Lilykate in Yaletown

[surfer_dream]

What can I say here that would top what Lee says... another self-acclaimed Vancouver food critic AM's with more baggage than she knows what to do with. I admire this forums content but when I here a critic just spouting verbal diahrrea for the sake of making a penny makes me gag and my stomach turn. I have eaten a Lily Kates several times and yes it is definitely expensive. Coffee is way to strong, soups are great, weekend brunch bring a credit card with '0' balance. Eventually they will set their mark but need to make some heedy changes asap before they are truly underwritten...

[Andrew Morrison]

Thanks for the insults and insights.

[canucklehead]

Had lunch with the egullet mafia at LilyKate. After my ranting - I decided to follow through and actually eat there. I was afraid that it would be a disaster and I would be eating crow. However, my beef with the Straight's review was the fact that Angela did not eat the food before critisizing - so whether the food ended being good or bad was moot.,

So, observations:

- The space is very nice - big and soaring. But it is oddly at odds with the food. Instead of feeling like comfort food in a clean funky space - it was more like a cafeteria in a warehouse.

- The prices are fairly steep. I had a very large bowl of pork goulash, a side of buttermilk mash and an organgina - which set me back about $17.00 The food was very good though. Mooshmouse and her husband each had a very nice bowl spicy chicken stew (though her cobb salad was composed of iceberg lettuce - good crunch, no flavor). Daddy-A had a slice of quiche (8.50!). Ling's meal was obviously dessertcentric - a small bowl of goulash and a large slice of cake. More about dessert later. Lunch specials seem like a decent deal though, 10$ gets you a very civilized sandwich with good ingredients and side salad (beet salad today).

- Silly mistakes. Seems like their microwaves where not running well today. It took two trips back to the counter to get the food sufficiently hot. This was the case for everybody who had stews. Not a good thing. However, the server was quick on her feet and offered the table comped desserts.

- Service was very very good. Like I said above - the server quickly made appologies and the table ended up getting a slice of coconut cake and two crushed ice coffee shakey things. I could also see (in the mirrors) that the staff really tried to keep an eye on us. I went to speak with our main server and thanked for the coconut cake and mentioned the Straight review - and she was also very gracious about it - basically something like -"everybody has different tastes - so it's okay". Smart girl.

- The coconut cake was the star of lunch - really excellent dense cake with deep coconut flavor and lots of shredded coconut and frosted with italian merengue (please I know I am a terrible terrible speller - when is egullet going to have spell check?). If coconut cake is your thing - this is the best version of it that I've had in Vancouver.

So, I did not have to eat crow - but not sure if LilyKate will be a regular thing for me. That being said - it is not some sort of food pariah. If I lived in the area - I would pick up take out - and get it really hot at home. I will definitely come back for the coconut cake (a good deal @ $5 per serving).

I want to thank the egullet mafia for indulging my rant - we ended up having more desserts at Ganache (which was excellent). I think that Mooshmouse will have some pictures as proof.

Edited April 22, 2005 by canucklehead (log)

[Daddy-A]

Had lunch with the egullet mafia at LilyKate.  After my ranting - I decided to follow through and actually eat there.

<SNIP>

I want to thank the egullet mafia for indulging my rant

Lee, thanks for your review, which was pretty bang on my experience.

I'll add that the quiche, although expensive, was very good. The Tomato-Basil soup was good, but I'll make the trip down Hamilton for Neil's soup over this one any time.

And what was with the "PA" system? Minor issue (but quite annoying for me) is the stereo playing in that cavernous room ... echo-city! I have been to my share of Rush concerts ... if the Pacific Colisuem can get the sound right, so can LilyKate.

A.

[Ling]

My lunch at Lilykate was decent, but at $11 for a slice of chocolate buttermilk cake, and a small bowl of pork stroganoff, I felt it was a little pricey. The pork stroganoff was not bad, though I found the pork a little dry. Angela's brie and avocado sandwich (smeared with some sort of citrus dressing) looked good, and the chicken and bean stew that Joie and her husband ordered was pretty tasty. The chocolate cake was moist and dark, with a thick layer of decent (i.e. not Safeway) frosting. The coconut cake covered in the Italian meringue was my favourite item--quite dense, like a butter cake, and layered with a filling that tasted like coconuty condensed milk.

edit: I didn't know so many Egulleters like coconut cake. I have a coconut cake recipe that I've been meaning to try...the legendary 6-layer Ultimate Coconut cake from the Peninsula Grill. Will have to make it for you all soon!

