A Chat with John Wabeck

[morela]

John,

Did anyone in your family influence your culinary talent? Who or what got you started in the kitchen? At what point did you stop playing golf?

[wmsmurray]

Chef Wabeck,

I have only dined at Firefly once but my wife and I loved it. Everything from the ingredients to the thoughtful wine list and ambience made it a winner and we hope to dine there again soon. My questions for you are what do you find to be the greatest challenge as a chef in DC and (on a purely frivolous note) what is your favorite city in terms of eating out? Thanks for your time.

[docsconz]

John,

This is a great Q&A. I've been wanting to get to your restaurant in DC for awhile. I'm going to have to figure out how and when to get the time to get down there! Thanks for the insights.

[John W.]

John,

Did anyone in your family influence your culinary talent?  Who or what got you started in the kitchen? At what point did you stop playing golf?

My parents influenced me indirectly. My father was a Doctor of Food Technology, specializing in poultry at the University of MD. In the lab where he worked was a pressure fryer/cooker. That's where the best fried chicken I've ever had came from. My first food memory as a child was eating radishes right out of the dirt in our garden. I still to this day love radishes. My parents were not terribly good cooks and adhered to the cook the hell out of it style. I didn't have time for food until it paid the bills. After a failed attempt or two to go to regular college, I ended up working in Ocean City, Maryland. After seeing people twice my age making next to nothing, and all the bad habits that went with Ocean City, I wised up and went to CIA.

I feel I have run into the right people at the right time - Bill at Red Sage taught me how to move my ass, work harder, faster, do more. Ris taught me how to make food taste good. About balance. Nora forced me to learn about different cuisines, as there was much more than Asian or Southwestern (which was all I knew and cared to know at the time). The guy who taught me how to cook professionally actually works in DC now as a rep for a wholesaler. I still stay in touch with him.

I stopped playing golf due to tendinitis (which I still have) like 7 or 8 years ago (which sucked because I was down to a 9). I have made a total of $20 playing golf in my life, not enough to pay the bills.

Edited August 10, 2004 by John W. (log)

[John W.]

Chef Wabeck,

I have only dined at Firefly once but my wife and I loved it. Everything from the ingredients to the thoughtful wine list and ambience made it a winner and we hope to dine there again soon. My questions for you are what do you find to be the greatest challenge as a chef in DC and (on a purely frivolous note) what is your favorite city in terms of eating out? Thanks for your time.

My most serious challenge? More space in my kitchen.

I used to think that DC was never taken seriously as a food city. I really believe that is changing.

As far as eating goes, you have to say NYC. It's the biggest stage, with the most pressure. I still have a half-a-dozen on my list that I MUST go to, and the list keeps getting longer.

[docsconz]

I still have a half-a-dozen on my list that I MUST go to, and the list keeps getting longer.

Isn't this the truth! The more I try the more I want to try. This applies not just to restaurants, but to different kinds of food and wine as well.

[iamthestretch]

Not to mention models and actresses...

[John W.]

But seriously, John I am very much looking forward to my first of what I hope will be many great meals at Firefly later this week. As an amateur cook, I am very much affected by the seasonal availability of some things -- around here that would be mostly fruits and vegetables. I often experience a feeling of regret as late October comes and the good stuff dwindles. Have you had much experience with preserving summer's bounty in any way shape or form?

I just let the summer fade on out. I can still get tomatoes from PA until frost hits, I've gone as late as early November if I remember right. If you're asking about canning and preserving, I don't have much experience with that.

What's wrong with turnips, celery root, squashes? October is my favorite time of year I think.

[DonRocks]

What is the funniest thing (kitchen incident, customer request, etc.) that has happened to you in your career?

[John W.]

What is the funniest thing (kitchen incident, customer request, etc.) that has happened to you in your career?

Define funny. I've seen or been part of some pretty stupid (or funny depending on how you look at it) events, most not fit for a board such as this.

There's the usual "I don't want the pickled jicama, can I have a steak instead."

Or the "I want eggs benedict, but ham on one muffin, sauteed spinach on the other, hollandaise on the one with spinach and if you put hollandaise on the one with ham I'll be on the phone with Sietsema before you have a chance to replate it." Slightly exaggerated, but you get the picture. Try rolling that when you have 100 on the books (all with similar requests) for Easter.

On that topic, I ask this question; Why does brunch bring out all the loony tunes requests? I can see no bread on your burger for lunch. I can see no blue cheese on your Michael's Rib Eye Diablo, but the requests for brunch are insane.

