Jean Georges and Nougatine 2005 - 2008

[Sneakeater]

Noodling around on the internet, I get the feeling they mean "slow roasted," or at least "slow cooked."

[gaf]

bitter caramel custard with grapefruit confit

I'm showing my ignorance, but I thought "confit" meant "cooked in its own fat." There is no fat in grapefruit, so what does "grapefruit confit" mean?

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Oh well, you're right. I meant that it was a compote, not a confit. But grapefruit confit is evocative.

[Sneakeater]

There is no doubt in my mind that, the week before last, my skate schnitzel (a member of the ray family) was accompanied by something the menu called a "meyer lemon confit" at Cafe Gray.

[Sneakeater]

See also: http://www.epicureantable.com/recipes/O/onionconfit.htm

http://www.globalgourmet.com/food/special/...urn/confit.html

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/re...6_11045,00.html

So, my prior (inaccurate) post notwithstanding, these are sort of like what we'd recognize as confits, except they aren't cooked or jarred "in their own fat" (not having any).

Edited May 26, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[chefboy24]

bitter caramel custard with grapefruit confit

I'm showing my ignorance, but I thought "confit" meant "cooked in its own fat." There is no fat in grapefruit, so what does "grapefruit confit" mean?

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confit actually means, strictly, literally "preserved"

like confiture is "preserves" like jam, a fruit jam, etc.

with citrus, you can confit the zest, or the flesh, if you cure the citrus flesh in salt, it would make it dried out and dehydrated looking.

Edited May 26, 2006 by chefboy24 (log)

[Nathan]

as you seemed to ascertain as well...

to me (as I've written on several occasions) that simple egg, creme fraiche and caviar dish is to me the most perfect foodstuff ever composed (and I say that as a man who doesn't like egg dishes)....

of course, I have friends who find anything that simple..."boring"...but we can't all be minimalists (and Jean-Georges can be that or Bouley when he wants to...I daresay he could be Wylie too)...

[chefboy24]

sorry guys no pictures but

i went to jean georges for my birthday on monday... had a wonderful time.

we were a party of 3, and 2 of us had arrived first. whlie i waited at the bar in nougatine, i couldn't help but notice the age of the front of house staff working the dining room. young young young. like 24. i recognized a sommelier i had worked with in the past, and my dining companion was a host at jean georges a few months prior, so i think it's safe to say we got received pretty well.

great table....table 6, by the way, its all the way in the back near the windows and the exit to the kitchen. you have a full view of everyone and everything in the dining room.

the captain approached..... nice guy, but sort of ostentatious and stiff. he presented the wine list by itself and offered cocktails.... which i'm not so sure i think is the best way to do it these days.

my reasoning lately is that i pick first sparkling white or red. then i pick a price point.

so i knew i was in the $100-$120 range, for whites. i had my eye on a premier cru chablis, an alsace blend from zind, some cali chardonnays, etc.

but i really had no idea what was on the menu (since jean georges doesn't ever post his menus online or anywhere).

i went with the chablis. can't remember the producer, but it was 1er cru from the fourchaume. super floral, really pure chardonnay fruit, green melony, definite minerality. delicious.

the captain didn't ask me if i wanted the wine on the table or on ice, it sort of went on ice by default, which is a pet peeve of mine...as we were drinking that wine slowly....chablis at 32 degrees isn't exactly delious.

the amuse landed, it was interesting to say the least. "chef recommends" you move from right to left, from the strawberry soup in the shot glass, to the fluke sashimi with chili powder, to the cucumber salad on the spoon. my impressions: the strawberry soup was delish. you could not taste the fluke at all because of the chili powder.... and the cucumber salad tasted like any $5 hijiki salad at any run of the mill sushi place...which is not to say it was great, but, i was not impressed.

there was a long wait until the first course, where i watched the waiters move around a lot. they're very cold and robotic. some of them i watched talk about the menu with guests, some were good, but overall, very stiff movements. my honest impression was "jesus, i could work here." then i realized, "oh my god, they're scared to move."

i went very french with my ordering. it seit seems that the dishes at jean georges are very classic french or very asian influenced. you can avoid the asian influence almost 100% if you like, which i did. i started with asparagus and morels. perfectly uniform, perfectly cooked, beautiful color, beautiful job peeling, hot. the morels were bound with a warm hollandaise with shallots and garlic and rested on top of the asparagus. perfection.

