Philly Wine/Liquor Laws

[jogoode]

I've spent some time in Philly and have heard friends complain about the regulations on liquor. But I'm not quite sure what they are and how they affect the availability of wine and its price. Could someone explain?

And if there are laws that make it hard to get wine at a fair price, what do you do about it? Do you drive to Moore Brothers and stock up?

Thanks!

[wkl]

I believe the main complaint is that wine sales are completely sold through the state system, at state owned retail stores only.The selection of wine and the handling of it has always been suspect.

I live in Delaware so I never buy retail in Pa, but it certainly seems to make wine in restaurants expensive.If I lived in Pa, I certainly would buy my juice at Moore Brothers.

[KatieLoeb]

As a former employee at Moore Brothers, certainly I can attest to the fact that there were many customers in the database with PA zip codes. Sure folks would cross the bridge and come buy wine there, and it was selection, price and mostly I believe, the customer service that was the draw to doing that. But the issues with the PLCB are more about the fact that the agency is a self-sustaining "middleman" in the process and there's an instantaneous 50-60% markup from "wholesale" before the shelf price is set. Most bottles of wine that aren't hard to find or "boutique" type productions (much of which is what Moore Brothers specializes in) are anywhere from $2-5 cheaper in NJ, where competition between retailers and genuine free enterprise creates better pricing. The PLCB is also the largest purchaser of wholesale wine and spirits in North America (possibly the world) so this sometimes works the other way, in the customer's favor, as it does with the "Chairman's Selections" that I've been crowing about lately, or with certain widely available/high demand products like Dom Perignon around New Years Eve each year. That's usually a bit cheaper in PA because the state buys so damn much of it they can cut a great deal for the enormous quantity they purchase.

My biggest complaint is that the "discount" given to restaurants is useless. A "licensee" in PA has, with the permission of the Commonwealth "authority to dispense liquor, wine and malt or brewed beverages on weekdays and on Sundays during the hours provided by law (if you have a Sunday license) and to purchase liquor at a 'discount' at a Pennsylvania State Liquor store". The "discount" of 6% off any purchase invoice totalling over $50 is completely negated by the 7% sales tax. There's no incentive for restaurants or better pricing over "retail" so that once the wine bottle is priced on a wine list at 2.5-3 times the restaurant's price, it's astronomical. It's no wonder that the BYO culture is thriving in Philadelphia. Wine loving customers can eat great food and bring their own wine for a fraction of the cost most licensed restaurants would charge for the very same bottle. I realize this is the case with all BYO restaurants, but it seems more exaggerated here somehow, because of the initial price increase and because the PLCB is a self perpetuating agency, that has no incentive itself to move toward privatization, lest it commit suicide and put a lot of State civil servants out on the street. That markup not only provides those salaries and administrative costs, but puts a lot of dollars into the Commonwealth coffers.

The state of affairs has improved dramatically under Chairman Jonathan Newman. He's a bit of a wine aficionado himself, so he's consciously seeking out better products and cutting some pretty killer deals. The staff at the stores is better trained and the stores themselves are a lot more pleasant than they used to be. But it's never going to improve for restaurant buyers like myself and restaurant customers, until there's a better discount offered to purchasers for resale.

[mike volker]

The state stores work on a percentage most retail only dreams about. However, the new chairman has started a program that buys cheap from certain winerys and passes the savings on to the consumer called "Chairman's Selections",these come in at about half the price anywhere else. Other than that, its Moore bros, Total Wine, Canal's etc.. There's even a website devoted to finding a good price and selection called "Wine Shops for Pennsylvania" Refugees.

Best,

Mike

[Deidre Costello]

Hello thought I would chime in on this hope you don’t mind (being an insider and all). A few things that I wanted to add to this discussion in regards to the retail price. Let’s not forget that an 18% “emergency tax” (Johnstown Flood that was added and never repealed) is included in the shelf price of every bottle of wine and spirits. This goes directly to the State Treasury I guess you could call the 18% tax our ‘sin’ tax. The actual markup is closer to 30%. It would take an act of legislature to repeal the Emergency tax and not something that the ‘PLCB’ can do on it’s own. I also applaud what Jonathan Newman is doing in regards to playing what I call ‘hardball’ with producers and distributors making Pa’s prices in line or better than surrounding states. While I can’t deny that you may find certain products cheaper in surrounding states, not every product sold in surrounding states is cheaper! Pennsylvania continues to make huge strides especially with regards to wines. It is becoming less and less attractive to drive across state lines looking for a deal when Pa’s Premium Collection stores offer terrific values right here.

[glepore]

The Supreme Court is taking up the issue of interstate shipment this term, so that should be interesting, maybe lead to some change.

The "Flood Tax" is an abomination.

The Chairman's Selection buys are literally unbelievable at times. My only real remaining gripe is "house wine" pricing. As an example, I really like Monte Antico-a Tuscan red from a large winery with real character in good vintages-and its been my house wine for years. In Pa, its 12 or 13 bucks, rarely on sale for 9, no case discount, and often , due to the size of the supply pipeline, a vintage hits neighboring states months before here. I can get it in NJ for 8 bucks. The difference between a $100 case and a $150 case of an everday wine is significant-think of it as a bottle of Don Melchior, and it really burns ya.

Edited October 28, 2004 by glepore (log)