue is only with serving them in a restaurant, I assume.

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All of the game birds that I have gotten through D'Artagnan over the years have been from Scotland.

I can assure you that what you (meaning everyone upthread) ate at Daniel or Craftbar or ADNY -- or pretty much everywhere else, including Seattle -- came from D'Artagnan. They pretty much have a lock on that market.

Funny thing is -- that Scottish pheasant was probably a chick bred and hatched on the huge operation in Wisconsin (the name escapes me right now), shipped to Scotland, raised on an estate and shot by some American who paid big bucks to do so.

[docsconz]

D'artagnan sells lots of game birds (not ortolan, though) through their website - the issue is only with serving them in a restaurant, I assume.

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All of the game birds that I have gotten through D'Artagnan over the years have been from Scotland.

I can assure you that what you (meaning everyone upthread) ate at Daniel or Craftbar or ADNY -- or pretty much everywhere else, including Seattle -- came from D'Artagnan. They pretty much have a lock on that market.

Funny thing is -- that Scottish pheasant was probably a chick bred and hatched on the huge operation in Wisconsin (the name escapes me right now), shipped to Scotland, raised on an estate and shot by some American who paid big bucks to do so.

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Do they sell woodcock?

[Dryden]

They don't seem to...

[MichaelB]

D'artagnan sells lots of game birds (not ortolan, though) through their website - the issue is only with serving them in a restaurant, I assume.

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All of the game birds that I have gotten through D'Artagnan over the years have been from Scotland.

I can assure you that what you (meaning everyone upthread) ate at Daniel or Craftbar or ADNY -- or pretty much everywhere else, including Seattle -- came from D'Artagnan. They pretty much have a lock on that market.

Funny thing is -- that Scottish pheasant was probably a chick bred and hatched on the huge operation in Wisconsin (the name escapes me right now), shipped to Scotland, raised on an estate and shot by some American who paid big bucks to do so.

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Do they sell woodcock?

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I am confident you won't find it on the web site. This is the sort of thing that a chef would hear about when he phones in his order.

The rep says "I am getting a few [whatever] next week. How much do you want?"

[Dryden]

They have wild partridge and a couple of other game birds on their website, however.

[cevapcici]

I very definitely had woodcock (with a warning about the shot) about a month ago at Craftbar.  What that means, I don't know.

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You had a Wild Scottish Wood Pigeon, a very different bird, much closer to Squab. And, yes, it came from D'Artagnan. It's available on their web site to general public as well. They are wild birds that are hunted on private estates in Scottland and then shipped to the US.

[Dryden]

I'll take your word for it - the waiter described it as woodcock.

[ducphat30]

Funny thing is -- that Scottish pheasant was probably a chick bred and hatched on the huge operation in Wisconsin (the name escapes me right now), shipped to Scotland, raised on an estate and shot by some American who paid big bucks to do so.

Are you thinking of MacFarlane Farms?

They seem to have the market cornered on domestic pheasant production.