Eating in Kansai

[FoodZealot]

Wonderful stuff. Sounds like my kind of vacation - eating, shopping for food, taking pictures, eating... Thank you for sharing!

Those look like matsutake mushrooms. You've had those before, right? I've only had the ones from Oregon, which are delicious. They're mushroomy, of course, but with a complex topnote - almost like whiskey or brandy, IMHO. I'm surprised they weren't more prevalent in your meals.

[Muffin210]

"Those look like matsutake mushrooms. You've had those before, right? I've only had the ones from Oregon, which are delicious. They're mushroomy, of course, but with a complex topnote - almost like whiskey or brandy, IMHO. I'm surprised they weren't more prevalent in your meals." (FoodZealot)

Well, we did have small pieces of matsutake mushrooms, but I wonder if the super-expensive ones actually taste better, or if they just cost more because they are so rare. (Kind of like wondering if the $100 melons actually taste that much better than the $15 ones...)

"The Japanese word for chestnut is kuri but when it is used in sweets they use the French pronunciation of marron, thus it is easy to confuse it with melon..." (Torakris)

Oh, that makes so much more sense! I only knew the word "kuri" for chestnut so I couldn't figure it out. I never realized that the Japanese say "marron", and when they used it in otherwise English language sentences, I just assumed it was "melon"! My mistake...

I'm sorry to see all the damage (and loss of human life) from the latest typhoon. I guess all those foods (produce and fish, at least) will be more expensive for a while. Did any of our Japanese members suffer any injuries or damage to their homes?

One other thing we were impressed by was the number of sweet shops. As you can tell from the photos, we probably went to at least one or two a day! How often do people who live in Japan frequent these types of shops? Usually we were the only non-Japanese in them. Do people make their own matcha at home?

[torakris]

Oh, that makes so much more sense!  I only knew the word "kuri" for chestnut so I couldn't figure it out.  I never realized that the Japanese say "marron", and when they used it in otherwise English language sentences, I just assumed it was "melon"!  My mistake...

I'm sorry to see all the damage (and loss of human life) from the latest typhoon.  I guess all those foods (produce and fish, at least) will be more expensive for a while.  Did any of our Japanese members suffer any injuries or damage to their homes? 

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The Japanese use a lot of words that are not Japanese in origin like marron and don't really know the true country of origin, often falsely assuming they are English words.

This just happened in one of my English classes where all of my students assumed the word for questionnaire, (ankeeto アンケート) was English but it is actually from the French enquete.

information about egulleteers and typhoons damage can be found here:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=53996&hl=

[jschyun]

Muffin, can you give us an idea of what the prices were like? Naturally my attention is drawn towards the Kobe beef and sushi pictures, but I would be interested in finding out what the temple food cost and what you think in terms of price versus value.

[Hiroyuki]

One other thing we were impressed by was the number of sweet shops.  As you can tell from the photos, we probably went to at least one or two a day!  How often do people who live in Japan frequent these types of shops?  Usually we were the only non-Japanese in them.  Do people make their own matcha at home?

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That really depends on the person. In my case, I probably go to one of those shops two or three times a year, only to buy a gift before visiting someone.

As for mattcha, I never drink mattcha at home; I drink sencha only.

[torakris]

One other thing we were impressed by was the number of sweet shops.  As you can tell from the photos, we probably went to at least one or two a day!  How often do people who live in Japan frequent these types of shops?  Usually we were the only non-Japanese in them.  Do people make their own matcha at home?

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That really depends on the person. In my case, I probably go to one of those shops two or three times a year, only to buy a gift before visiting someone.

As for mattcha, I never drink mattcha at home; I drink sencha only.

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The only person I know who drinks "real" matcha at home is a fellow American friend...

As for the cake shops, I go about the same as Hiroyuki about 2 to 3 times a year... and I think most of my Japanese friends go about the same...

[Hiroyuki]

It's probably the high population density in Japan, especially in urban areas, that gives Muffin that impression.

[Muffin210]

Muffin, can you give us an idea of what the prices were like?  Naturally my attention is drawn towards the Kobe beef and sushi pictures, but I would be interested in finding out what the temple food cost and what you think in terms of price versus value.

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Hmmm, that's an interesting question. The prices for the ryokan (Tamahan in Kyoto) and temple (Shojoshin-in on Koya-san) included two meals (dinner and breakfast), so I'm not sure how much a similar meal at a restaurant would be. Perhaps the Japanese members can provide an estimate for an equivalent kaiseki meal and a temple meal?

