Frozen Fish

[easyguru]

This restaurant gets the fish from India? Unlikely, probably restaurant hype.

I buy my fish from chinese market in New Jersey and I have seen lots of packaging which they keep outside marked with Indian or Bangladeshi cargo mark.

They have live Eel kept at the counter and it is in the Air Biman cargo boxes, similalrly I have bought Pomfret there with Bombay cargo markings.

Also seen shrimps with Orissa packging in that shop as well as in Costco. So lot of fish does come from India it seems.

[Episure]

This restaurant gets the fish from India? Unlikely, probably restaurant hype.

I buy my fish from chinese market in New Jersey and I have seen lots of packaging which they keep outside marked with Indian or Bangladeshi cargo mark.

They have live Eel kept at the counter and it is in the Air Biman cargo boxes, similalrly I have bought Pomfret there with Bombay cargo markings.

Also seen shrimps with Orissa packging in that shop as well as in Costco. So lot of fish does come from India it seems.

I'm surprised, I would have thought the cost of air freighting fish to US would be prohibitive.

[easyguru]

I'm surprised, I would have thought the cost of air freighting fish to US would be prohibitive.

I don't know about Bangladesh but India to USA air cargo market has many daily freight only flights now; with Fedex, UPS and many others flying a regular freighter ( these are huge freight planes with enormous capacity). Imbalance in inbound ( many things India imports is high value) to outbound ( most of outbound export is low value) freight demand makes rate from India to US attractive.

The economics of operating air freighter are such that it costs you a more or less fixed amount if you fly an empty plane or full plane. So freighters offer discount rates to perishable cargo many times.

If you see some of the negotiated rates for air freight you will be surprised. When Blue Dart started domestic freight airline, the Calcutta to Delhi perishable rates were lower than the trucking rates.

[bong]

This restaurant gets the fish from India? Unlikely, probably restaurant hype.

Don't know about the restaurant, but when we are in the mood for an "Indian" fish, we get ours from the local Bangaldeshi grocery store. Most of the fish there is flash frozen and shipped direct from Bangladesh or India.

I am in California.

[Peppertrail]

This restaurant gets the fish from India?

In my previous life as a commodities analyst for an international bank I had worked with several seafood exporters. One of them used to get a substantial portion of his shrimp exports from Kerala. According to this exporter shrimp from India has great demand from seafood restaurants in the U.S. On one of my visits home, I had toured their shrimp freezing and packaging facilities in Kerala.

[Episure]

The prawns I can understand as India is price competitive.

Why on earth would anyone prefer frozen fish?

Or dont you all get fresh fish?

[BBhasin]

The prawns I can understand as India is price competitive.

Why on earth would anyone prefer frozen fish?

Or dont you all get fresh fish?

Episure,

The American stores are flooded with shrimp from India, frozen of course. Restaurant Depot, a wholesale puveyor to the industry carries tiger prawns from India.

I do not know about fish but the Indian stores ( specially those catering to Bangladeshis) carry a lot of frozen fish from that region perhaps the variety is not available here. There is however plenty of fresh fish available here.

All I know is the good old pomfret which I can not find here( there is a smaller version called butter fish) but I can pick up a frozen one at the Indian store.

bhasin

[Peppertrail]

The prawns I can understand as India is price competitive.

Why on earth would anyone prefer frozen fish?

Or dont you all get fresh fish?

Episure:

I don't know why anyone would prefer frozen fish over fresh fish. Anyway being a vegetarian I am not qualified to answer that question. Yes they do get fresh fish in the U.S. May be Indian fish is also price competitive? In any case India exports a variety of seafood to U.S. and other countries.

Here are a few exporters from Kerala and their product list. This is by no means a complete list of exporters. And I have no idea who exactly are their customers in the U.S.

Cochin Frozen Food Exports Private Limited is a USFDA green ticket holder. Plant has USFDA HACCP compliance. European Union approved plant. Facilities approved by Government of India under self-monitoring system. Products include Fresh Water Shrimp, King Fish (Seer Fish) Reefcod, Red Snapper, Ribbon Fish and Pearl Spot Fish.

Bharath Sea Foods export frozen marine products to Japan, U.S.A, E.E.C, Canada, Turkey, U.A.E., Gulf, Korea, Seafood products include Shrimp, Cuttle fish, Squid, Crab, Ribbon Fish, Seer Fish, Tilapia, Milk Fish, Anchovy, Pearl Spot, Mullet, Eel, Jelly Fish, Silver Pomfret and Black Pomfret.

Geo Seafoods has approval for EEC countries and possess 'green channel' facility for the US Food and Drug Authority. Products include Seerfish (Spanish Mackerel), White Snapper , Yellow Fin Tuna , White Pomfret, Emperor, Pearl Spot, Barracuda, Japanese Thread Fin Bream, Tuna, Scad and whole cuttle fish.