[Nadya]

Hi John, thank you for answering my earlier question. I do have one more for you, and I appreciate you taking the time to talk to us.

What do you think is the perception of American quisine internationally amongst laypeople, and what can be done to improve it? And how would you describe what "American quisine" is to a foreigner?

From my personal experience of growing up in Europe, I can tell you that ragging on "amerikan food" is one of the favorite pastime of Europeans, second only to, oh, never mind. Seriously, people in the Old World seem convinced that culinarily, nothing greater than a hamburger ever came out of America. When I go visit my family and friends now and try telling them how great the U.S. dining scene is, I often get a reaction of incredulity along the lines of "oh, I know, burgers & fries for breakfast and dinner, morbidly obese people wandering around", followed by, "so what is it that American food is all about?"

This is where I get lost, because how do you explain the great variety of choices we have here in a few conceptual terms? This perfect piece of rockfish, this little mound of sweet potato puree, this butterfly shrimp, this lamb chop? Honestly...I would like to have something intelligent to tell them. I am sure people in food biz know it well, but an average European still thinks Americans don't know what good food is...and I mind that very much. Thanks for reading!

[Al_Dente]

Hi John-- it's been too long, I need to drop in at Firefly sometime soon. Thanks for doing this Q&A.

I'm off to California for a longish vacation. I won't get the chance to go to Napa/Sonoma, but I'll be driving through the Monterrey area and Big Sur on my way from San Francisco down to San Diego. Are there any wineries you'd recommend?

Also, what kind of chef are you away from your professional life? What do you cook for yourself at home, or for a small dinner party? Or do you avoid cooking altogether?

[John W.]

Hi John-- it's been too long, I need to drop in at Firefly sometime soon. Thanks for doing this Q&A.

I'm off to California for a longish vacation. I won't get the chance to go to Napa/Sonoma, but I'll be driving through the Monterrey area and Big Sur on my way from San Francisco down to San Diego. Are there any wineries you'd recommend?

Also, what kind of chef are you away from your professional life? What do you cook for yourself at home, or for a small dinner party? Or do you avoid cooking altogether?

Mike;

I never spent any time in those areas. It was either North Coast or all the way down to Santa Barbara. I'll check some stuff and get back to you. If you have time for SB county I can steer you in the right direction.

What kind of chef am I away from the office? A creature of habit, who doesn't eat at home. The stories about Sette and BdC are true. I eat at those two places quite a bit. I haven't dirtied a pot in my own apartment since March, with the exception of my coffee pot. I generally cook on Sundays, for assorted luminaries, at an esteemed colleague's house in Virginia. Menu items have included burgers (enriched with foie gras pate, as Fresh Fields won't give higher than 85/15% mix of ground beef). The latest version had a Camenbert-morel topping. We've done 6 or 7 course menus (all grilled), each with paired wines. That is if the guests show up on time. Left to my own devices, I'll invariably end up drinking too much wine, and then we bum-rush local eateries.

Back in the day, I'd cook lengthy dinner parties. Multi-coursed affairs. It's too much damn work, takes too long to clean up, and I'd always try to do restaurant stuff and set off the fire alarm because I used too high of a flame.

[babka]

John,

Could you talk a little more about produce sourcing, please? How do you find what you want? Do most of your goods come from the D.C. region? from broader? Do you have contracts with a few farms? with many? make friends at the markets? with friendly middlemen? --thanks

[John W.]

Hi John, thank you for answering my earlier question. I do have one more for you, and I appreciate you taking the time to talk to us.

What do you think is the perception of American quisine internationally amongst laypeople, and what can be done to improve it? And how would you describe what "American quisine" is to a foreigner?

From my personal experience of growing up in Europe, I can tell you that ragging on "amerikan food" is one of the favorite pastime of Europeans, second only to, oh, never mind. Seriously, people in the Old World seem convinced that culinarily, nothing greater than a hamburger ever came out of America. When I go visit my family and friends now and try telling them how great the U.S. dining scene is, I often get a reaction of incredulity along the lines of "oh, I know, burgers & fries for breakfast and dinner, morbidly obese people wandering around", followed by, "so what is it that American food is all about?"