a friend of mine had hamachi with grapefruit sorbet and coriander. i didn't try it but she said it was a miss.

then i had the classic turbot with chateau chalon sauce. i believe this dish had been on the menu for at least 5 years. you can see it above in gaf's post. he didn't get a "triangular filet", he got the "tail end" piece, which is less preferable visually, but still delicious, even tho it is likely to cook less even. i got a very square pave cut, i believe. gorgeous. perfect textbook small dice of zuchini and tomato. the sauce was divine, i was scooping it up with a sauce spoon. if no one was looking i swear i would have licked the plate.

chateau chalon, as it turns out, is a vin jaune, made from the savagnin grape, its very golden, aged in oak for 6 years, very rich, spicy, alcoholic, from the jura region. it was basically reduced and then the sauce was made from that wine like a beurre blanc, a golden beurre blanc. wow, i'm still talking about this sauce. okay, that's how good it was.

for the third course i had char. char's very close to salmon, very fatty, rich, not fishy. i think they removed the skin, a square cut, and must have deep fried it, or at least pan fried it to get it extra crispy. then they spiked it straight up vertically in the char, resting on top. it was almost too salty, but so good, it brought tears to my eyes. there were porcinis as well. no sauce, no starch, no green vege. delicious.

i ended up taking home some of my friends beef tenderloin, enjoyed it in the morning. they carve the beef tenderloin tableside, which is interesting, because its basically a medallion alrready cooked, and they slice it for you tableside. it was served on beautifully small and perfectly split in half "charred" baby fava beans. i didnt see or taste the char. there was an insanely perfect brunoise of parmigiano reggiano tossed with the favas as well.. you could tell the mise en place for the favas and parm for the tenderloin probably took hours. i ate the doggie bag in the morning, still delicious.

the desserts are very complex. there were four themes: chocolate, rhubarb, strawberry and something else. each theme has four desserts in it, so essentially chocolate 4 ways, rhubarb 4 ways, etc etc. i'm not a pastry cook so i can't really talk about them, but i was stuffed and veyr happy at that point.

i also had a birthday cake made for me by johnny the pastry chef, which was insane. however, the cake imploded when they started to slice, so they could only save 3 pieces, which they served with spearmint and chocolate chip ice cream quenelles. i think they comped desserts because the birthday cake fell apart?

also the drinks from the bar never got transfered on to the chcek? i'm not complaining.

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and someone needs to teach everyone that brunoise, vichysoisse, epoisse, and nicoise are pronounced SWAZZZ, not SWAH. PLEASE SOMEONE DO IT BEFORE I LOSE MY MIND. i couldn't help but think "i'm at jean georges, and this captain can't pronounce brunoise correctly."

******************(/end rant)

the petit fours were insane. 3 different kinds of maccaroons. a calvacade of chocolate things. and a big glass jar of marshmellow loops appeared, where some server actually snipped marshmellows into squares, to order. snazzy.

great meal. $500 for 3.

lasting impression "everyone here is young and this is something i could do myself." i would definitely return.

and although i finished dinner at midnight, i woke up at 5:30 having to run to the bathroom with some emergency bowel situation, which i had to do again at 7:30 and then again at 10 am when i got to work the next day.

....hmmm

[Sneakeater]

I feel ridiculous purporting to give you of all people wine advice, but I've got to say that that Alcase blend by Zind is currently one of my very favorites. I now order it whenever I see it.

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and someone needs to teach everyone that brunoise, vichysoisse, epoisse, and nicoise are pronounced SWAZZZ, not SWAH.  PLEASE SOMEONE DO IT BEFORE I LOSE MY MIND.  i couldn't help but think "i'm at jean georges, and this captain can't pronounce brunoise correctly."

******************(/end rant)

Glad to see that someone else is as anal and irritable as me.

and although i finished dinner at midnight, i woke up at 5:30 having to run to the bathroom with some emergency bowel situation, which i had to do again at 7:30 and then again at 10 am when i got to work the next day.

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Although that isn't the way I meant.

[chefboy24]

I feel ridiculous purporting to give you of all people wine advice, but I've got to say that that Alcase blend by Zind is currently one of my very favorites.  I now order it whenever I see it.

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and someone needs to teach everyone that brunoise, vichysoisse, epoisse, and nicoise are pronounced SWAZZZ, not SWAH.  PLEASE SOMEONE DO IT BEFORE I LOSE MY MIND.  i couldn't help but think "i'm at jean georges, and this captain can't pronounce brunoise correctly."