R.F. Exports offers a wide range of seafood products to the major global markets which include the USA, Europe, Japan and China. The product range includes head Shrimp, Squid, Cuttlefish, Octopus, Fish and Fish Products, produced to the specifications and requirements of customers.

Ammini

Edited May 4, 2004 by Peppertrail (log)

[bhelpuri]

In general, you do not get fresh salt-water fish in the USA except in some coastal areas and in specific markets catering mostly to locals or to fish-crazy immigrants like (variously) the Chinese and Portuguese.

Fresh, of course, meaning never frozen.

But then, a lot of the fish you get in India which is not directly from the day's catch is also frozen for a while, including (especially) deep-water fish like surmai (king mackerel). Shrimp are also most often frozen.

In any case, there is nothing at all wrong with frozen fish and in most cases (both in the tropics and when shipping is involved) it is superior to fish which has been sitting around for longer than a few hours.

Edited May 4, 2004 by bhelpuri (log)

[easyguru]

The prawns I can understand as India is price competitive.

Why on earth would anyone prefer frozen fish?

Or dont you all get fresh fish?

The fish you get here in USA from abroad is as fresh or in some cases better than what you get in India. The exporters use better packaging and preservation technology like nitrogen flushing for export market. The pomfret and Kapri which I buy in the Chinese market comes in individualy packed in a plastic bag and is nitrogen flushed. Some of the stuff is packaged live and arrives live.

All the freight airlines offer next day delivery to USA from India for perishable cargo.

How fresh is the fish which you get in Delhi for example. It comes in from places using rail or trucking with minimal packaging and spends more than 24 hours in transportation. There are rules in certain states which prohibit transport of meats, so transporters take a long route to reach markets in India.

[bhelpuri]

Recently, there was a mini-flap over frozen fish served in sushi restaurants in the USA (and some discussion on this site).

Here's the abstract of the NYTimes article that triggered the discussion-

Wholesalers say 50 to 60 percent of sushi in United States is frozen at some point in its journey from ocean to restaurant table; cite health concerns and growing demand; Food and Drug Administration regulations stipulate that with exception of tuna, which has very clean flesh, all fish to be eaten raw must be frozen first, to kill parasites; FDA leaves enforcement of frozen-fish rule to local health officials; tuna is often frozen, too, because global consumption of sushi continues to rise; even in Japan, many sushi bars routinely use frozen fish when fresh is unavailable or more expensive than market will bear.

[bhelpuri]

Having said all of that, there is no doubt that the specifically Indian fish that I regularly buy in the US is of more variable quality than can be bought easily in, say, Bombay.

This is partly understandable, and partly due to indifferent preservation technology.

[mongo_jones]

true--a lot of the frozen fish i have bought in bangladeshi stores in l.a is crappy. this may be because there's no telling how long the fish has been in their freezers since they received them. for a bengali in the u.s however, this is a chance worth taking to get at some ilish and rui (hilsa and rohu)--and strangely enough those two fish have always seemed to be of very good quality. i've had nasty experiences with magur though (a variety of bengali catfish)--then again this may be partly psychological as i was raised on the dictum that magur must always be bought live and killed before cooking (the childhood memories of 4 or 5 magur swimming in our kitchen sink while vegetables were chopped suddenly come vividly swimming back to me).

[BBhasin]

'fresh frozen' and 'thawed for your convienience' in small print on the label is something that you can see very often on previously frozen fish in the stores.

The problem is that it is usually in the refrigerator along with fresh fish packs, pretending to be fresh.

[bong]

The prawns I can understand as India is price competitive.

Why on earth would anyone prefer frozen fish?

Or dont you all get fresh fish?

I wish everyone was as lucky to get fresh fish as you are.

Like BBhasin has pointed out before, at most places you can buy seafood here in the USA, fish labeled "fresh" is actually frozen and then thawed. So you are better off buying frozen anyway, unless you plan to cook the fish within a short time.

There are exceptions to this rule of course. If you live near the coast, then you will have access to some fresh fish. You certainly won't have access to fresh Indian fish.

As I understand, Prawns and Shellfish are notorious for their perishabilty, so if you live just a few hours away from the coast, you are better off buying frozen shell fish.

Some chinese grocery stores here in California have these huge tanks full of water, and you can buy fish from there. Usually the choice is very limited though. For instance I only see Tilapia, sometimes catfish. And sometimes I do buy these.

The only thing I always buy live is Blue Crabs. When I get them. From chinese stores.

The other thing about frozen Indian fish that you get here -- often times I find that the fish (for instance Hilsa) quality is very good. Often times it is better than your average Hilsa that you will find in a Kolkata market!

[mongo_jones]

often times I find that the fish (for instance Hilsa) quality is very good. Often times it is better than your average Hilsa that you will find in a Kolkata market!

this borders on heresy but has been independently corroborated by my father--i think the ilish we get in the bangladeshi stores here is the bangladeshi padma-ilish, considered far superior to the west-bengali ilish by most connoiseurs.