Okay, I am looking through my receipts to find some prices... About value: I think I came away feeling that I had received excellent value for the money. For example, last year I went to a conference on Oahu and stayed at the conference hotel -- it cost a lot and the accomodations and service weren't particularly great (plus our "non-smoking" room was totally smoky). I feel that, for an equivalent amount of money, one night in a ryokan was a much better value than two or three nights in that big Hawaiian hotel. And I liked that the room prices were all you had to pay -- no worrying about additional taxes or tips or food charges. The restaurants, too -- at least if your meal price is expensive, you know that it's the final amount. No one will expect a tip, or try to push "sparkling or flat?" on you.

The yudofu dinner at Junsei (famous for its tofu; it also has a beautiful garden), for three people (including one bottle of sake), was 13,300 yen. It was a lot of food -- we couldn't finish it all, even though it was "only" tofu.

We had an amazing shabu-shabu meal in Kyoto that I did not photograph (forgot the darn camera that night!). This was at the Isetan branch (is there anything you CAN'T find at Isetan? See Sinbad's thread here: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=54063 , plus a lot of the take-out food on my photo website was from Isetan) of an apparently famous beef restaurant in Kyoto called Morita-ya. For shabu-shabu and suki-yaki, the prices per person for the various grades of beef were:

Special Selection (what we tried): 7,875 yen

Matsu: 6,090 yen

Take: 5,040 yen

Ume: 3,990 yen

The price included an enormous amount of food other than beef, such as a variety of vegetables and mushrooms, tofu and yuba, kudzu noodles, fat white noodles (like udon with elephantiasis!...I don't remember what they're called), mochi, pickles, miso soup, rice, fruit, and some other items which I can't remember now. I wish I had my camera because it was a thing of beauty!

According to the Morita-ya menu, the price for steak ("fillet or sirloin") is:

250g: 10,500 yen

200g: 8,400 yen

170g: 7,140 yen

150g: 6,090 yen

I'm not good at estimating how much our thin slices of beef for shabu-shabu weighed.

Of course, we also ate a lot of more reasonable, everyday food like okonomiyaki and ramen, which aren't too expensive. And for matcha plus one sweet I think the prices were typically around 600-650 yen per set.

Another question for our Japanese members: since we were across the street from Isetan, that's the only department store we went to. How do the food offerings vary among the department store? Is any one store felt to have better offerings or prices?

[torakris]

Another question for our Japanese members:  since we were across the street from Isetan, that's the only department store we went to.  How do the food offerings vary among the department store?  Is any one store felt to have better offerings or prices?

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Pretty much if you have been to one department store basement you have been to them all, I don7t think there is too much difference, a lot of them even have the same stores....

[Phish]

WOW!! Great photo's Muffin!! I love the vending machines too... especially on a cold winter afternoon when you can get a hot can of red bean drink!!

May i try my luck on the mystery dish?? I'm a novice in Japanese dish... but it seems to me like something fried (this im very sure)! Would you mind explaining to me if it's as sweet as a fig or is it savoury? How about the texture and colour? Maybe then we can sort of figure out what exactly it is!

=) HTH

[smallworld]

Very nice pictures, Muffin.

My guess for the mystery dish: yurine (lily root). Perhaps, as Phish said, deep fried and then simmered in dashi.

[growpower]

Yah!! After much calling, we finally found hotel space in Kyoto for Nov. I know, I know, we are crazy to go with all the crowds, but we really wanted to see if the fall colors are as breathtaking as everyone says they are. We are night busing it, so we'll be there from morning of Nov 19th to the evening of Nov 23rd, four days.

With lodging out of the way, can anyone suggest any not to miss places for eating? We have one kaisei meal scheduled with our hotel already, and probably have the budget for another fancy dinner, doesn't have to be kaisei, just japanese (prob no more than 10000Yen per person). Other than that, we are pretty much going to go cheap( no more than 2000yen per person). I hear kyoto is famous for its tofu, right?

Also, if there are any not to miss places (esp the ones that are not on the usual tourist to do list, please let me know too).