******************(/end rant)

Glad to see that someone else is as anal and irritable as me.

and although i finished dinner at midnight, i woke up at 5:30 having to run to the bathroom with some emergency bowel situation, which i had to do again at 7:30 and then again at 10 am when i got to work the next day.

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Although that isn't the way I meant.

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haha. cheers! yeah whatever zind humbrecht is doing, i'm loving. i think he's biodynamic. blends a lot. isnt afraid of a little sweetness. full round rich stuff.

[Sneakeater]

isnt afraid of a little sweetness.  full round rich stuff.

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Right right right. That's EXACTLY it.

Contrary to what Eric Azimov said in the Times today about reds, off-dry whites go fantastically well with foods of many kinds. Unfortunately, the sweetness scares off certain serious wine drinkers.

[ulterior epicure]

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and someone needs to teach everyone that brunoise, vichysoisse, epoisse, and nicoise are pronounced SWAZZZ, not SWAH.  PLEASE SOMEONE DO IT BEFORE I LOSE MY MIND.  i couldn't help but think "i'm at jean georges, and this captain can't pronounce brunoise correctly."

******************(/end rant)

Really? Do people actually pronounce those words with SWAH??? Epwah cheese?

u.e.

[Sneakeater]

Oh god yeah. I'd say I hear, say, "neeswah" about five times more often than I hear "neeswazz".

[emsny]

Oh god yeah.  I'd say I hear, say, "neeswah" about five times more often than I hear "neeswazz".

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Of course, sometimes it IS "neeswah", when attached to a masculine noun.

[Megan Blocker]

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and someone needs to teach everyone that brunoise, vichysoisse, epoisse, and nicoise are pronounced SWAZZZ, not SWAH.  PLEASE SOMEONE DO IT BEFORE I LOSE MY MIND.  i couldn't help but think "i'm at jean georges, and this captain can't pronounce brunoise correctly."

******************(/end rant)

Really? Do people actually pronounce those words with SWAH??? Epwah cheese?

u.e.

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Which is actually ay-pwass, since it has two s's, not one. I love it when people try to pronounce French in the wrong way...I'd so much rather hear an Americanized brun-waz than something that makes you sound like you're trying to look like you know more than you do.

great meal. $500 for 3.

lasting impression "everyone here is young and this is something i could do myself." i would definitely return.

Such a good deal, isn't it? Sounds like an awesome night!

Edited July 26, 2006 by Megan Blocker (log)

[MobyP]

With a few exceptions, I had just an awful dinner here in mid August. It's the kind of meal that you leave the table feeling midly resentful over, and by the time you reach home, you're ready to do some serious griping. We shared the two tasting menus, one classic and the other seasonal. Overall, the dishes were entirely unbalanced, from the famous caper/raisin vinagrette (which tasted as if it had the addition of a spoonfull of hot mustard to carry it through), to a stupid use of miso sorbet with (I think) a sea trout that was far too strong (so strong, the waitress warned us not to eat too much of it, for goodness sake); a use of chili that you would expect in a bad mexican restaurant - so much that we ended up sending back a veal dish that was overwhelmed by it - and a use of curry powder that overwhelmed a squab dish - which we also sent back mostly uneaten. Vinagrettes had too much acid. The wine sauces had a harshness of uncooked wine. It goes on. Chili used in one course stayed in the palate through the next, destroying any (optimistically longed for) subtlety.

Stand out dishes of the evening were:

A charred corn ravioli with fresh tomatoes and corn - generally very good, but also unbalanced vinagrette which was far too strong.

The foie brulee was much fun, served with strawberries, though the flavour of the foie ran short - as it did in Craft the night before - unlike imo the best European examples.

Neither of the fish dishes merit a mention, and neither were 3 star Michelin quality in the slightest. The turbot was a sliver - less than half an inch thick - though not over cooked, it was hard to see the point of it. The sauce, my (exceptionally well dined) companion said, had the harshness of uncooked alcohol. I found it monochromatic in flavour.

Also the meat dishes - which as I mention above, we sent back pretty much uneaten. Tasteless veal, approximating the correct texture, overwhelmed by chili. The squab had the after taste of 'Asian Spices' that had all the subtlety of a cheap curry house. The foie couldn't come close to saving it. Again, we sent it back.

The garlic soup with the frogs legs was pretty good, but again out of balance.