Edited April 23, 2005 by Ling (log)

[Mooshmouse]

canucklehead hit the nail on the head with his review; ergo, I have precious little else to add. I will say, however, that the coconut layer cake was truly a wonderous thing, though you must be a coconut fan through and through to enjoy it. The Italian meringue was wonderful and the cake itself was moist and delicately sweet. If for nothing else, I'll return to LilyKate just to have another slice of the coconut layer cake. Soon. Photos of this and the chocolate cake will be posted on the "Sweets And The City" thread.

[PaoPao]

So I was in Lilykate today getting my staples (Buttermilk Choc. Cake, Coconut Cake, and Rice Krispy Bar dipped in chocolate) and I couldn't help but notice their menu's we're down. Come to find out the old Chef is out, and the new Chef who took his place is bringing in a new menu.

I'm looking forward to see what the new menu entails, along with hopefully better flavours for the $$$.

Ooh exciting!

[PaoPao]

I was in again yesterday talking with some of the staff. I'm feeling kind of sorry for them as it seems like the rainy Sunday and maybe other factors were having customers come in pretty sporadically.

Out of all my friends who have tried this place, their opinions echo what has already been written about in this thread. The exception only being some close friends who just love the Brunch's there.

I was told that a new revised sit down menu is being released today. Hopefully that will breathe a bit of life and excitement back into this establishment.

They have also removed the large overhead menu's above the counter so that they can have more creative license in "changing" things up.

[PaoPao]

Old Lilykate now known as LK Dining Lounge is trying really hard. Different events ranging from artist venues to DJ's are scheduled each night. Last night I ordered Take Out from a new menu that they have. Spinach Salad, their LKNY Pizza (Pepperoni, Mushrooms, and Olives on a thin crust) and a slice of Coconut Cake. Got there around 7 PM and not a soul in the place. They also play movies w/ no sound projected on one of the walls. The staff were very helpful and attentive if not overly from being just bored. Their new menu has some interesting items like fondue’s and a Duck Pizza. When I made the long haul across the street home, I started with the salad. Pretty good, lots of onions, mushrooms, and real Bacon Bits. When my wife got home she wouldn't kiss me so I know it was potent. The night before last I had a pizza at Marcello's, which I thought was outstanding, so eating a pizza right after the Marcello's one was a big test. Unfortunately it wasn't that great. The Coconut Cake however continues to be a standout dessert. It's really, really good. They skimped on the frosting which made me a little sad, but my waist was surely relieved.

The room there has a cool vibe and would be a great place to hang out with some friends and drink a bit while eating some interesting items.

[*Deborah*]

They just sent my office 6 pages of photocopied menus (nightly specials, lunch, brunch, dinner, lounge) and a fax order sheet for lunch takeout...

They certainly are trying hard: "Every time you visit LK Dining Lounge you will receive a coupon for money off the next time we see you!"

Autograt of 20% for parties of 6 or more may be of interest for those who want to take a big group for the $5.25 Vodka and Red Bull Thursdays.

[vandan]

"they are trying hard" perhaps too hard , not always a good sign for them i'd say

[kontemporary]

Autograt of 20% for parties of 6 or more may be of interest for those who want to take a big group for the $5.25 Vodka and Red Bull Thursdays.

←

that doesn't make sense to me.. are you sure you don't mean the gratuity is automatically added in, like most restaurants in Vancouver do?

[*Deborah*]

Autograt of 20% for parties of 6 or more may be of interest for those who want to take a big group for the $5.25 Vodka and Red Bull Thursdays.

←

that doesn't make sense to me.. are you sure you don't mean the gratuity is automatically added in, like most restaurants in Vancouver do?

←

The autograt is 20% (not, e.g., 15% or 18%). It is added for parties of 6 or more (not, e.g., 8 or more). Vodka and Red Bull is $5.25 on Thursday evenings.

...what did you think I meant?

[kontemporary]

Autograt of 20% for parties of 6 or more may be of interest for those who want to take a big group for the $5.25 Vodka and Red Bull Thursdays.

←

that doesn't make sense to me.. are you sure you don't mean the gratuity is automatically added in, like most restaurants in Vancouver do?

←

The autograt is 20% (not, e.g., 15% or 18%). It is added for parties of 6 or more (not, e.g., 8 or more). Vodka and Red Bull is $5.25 on Thursday evenings.

