Eat France.

[yellow truffle]

I need some help finding restaurants in France. Well actually my friend is the one who needs it. He will be spending his first anniversary doing an art and architectural death march in France and Switzerland and he has asked me for some advise on where to eat. As I know little about European restaurants, I thought some of you can help me.

Paris recommendations would be for two dinners. One would be a traditional French three star restaurant, such as Taillevent or Tour d'Argent. The other an avant garde/fusion/experimental type restaurant, such as an El Bulli (Spain) or a Fat Duck (UK). Money is not a main concern. Having one of the most memorable experiences is.

Any other eating or drinking recommendations would also help out, this would be a lower key establishment (read budget friendly, but something that would also be memorable). The four days in Paris will be spent going to: Maison De Verre, Foundation Cartier, Rue de Meaux Housing, LeCorbusier Office, Foundation LeCorbusier, Musee Picasso, UNESCO Headquarters, Beauborg/Brancusi Studio, Musee D'Orsay, Musee Picasso.

And lastly three more days in France before going to Switzerland. L'Arbresle (Tour LaTourette, Lyon Opera), Ferminy-Vert (Tour Gymnasim, Church Under Construction, Natatorium, Unite d'Habitacion), Belfort/Senans (Saltworks - Arc et Senans, Notre Dame du Haut Chapel).

Thank you in advance for any comments, links or articles.

[menton1]

I think your questions are so generalized that you will find many, many answers and opinions just by browsing through these France forums.

(Love the way you identified Chicago!!)

[yellow truffle]

I think your questions are so generalized that you will find many, many answers and opinions just by browsing through these France forums.

Yes, true, in fact I am doing that right now. But things change. Opinions change. I'm looking to get the latest info.

I do not think this is so generalized. I specified locations in Paris and throughout France. Sure there many threads that discuss restaurants in these locations, as there are many guide books that can give you recommendations on where to eat. But to have everything in one location (one thread), would be extremely helpful. Thanx.

(Love the way you identified Chicago!!) 

Thank you.

[Bux]

Allow me to start with a smile as this comes hard on the heels of my replying in two threads on the pros and cons of recommending one's favorite restaurants. Menton's reply is quite valid in many ways. Choosing the proper restaurant is a highly specialized task. I vacillate on the subject, but at the moment I'm convinced that the universal recommendations made in the general tourist guide books suit no one in particular and that the restaurants named are usually ruined within months of publication. In a way I'm saying that the most recommended restaurants are the ones often best avoided. I'm also saying that given the love and interest of food I sense in your description of your friends, these are the same restaurants I'd recommend.

Among the things I vacillate about are whether or not everyone should eat at a three star restaurant at least once in their life. Oddly enough when I espouse this position, it's generally because I don't want to sound like a snob. Deep down in my core, I suspect I harbor a belief that no one should eat in a three star restaurant unless they know exactly why they picked that one and only after they've got the dining experience to appreciate the schtick of a three star restaurant. I feel the same way about stepping into a professional prize fighting ring. Those who do, generally find it a rewarding experience as long as they're fully prepared. For the rest, it might not be worth the money. Of course the money flows in a different direction, but there's a relationship. According to legend, one very well trained epicure took seven visits to understand and appreciate the food at a particular three star restaurant in Paris. Is your friend prepared to do the research or is he willing to part with the money in order to have just had the experience.?

Let me quote from another thread.

Comment se faire passer pour un critique gastronomique sans rien y connaître.

François Simon : Éditions Albin Michel SA 2001, 342 pages (currently unavailable new on Amazon.fr). 

An American publisher might title it “The Dummies Guide to French Restaurants,” but my summary would be something like “How to pick a restaurant, eat well, avoid pitfalls and enjoy yourself.”  It is written as if for a wannabe critic, but 99% applies to us all.

In this drôle, perceptive and entertaining book, François Simon, ex of Gault & Millau, now at Le Figaro, gives 50 lessons for “being well treated in a restaurant.”  He uses three modes of communication: some humorous instruction, bitingly incisive incidents and reviews of real places structured much as he does in Figaro Entreprises, e.g. Should I go?, Is it expensive?