-thanks

Edited November 1, 2004 by growpower (log)

[Muffin210]

We just got back a couple weeks ago from Kyoto (see my earlier thread!) and if you're looking for a special tofu restaurant, consider Junsei. It was about $120 for three of us (including a bottle of sake) for a fancy tofu tasting menu (very filling...you'd be surprised). Plus, the restaurant has lovely grounds, with a beautiful garden and different buildings for dining (depending on what you eat). I think it is a pretty famous restaurant in Kyoto. Here is their website: http://www.to-fu.co.jp

The earlier thread has the link to my photos, so you can wade through and find the ones of our Junsei meal!

Have a great trip -- there is so much to see and eat in Kyoto! If you like Japanese tea, make sure to take the short trip to Uji city...it has the oldest tea shop in the country, and you can participate in a traditional tea ceremony for only about $5 per person!

[tjdnewyork]

Hi,

I'm on a trip in Osaka and wondering about a kind of restaurant called kappo (or kappou?) . The skybar in my hotel (Righa Royal) has a kappo place that got me interested in this kind of restaurant, even though the quality of the hotel place is not great.

I found two places that look interesting:

Masuda

http://travel2.nytimes.com/mem/travel/arti...757C0A9679C8B63

Asai

http://itc.uci.edu/~rgarfias/japan-2003/kansai-info.html

Anyone been to these places? Furthermore can anybody help to explain a little more about this type of restaurant and possibly make a recommendation for a kappo place in Osaka?

I'm with a Japanese speaker so it's okay if the place only has a Japanese menu, etc.

Thanks.

Edited January 4, 2005 by tjdnewyork (log)

[Hiroyuki]

Furthermore can anybody help to explain a little more about this type of restaurant

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I can respond to this part of your question only. The original meaning of kappou is simply cooking. Kappou is spelled 割烹 in Chinese characters, the first character of which means to cut and the second to simmer. But the word has come to mean 'real' Japanese cooking. One person defines kappou jokingly as the 'face-to-face selling of dishes' (at the counter), but that style of serving dishes is not unique to kappou restaurants.

And there are itamae kappou (itamae = chef), taishuu kappou (taishuu = ordinary people), and kappou ryokan (ryokan = inn).

[Kiem Hwa]

A cool link about various special foods from regions in Kansai:

http://www.kansai.gr.jp/culture_e/syoku/um...mono_index.html

[torakris]

probably too late for your trip....

but I found this great article on itamae kappo

[easternsun]

i am hoping to hear some comments on xex west in osaka.

specifically, how is the food? portion sizes? ambiance? prices?

planning a girlie dinner out and dont want anything too "romantic table for twoish" or too quiet.

thanks!

[torakris]

well if it anything similar to xex Daikanyama, the original shop, I don't think I would recommend it.

Unfortunately, the good seats are exclusively for Xex members. The riffraff sit by the door. Becoming an elite guest will set you back an initial ¥30,000, plus a monthly membership fee of ¥7,000. Curiously, that's the exact amount of discount vouchers you receive; i.e. come often enough and it's a cost-free deal. But even the cheap seats are peachy out here.

Xex is the Noah's Ark of drinking establishments; customers turn up two by two. Wooden lounges are lined up in pairs facing the water with flickering lanterns casting a romantic glow as the house singer belts out Barry White covers and moody jazz classics. Not surprisingly, champagnes outnumber beers on the menu fivefold.

the rest of the article from Metropolis

[Kiem Hwa]

A link discussing various cuisines from all the prefectures in Kansai:

http://www.kansai.gr.jp/KansaiWindowhtml/C...ryCode_002.html

[peter_nyc]

Does anybody have any suggestions for a wonderful kaiseki meal in Kyoto?

edit: spelling

Edited March 9, 2005 by peter_nyc (log)

[torakris]

Does anybody have any suggestions for a wonderful kaiseki meal in Kyoto?

edit: spelling

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what time of year?

and is price an object?

[peter_nyc]

mid-April. let's pretend not, so long as it's worth it :)

[peter_nyc]

Actaully... I might as well ask: If you were to allow yourself one lavish kaiseki meal in either Tokyo or Kyoto, where would it be? (I'll be in both but assumed that Kyoto would be the more economical choice).

And is there a difference between traditionoal kaiseki and kyoto-style kaiseki meals?

Thanks!!

[torakris]

One of the most famous kaiseki places in Kyoto is Hyotei.

some info in English

Japanese homepage

The reason I ask the time of year is that the scenery is sometimes the best part of the meal. During the summer in Kyoto some restaurnants open up platforms over rivers and Kyoto is also very famous for its autumn scenery. Early mid April you might still be able to see the sakura (cherry blossoms) by later in the month they will be gone.