...what did you think I meant?

←

ohh, I think I misinterpreted that. I thought you were trying to say the autograt was a good thing in continuation of the line before that.. which led me to believe that Lilykate was paying 20% gratuities to their servers so you wouldnt have to (with a group of 6 or more). of course that's not the case, as I thought it was an awkward concept

sorry for the confusion

[Dumpling Girl]

I certainly don't mind paying 20% (and usually more) for great service voluntarily, but I think that's steep for an autograt. What if they're not that good? You're still stuck with the tip, and I thought the whole point of tipping was to reward and encourage great service. Mental note - be sure not to bring too many people with me to LilyKate.

[300rwhp]

As I understand it, autograt is a automatic gratuity (duh). As such under the laws of BC it is not required to be paid. So if you feel unsatisfied with the service feel free. Especially as 20% is insane, inst that what thomas keller charges.

The difference and this is important is service versus gratuity. Service must be paid as it is like a menu item whereas grat is up to the diner. Irregardless of it being added in advance. But those who operate business;s in town will be better suited to comment.

[eatvancouver]

I used to date a girl who worked here so I was privy to some inside information. Apparently the owner has pumped a lot of money into this place and has a 2 year lease, so she is dedicated to making it work. They have been throwing concepts out there and hoping something would stick. I think the first idea was homestyle cooking served cafeteria style. And recently they started calling it LK because they felt Lily Kate was alienating potential male customers.

[McTee]

As I understand it, autograt is a automatic gratuity (duh). As such under the laws of BC it is not required to be paid.  So if you feel unsatisfied with the service feel free. Especially as 20% is insane, inst that what thomas keller charges.

The difference and this is important is service versus gratuity.  Service must be paid as it is like a menu item whereas grat is up to the diner.  Irregardless of it being added in advance. But those who operate business;s in town will be better suited to comment.

←

As all of us in the industry are aware, the purpose of the autograt is to ensure that after all the guests in the group have chipped in their share, the server ends up actually getting a fair gratuity.

The reasons are:

If a server has a table of 20, it is highly likely that this is the only table that the server will be serving for their shift, so essentially your table has a private waiter. Without an automatic gratuity, the server's entire night is at the mercy of the very likely event that guests incorrectly calculate what they owe + tax + grat, and when the bill barely gets covered in the end, they must rely on the chance that someone will notice. Can you imagine serving 20 people for 2.5 to 3 hours and making $20 on a $500 cheque? You wouldn't be very happy when the other servers in the room with regular sections are walking home with $150.

So it basically functions as a tool to 1. ensure a fair grat and 2. it takes the responsibility from the guest to calculate the grat.

Not that I agree with 20% as a number, however...............

[Dumpling Girl]

As I understand it, autograt is a automatic gratuity (duh). As such under the laws of BC it is not required to be paid.  So if you feel unsatisfied with the service feel free. Especially as 20% is insane, inst that what thomas keller charges.

The difference and this is important is service versus gratuity.  Service must be paid as it is like a menu item whereas grat is up to the diner.  Irregardless of it being added in advance. But those who operate business;s in town will be better suited to comment.

←

As all of us in the industry are aware, the purpose of the autograt is to ensure that after all the guests in the group have chipped in their share, the server ends up actually getting a fair gratuity.

The reasons are:

If a server has a table of 20, it is highly likely that this is the only table that the server will be serving for their shift, so essentially your table has a private waiter. Without an automatic gratuity, the server's entire night is at the mercy of the very likely event that guests incorrectly calculate what they owe + tax + grat, and when the bill barely gets covered in the end, they must rely on the chance that someone will notice. Can you imagine serving 20 people for 2.5 to 3 hours and making $20 on a $500 cheque? You wouldn't be very happy when the other servers in the room with regular sections are walking home with $150.

So it basically functions as a tool to 1. ensure a fair grat and 2. it takes the responsibility from the guest to calculate the grat.

Not that I agree with 20% as a number, however...............