The summer poached egg with caviar and cucumber foam was light and a bit empty of substance. I enjoyed the JG egg, but didn't find it the revelation I was expecting. It seemed like the sum of its components, rather than anything greater.

The desserts too - though showing intelligence, there wasn't a single one that was a more than a clever bistro dish, and certainly not a three star knockout.

Even the mignardises were odd - I found the mini macarons to be sickly sweet. The grapefruit and vanilla marshmallows were almost identical in flavour.

And Jean Georges was in the kitchen this night. A really intolerable meal. In both conception, materials and execution, the Craft meal the night before was just much, much superior.

[docsconz]

Wow, certainly disappointing and very surprising. I have had a few of those dishes before and based on my experience with the dishes we have had in common, the dishes are not inherently flawed, in fact I thought they were quite excellent. It sounds as if they had an off night, which is not much consolation when the cost of the meal is what it is.

[kkwchan]

Need advice... Daniel (Skybox), Le Bernardin, WD50, and Jean-George.

I only have 3 dinners and 1 lunch available. How should I allocate?

I think Skybox and WD50 are only available for dinner.

I have been to Fat Duck and Pierre Gagnaire and I like them both a lot. Is WD50 comparable?

Can I order tasting menu during lunch time at JGeorge or LBernardin?

Thank you

Edited September 4, 2006 by kkwchan (log)

[docsconz]

Need advice... Daniel (Skybox), Le Bernardin, WD50, and Jean-George.

I only have 3 dinners and 1 lunch available.  How should I allocate?

I think Skybox and WD50 are only available for dinner.

I have been to Fat Duck and Pierre Gagnaire and I like them both a lot.  Is WD50 comparable? 

Can I order tasting menu during lunch time at JGeorge or LBernardin?

Thank you

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Look through this thread to see what lunch can be like at J-G. There is no question in my mind that that is your best option for lunch. It also happens to be a great deal.

I have not eaten at The Fat Duck, but was disappointed one year ago at Pierre Gagnaire. I love WD-50, however, it is nothing like Gagnaire. At Gagnaire the setting is much more formal and elegant and the food much more complicated in presentation. The food at WD-50 is complicated in conception, but relatively minimalist in presentation with very clean lines and flavors. If you are interested in hypermodern cuisine, WD-50 is the best example and possibly the only pure example in New York City for dinner. The cuisine is unique. Most who eat there love it. Some do not.

[ulterior epicure]

With a few exceptions, I had just an awful dinner here in mid August.

MobyP,

Gee, that's sad to hear!! I've enjoyed both of my meals at JG NYC immensely. About the same time you were having dinner at the Trump Tower, I was over on the other-side of the world enjoying JG at 3 on the Bund. (You can find my posting on eG about the meal here.)

We were told that the JG Tasting was the identical to the one in NYC, however the Seasonal was considerably different - which is what accounts for the dishes you mentioned that I was unfamiliar with (thankfully, since those are the ones you seem to not care for).

I did, however, have the squab and the turbot. In fact, I had eaten them at JG NYC in March. Both, at the time (a lunch service) were spectacular (I believe I posted my meal upthread). I tasted my guest's in Shanghai. While the plating in Shanghai (across the board) was sloppier than in NYC, the flavors were largely the same. I didn't get the "cheap curry" taste that you experienced (thank goodness). I rather liked it and thought it was appropriately seasoned/flavored. I especially appreciated the preserved lemon wedge.

The turbot was also very good in both restaurants. I will admit that the portion on the dinner tasting was quite small.

That being said, I think that you and I agree on the cuisses de grenouilles and spring garlic soup - very good.

I happen to be a big fan of sour/vinegary flavors, so the the high acidic note that you seem to dislike suits me very well - which, I'm pretty certain, also accounts for my enthusiasm for Vongerichten's creations.

Again, I'm sorry to hear your disappointment. I hope there'll be a "next time" and that it'll be much better then.

u.e.

[Nathan]

Do your lunch at JG (though a dinner would certainly be great as well)...its the best restaurant in NY (except for possibly Per Se and Ducasse which I have not been to).

WD is similar to FD and PG in that it is "hypermodern" but it is nowhere near as formal.

Alinea in Chicago is probably much more comparable to FD or PG.