This is where I get lost, because how do you explain the great variety of choices we have here in a few conceptual terms? This perfect piece of rockfish, this little mound of sweet potato puree, this butterfly shrimp, this lamb chop? Honestly...I would like to have something intelligent to tell them. I am sure people in food biz know it well, but an average European still thinks Americans don't know what good food is...and I mind that very much. Thanks for reading!

This needs time, and a glass or two of wine.

[John W.]

John,

Could you talk a little more about produce sourcing, please?  How do you find what you want? Do most of your goods come from the D.C. region?  from broader?  Do you have contracts with a few farms? with many? make friends at the markets? with friendly middlemen?  --thanks

I've been dealing with the same companies for a long time now. I know what they have, they know what I want. Most stuff is from local companies. I buy from Eco Farms, and Tusacrora Organic Co-op from Pennsylvania. I buy coffee from la Colombe out of Philly. I think that is as far away as I go.

Given what Firefly is, I don't need the tricks up my sleeve so-to-speak to get the really crazy stuff. It just isn't warranted. I'd love to smash out mastutake fricassee as much as the next guy, or black quinoa crusted whatever, but I trust I'd quickly be out of a job. I'd like to say I go to the market alot, but I don't, as one of the your (collective) e-gullet heroes likes to challenge me to chess after Timberlakes after BdC on Saturday nights. Being the public figure I am (sarcasm here), I wouldn't be looking my best so to speak.

But I do enjoy it when I go to the Dupont one (about once a month lately).

[Nadya]

I'd like to say I go to the market alot, but I don't, as one of the your (collective) e-gullet heroes likes to challenge me to chess after Timberlakes after BdC on Saturday nights. Being the public figure I am (sarcasm here), I wouldn't be looking my best so to speak.

Playing chess after heavy drinking...ooh, that does sound like fun. One of these things you usually wryly describe afterwards as "it seemed like a good idea at the time." Reminds me of that one time a couple of years ago when I went ice skating after a martini-fest with friends at Ozio...they told me later they tried to restrain me as I tried to get up from the couch, repeating maniacally, "but I HAVE to go shkating!"

[John W.]

What do you think is the perception of American quisine internationally amongst laypeople, and what can be done to improve it? And how would you describe what "American quisine" is to a foreigner?

From my personal experience of growing up in Europe, I can tell you that ragging on "amerikan food" is one of the favorite pastime of Europeans, second only to, oh, never mind. Seriously, people in the Old World seem convinced that culinarily, nothing greater than a hamburger ever came out of America. When I go visit my family and friends now and try telling them how great the U.S. dining scene is, I often get a reaction of incredulity along the lines of "oh, I know, burgers & fries for breakfast and dinner, morbidly obese people wandering around", followed by, "so what is it that American food is all about?"

This is where I get lost, because how do you explain the great variety of choices we have here in a few conceptual terms? This perfect piece of rockfish, this little mound of sweet potato puree, this butterfly shrimp, this lamb chop? Honestly...I would like to have something intelligent to tell them. I am sure people in food biz know it well, but an average European still thinks Americans don't know what good food is...and I mind that very much.  Thanks for reading!

Let's give this a shot.

What do you think is the perception of American quisine internationally amongst laypeople, and what can be done to improve it? And how would you describe what "American quisine" is to a foreigner?

I'm pretty certain they think it's Whoppers and Cokes. The best way I can see to improve the perception is to hire a PR firm to re-work the whole image of this country as far as the rest of the world is concerned. In my limited travels, (Japan twice and France once), I've never run into the "hey big mac jackass" comments when my profession is revealed.

"so what is it that American food is all about?"

I hope to see an answer to that in my lifetime. Is it an American chef cooking French food at such a high level, like Thomas Keller? A Japanese chef, such as Morimoto, doing what he does in the US? Alice Waters? Then you throw in the Italian chefs. And Indian chefs. American cuisine cannot be defined in a neat sound-bite right now. For me, how I cook in a perfect world, it's whatever cultural influences I've come across (and it's a lot), grounded by French techniques (that's my training).

(Please forgive the bad quoting, having a bad computer moment right now)

[mdt]

John,

Many restaurants have decent wine lists and offer terrific food, but fall short by serving their wines at to warm a temperature. They obviously spend time to prepare and create wonderful meals and select wines for the list, but the wine service seems to be an afterthought. Your ideas?

And as an aside, what would your version of devlied eggs be like?

[pastramionrye]

What is your least favorite part of being an executive chef?

what is the thing you miss most about being a line cook?

thanks.