←

Thanks, McTee. And even being outside of the industry, I did understand that purpose, and I do sympathize. And that group effect still surprises me every time - even when I'm dining out with a very intelligent, fairly mathematical bunch, it always seems that someone undercalculates, and sometimes it falls to me to top it up (since I'll be part of the smaller group of people totalling everything up to make sure we have enough). I don't really have trouble with the 15%, and have had that happen many times, and thankfully, the service has always warranted at least that. But I'm dreading the day when it doesn't measure up. Best group dining service I've had recently was Steamworks, where they gave us all individual bills, and it worked out beautifully (with the 15% added). I still stand by my comments though. If I do not get service that deserves 20% (in this case, it's for groups as small as 6 people! In a space that used to be like a cafeteria?!), then I find it offensive to have that on my bill automatically, and you can say that if the service is subpar, you can have a discussion with the manager about it, and not pay it, but I find that kind of confrontation very distasteful, and it would ruin my evening to be forced into engaging in that. So, knowing ahead of time that there is that high of an autograt would be enough for me to choose not to dine at that establishment in case they suck.

And ideally from a consumer point of view, I would still prefer some sort of system of tip suggestion, even with groups. For example, have the 15% and 20% totals worked out, but present it as a separate piece of paper rather than as a seemingly mandatory "service fee." It's just a philosophical matter for me. I would still wind up tipping 15 or 20%. This will probably never happen, but if a restaurant did that instead of the autograt or "service fee", I would definitely prefer that restaurant for group outtings purely from a philosophical standpoint (and you can be sure that I'd total everything up and make sure that the servers were rewarded for good service). Anyhow, I know it's unlikely to happen, as the autograt is so standard now. Oh well. No harm in throwing it out there. Oh, how IS the service at LK, btw? (as I try to steer back on topic... )

Nancy

Edited December 13, 2005 by Dumpling Girl (log)

[fud]

^ This thread really makes me wonder then...why not just pay the servers 15 to 20% more and just charge people that percentage on the bill itself? Autograt does this anyways so why not just have it as part of the food cost?

If customers have a bad time they can speak to management which is what they should do anyways.

Down with tipping, up with wages

[McTee]

^ This thread really makes me wonder then...why not just pay the servers 15 to 20% more and just charge people that percentage on the bill itself?  Autograt does this anyways so why not just have it as part of the food cost?

If customers have a bad time they can speak to management which is what they should do anyways.

Down with tipping, up with wages

←

Simple question, simple answer.

Do you want your server to work for your money or just show up for it?

Also, with the system the way it is, when it's busy, everybody wins and when it's slow, the labour cost isn't going to make the difference between a struggling restaurant being able to give it a go for another month, or closing down permanently. A server working an 8 hour shift (common in hotels but unheard of in private restaurants) making $120 on that shift is $15 per hour. In a private restaurant, if a server were to get paid $23 per hour, ($8 + $15) and you have 4 servers on the floor, the establishment pays $100 per hour on labour + CPP +EI + any other benefits. As it is currently, restaurants make approx. 10% profit. If restaurateurs were to raise wages, it wouldn't be by 15% to 20%, it would have to be a 300% raise in order to make up for the absence of gratuities, assuming that the raise in menu prices goes directly to the staff.

And to get back on topic, I haven't been to LK as of yet but I want to go if I end up around Yaletown.

Edited December 13, 2005 by McTee (log)

[fud]

^ LK looked a lot bigger than I had initially remembered it being. I peeked in on my way to Diner on the weekend. I'll give it a shake sometime - looks kinda funky in there.

Good point McTee, wage increase has a big impact when business is slow. I guess grat is like comission for each food sale. The more food the restaurant can put in front of customers, the more the grat generally. As a consumer I've always been of the mind that the price listed is what we pay. This of course says a lot about everything: tipping, taxes, etc... It was refreshing to have exactly this setup in Japan when I was visiting.

Ok enough hijacking the thread - I applaud LK for really trying new things and being bold about wholesale changes to see what direction the restautant can go in. It seems to me restaurants are a hard-as-hell business and it takes a lot of courage and confidence to keep them up to date or to identify things that can be changed.

[seanw]

McTee,

"Simple question, simple answer" you have obviously considered all the issues, good luck on the brain trust.

[chocomoo]

I went by LilyKate tonight with the intention of trying out the fondue with my friends (dark chocolate with pound cake squares, homemade marshmallows & fresh fruit! ) but the lights were out & there was not a soul to be seen. There was a sign on the door listing a few days that they are closing, & Dec. 18th didn't seem to be one of those days. I don't remember which days they're closed, but they're taking a holiday break from Dec. 24th to Jan. 5th. With Christmas coming up so soon, I guess we'll have to wait until the New Year to try out the fondue!