Edited September 5, 2006 by Nathan (log)

[MobyP]

Hey, u.e. I don't think this is a case of not liking acids and - as a culinary aesthetic - the use of vinagrettes etc. I think these dishes were so out of balance that I'm relatively confident you would have had a similar reaction to my own. You can taste in a vinagrette if the cook has overdone the acids against the fats - and in the right circumstances this can be really appealing - like the peruvian green sauce (chimichurri?) used by Nobu with certain sashimi (or with putrified shark meat, or boot leather for that matter), or a good mojo with roast pork. This was different. The acids were so over done they were killing the flavour of the proteins. The 'Asian Spices' were killing the flavour of the squab or pidgeon. The heat/chilli was taking all flavour away from the veal (which frankly when I wiped away the sauce I didn't think had much to begin with).

Interestingly I had a version of the scallop caper raisin vinagrette made by JGV's ex-head chef in London, and it was excellent - and all about balance. The NY example was abhorrent. And the scallop was cooked with very little sensitivity.

There are people I respect (u.e. - you included) who swear by the lunch option.

Doc - The Fat Duck performs with incredible consistency. The dishes change at a glacial pace. It's unlikely you would be disappointed. In contrast Gagnaire can change everything between a lunch and dinner service, and you often need 2 or 3 meals there to get how appallingly brilliant he can be. I was lucky. I had only one (my first post ever on eG, I think), half the dishes of which were life-changeingly good.

[kkwchan]

Oh, what about Gramercy Tavern? Should I consider dropping one of the other four and do GT lunch or dinner instead?? And is there a big difference between their Tavern and Main Dining room? Thanks

Edited September 5, 2006 by kkwchan (log)

[ned]

Hey, u.e. I don't think this is a case of not liking acids and - as a culinary aesthetic - the use of vinagrettes etc. I think these dishes were so out of balance that I'm relatively confident you would have had a similar reaction to my own. You can taste in a vinagrette if the cook has overdone the acids against the fats - and in the right circumstances this can be really appealing - like the peruvian green sauce (chimichurri?) used by Nobu with certain sashimi (or with putrified shark meat, or boot leather for that matter), or a good mojo with roast pork. This was different. The acids were so over done they were killing the flavour of the proteins. The 'Asian Spices' were killing the flavour of the squab or pidgeon. The heat/chilli was taking all flavour away from the veal (which frankly when I wiped away the sauce I didn't think had much to begin with).

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I am glad to hear someone writing this. I had the exact same experience almost a year ago. The way I thought about it was that each individual part on the plate was excellently executed but as a whole, nothing we ate came together. It was as if all the cooks were using recipes of weights and measures but nobody was tasting and adjusting the final products. This was especially true of a sweetbread dish with licorice powder. An exception was frogs legs in garlic broth which was near to sublime.

Edited September 5, 2006 by ned (log)

[docsconz]

Doc - The Fat Duck performs with incredible consistency. The dishes change at a glacial pace. It's unlikely you would be disappointed. In contrast Gagnaire can change everything between a lunch and dinner service, and you often need 2 or 3 meals there to get how appallingly brilliant he can be. I was lucky. I had only one (my first post ever on eG, I think), half the dishes of which were life-changeingly good.

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Moby, I have no doubt that Gagnaire's cooking can be sublime. I could see the technical vrtuosity on my plate. Unfortunately, to me the balance of flavors in my mouth was quite unappealing as it was skewed heavily towards the bitter end of the spectrum. It was our bad fortune that he favored that approach on that particular evening. Needless to say, I was incredibly disappointed, much as you were with J-G. Even the best places cannot thrill one hundred per cent of their customers one hundred per cent of the time. Nevertheless, the basis of your criticism of J-G is different than mine of P.G. and I am surprised by it.

Edited September 5, 2006 by docsconz (log)

[kkwchan]

[Look through this thread to see what lunch can be like at J-G. There is no question in my mind that that is your best option for lunch. It also happens to be a great deal.

I have not eaten at The Fat Duck, but was disappointed one year ago at Pierre Gagnaire. I love WD-50, however, it is nothing like Gagnaire. At Gagnaire the setting is much more formal and elegant and the food much more complicated in presentation. The food at WD-50 is complicated in conception, but relatively minimalist in presentation with very clean lines and flavors. If you are interested in hypermodern cuisine, WD-50 is the best example and possibly the only pure example in New York City for dinner. The cuisine is unique. Most who eat there love it. Some do not.

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Thanks docsconz, we had our lunch at JG. It was very good and not expensive at all. The egg in egg is unbelievable. WD50 is quite special too... but the restaurant is more casual than I thought. And as you said, it is a simpler version of Gagnaire and Fat Duck.