Edited August 12, 2004 by pastramionrye (log)

[John W.]

John,

Many restaurants have decent wine lists and offer terrific food, but fall short by serving their wines at to warm a temperature.  They obviously spend time to prepare and create wonderful meals and select wines for the list, but the wine service seems to be an afterthought.  Your ideas?

And as an aside, what would your version of devlied eggs be like? 

In my distorted view of how a restaurant should be run, 1/3 of the attention should be paid to food, 1/3 to wine and the remainder to service/ambiance. That said, when the restaurant was first being built, there was supposed to be a small wine closet just behind the bar. We lost that to the handicapped-sized bathroom. That meant we would have to trek all the way through the kitchen to retrieve each bottle of red, which is most defintitely out. Something would have to be built or bought, so we invested in a Euro-Cave. That simple (but not cheap) detail has paid off immensely. We bought good glassware. We train our staff, not to remember what each wine tastes like, but what it should taste like. Then it's up to me to buy varietally correct wines. I am most proud of the wine program we have.

As for deviled eggs? You know if I tell you then I have to make them for Morela.

Let's do this - Do the standard deviled egg style, jack up the deviled bit with some lime and chili, then top with duck carnitas hit with some good BBQ sauce. Scallions. Some pink bubbly, it just might work.

[John W.]

What is your least favorite part of being an executive chef?

what is the thing you miss most about being a line cook?

thanks.

The babysitting. My intense dislike of that ensures I'll never have kids.

In addition to the chef gig, I am also the GM, and work the floor three nights a week. Without my constant attention to anything (try as I might, it's tough to be everywhere), stuff that could be resolved at the start sometimes get to the babysitting/handholding stage. (Not that it's a huge issue, I just hate babysitting).

As for what do I miss as a line cook, at Firefly, nothing. I am still one. Saute for lunch four days a week, garde manger (ok, salad bitch) 2 nights a week. Set up/break down too. I was in heaven during restaurant week when the beatings were being issued. I can still bring it a little bit.

[KatieLoeb]

Let's do this - Do the standard deviled egg style, jack up the deviled bit with some lime and chili, then top with duck carnitas hit with some good BBQ sauce. Scallions. Some pink bubbly, it just might work.

If these were on the menu I would trek from Philly to DC for them. And the pink bubbly sounds perfect. I've always thought of sparkling rose as "brunch wine" because it's just so yummy with all those egg-based dishes.

Actually I am going to trek to Firefly one of these days. I'll have to come late so I can catch Chef at the end of a shift and get a chance to chat.

[Nadya]

Wonder if I can sneak one more in...

Can you comment a little bit on your vision of what a relationship between front-o'-the-house and back-o'-the-house should be? And how to achieve that? It seems that it is often fairly acrimonious, which of course doesn't make sense, but happens a lot still. It is pretty smooth at Bis, but I heard from our kitchen crew that this is not the case in most places. With you wearing both the chef and GM hats, you must have some interesting insights into this.

[John W.]

Wonder if I can sneak one more in...

Can you comment a little bit on your vision of what a relationship between front-o'-the-house and back-o'-the-house should be? And how to achieve that? It seems that it is often fairly acrimonious, which of course doesn't make sense, but happens a lot still. It is pretty smooth at Bis, but I heard from our kitchen crew that this is not the case in most places.  With you wearing both the chef and GM hats, you must have some interesting insights into this.

There should be mutual respect. Servers think the cooks are crybabies, cooks think servers are lazy and make a hell of a lot more money. We started at the begining. Of course we have had problems. During the pre-opening training, the servers were taught correct verbage when addressing the kitchen. Say you have a steak that needs to be cooked more - DO say "I need this cooked more." DO NOT say "the guy on table 42 ordered this medium. It's not medium." That's enough to incite a riot on a Saturday. On the other side of the kitchen doors, we try to go with this mantra for the kitchen staff - Don't send a waiter back to the table pissed off. It's taken me along time to establish this. Being nice to people is tough (especially for me, I'm pretty shy around people I don't know), and I make sure the cooks know that (although I might exaggerate a bit).

I still get plenty pissed off, but instead of starting out beating a waiter, I'll give them a chance to respond. If it's a BS excuse, then it starts. (seems hypocritical, but it's only for mistakes repeated over and over and over).

We have a pretty good relationship between the front and the back. It helps the restaurant out as a whole, I'd like to think that most of our staff get it.

Edited August 12, 2004 by John W. (log)