For me, the book started slowly and didn’t pick up speed until Lesson #7, so if you want to skip ahead, be my guest.  Otherwise I’ll march you through the beginning.

Lesson #1: How to choose a restaurant?

Don’t dream the impossible dream, be realistic, patient (he recounts Jeffrey Steingarten’s seven trips to L’Arpège before understanding why it had 3 stars), accepting of imperfection and you’ll be rewarded.

….

←

There is so much literature on eating and dining in Paris and so much of it is written and published in English that there's no excuse for even a first time visitor to approach the subject uninformed unless it's really not a serious concern. When I first visited Paris there as only one way to eat and all one had to do is choose one's price point. Even "ethnic" restaurants generally followed the formal French standards of a meal. Today the range of possibilities has blossomed. There are restaurants of all types. Even the "French" restaurants no longer take a rigid form and there's no reason for anyone to eat in the wrong place. As Menton suggests, we have no way of knowing what will please your friends and all we can offer is our choices. In doing so, we may be sending the wrong person to our places and depriving the right person of a table as well as not really serving your friends. As Menton also suggests, many good suggestions have already been made in these pages and we've probably already answered this question better the first time it was asked than we are likely to again.

[robert brown]

Yellow Truffle, think of it this way. There's one three-star restaurant in Paris that has Mr. Grand Tour's name on it. The probelm is that he has to be lucky enough to hit on it. It could be Arpege, Gagnaire, Lucas-Carton or Ledoyen,etc. But if he is indeed lucky, he will know it before the meal is finished. It's called having an epiphany. It's what happened to me when on my first tour gastronomique, still wet behind the ears, I made the completely uninformed choice of going to Restaurant Alain Chapel. I knew I had had the best meal of my young life, and no restaurant from that day on ever supplanted it. I am talking about the 16 years Chapel was alive since then and hundreds of meals all over France. So when you know it, you know. Your gut tells you literally and figuratively. Of course there are restaurants where you, for whatever reason, are not able to take good measure of it on the first visit. But the right selection both in the restaurant and the individual dishes should make the visit memorable. A little research into the general nature of a restaurant's cuisine might be useful along with digging up (on eGullet, especially) certain hard facts such as only order a la carte at Gagnaire or the lobster in yellow wine at Arpege; that kind of information. But to pass up the opportunity and being needlessly victimized by a culinary Catch-22 because you have no experience or practical knowledge isn't intelligent.

[Suzi Edwards]

Let me quote from another thread.

Comment se faire passer pour un critique gastronomique sans rien y connaître.

François Simon : Éditions Albin Michel SA 2001, 342 pages (currently unavailable new on Amazon.fr). 

An American publisher might title it “The Dummies Guide to French Restaurants,” but my summary would be something like “How to pick a restaurant, eat well, avoid pitfalls and enjoy yourself.”  It is written as if for a wannabe critic, but 99% applies to us all.

In this drôle, perceptive and entertaining book, François Simon, ex of Gault & Millau, now at Le Figaro, gives 50 lessons for “being well treated in a restaurant.”  He uses three modes of communication: some humorous instruction, bitingly incisive incidents and reviews of real places structured much as he does in Figaro Entreprises, e.g. Should I go?, Is it expensive?

….

←

There is so much literature on eating and dining in Paris and so much of it is written and published in English that there's no excuse for even a first time visitor to approach the subject uninformed unless it's really not a serious concern.

←

Can someone direct me to any of these books that you mention? Does anyone have a reading list for the budding gourmet?

Confession: I had the tasting menu at Gagnaire. I know I can't really show my face on this board...but can anyone make any recommendations? The book that's quoted above, is it available in English? Or do I need to brush up my French?

[John Talbott]

The book that's quoted above, is it available in English? Or do I need to brush up my French?

It is unavailable in English or in French right now.

This from Amazon.fr "Actuellement indisponible"

But I did a Book note on it in English here and a couple of others by Pudlowski and Remy if you wish to read them.

I'll let others come up with a reading list; that would be very useful to readers I think.