Bouley

[Felonius]

I am a big fan of Bouley's cooking, and agree with Fat Guy that when he hits his stride it is as good as it gets in NYC (and maybe the USA). However, I finally gave up dining at Bouley after several truly awful service experiences. These included being seated an hour and a half late for a 9PM reservation, waiting nearly an hour for a first course to arrive, having the wrong bottle of wine brought to the table already opened and then a refusal to take it back (it was MY fault for ordering the wrong bottle, according to the waiter!), ordering a degustation menu to compliment a bottle of 1982 Bordeaux and being brought primarily fish courses , etc., etc. After repeated blunders such as these, I just couldn't take it any more. The fact that some of the staff took on a haughty "you're lucky to be here so go away if you don't like it" attitude when questioned about the service was the final nail in the Bouley coffin.

The notable exception was lunchtime dining. The place is much less rushed and the service usually fine. I suppose I ought to go back some time soon for a lunch.

I find it interesting that I've never encountered anything but flawless service next door at Danube. Same owner, similar level of dining, so why can't Bouley get it's service act together? Has anyone posting here dined at Bouley regularly enough in the past year to know if the service has improved? If so, I'd love to hear about it.

Despite my gripes, I hope Bouley is thriving these days. IMHOP, his work is a valuable part of the high end culinary scene in NYC.

Edited November 4, 2003 by Felonius (log)

[R Washburn]

However, I finally gave up dining at Bouley after several truly awful service experiences.  These included being seated an hour and a half late for a 9PM reservation, waiting nearly an hour for a first course to arrive, having the wrong bottle of wine brought to the table already opened and then a refusal to take it back (it was MY fault for ordering the wrong bottle, according to the waiter!),  ordering a degustation menu to compliment a bottle of 1982 Bordeaux and being brought primarily fish courses  , etc., etc.    After repeated blunders such as these, I just couldn't take it any more.  The fact that some of the staff took on a haughty "you're lucky to be here so go away if you don't like it"  attitude when questioned about the service was the final nail in the Bouley coffin.

The notable exception was lunchtime dining.  The place is much less rushed and the service usually fine.  I suppose I ought to go back some time soon for a lunch.

I find it interesting that I've never encountered anything but flawless service next door at Danube.  Same owner, similar level of dining, so why can't Bouley get it's service act together?  Has anyone posting here dined at Bouley regularly enough in the past year to know if the service has improved?  If so, I'd love to hear about it.

My experiences pretty much mirror yours there, and i think a lot of it has to do with serving too many covers/night. OTOH, the huge volume probably allows the restaurant to make money on a $75 tasting menu, so I can't really complain.

I will try to go back there for lunch and see if I can make a meal out of some unfamiliar dishes

[sammy]

However, I finally gave up dining at Bouley after several truly awful service experiences.  These included being seated an hour and a half late for a 9PM reservation, waiting nearly an hour for a first course to arrive, having the wrong bottle of wine brought to the table already opened and then a refusal to take it back (it was MY fault for ordering the wrong bottle After repeated blunders such as these, I just couldn't take it any more.  The fact that some of the staff took on a haughty "you're lucky to be here so go away if you don't like it"  attitude when questioned about the service was the final nail in the Bouley coffin.

You must be from the midwest.

That's a joke from the Babbo thread for you newcomers.

[rozrapp]

... having the wrong bottle of wine brought to the table already opened....

I have never heard of a restaurant of Bouley's caliber opening wine before it is brought to the table? What happened to the practice of the sommelier bringing the wine unopened to the table, having the diner check the label to be sure it's what he or she ordered, then having the sommelier open the bottle at the table and making sure that it in good condition?

We have never been to Bouley. Our main reason for not going is the many reports, dating back to the days of Bouley's first restaurant, of the kind of wait for a table, despite having a reservation, that you have described. For us, that is totally unacceptable. And if this is the way they do their wine service, well, that's an additional reason for us to spend our dining dollars elsewhere.

[phaelon56]

Prices sure can add up quickly even at lunch. Last year I took a friend out for her birthday lunch on a Saturday. We stopped by Gramercy Tavern to eat in the front room but had just missed the first rush in and would have had a one hour wait. On a lark we decided to try Fleur de Sel. She had the $20 tasting menu and a glass of wine, I had tonic water (just one glass), appetizer, entree and dessert. We both had coffee. Total with tax and tip was about $110 - $115 despite her having selected the $20 tasting menu. I'm no gourmand but she is definitely well acquainted with haute dining - we both found the food to be average to a bit above average but not memorable. The press pot coffee was so bad I had to send it back and explain to them how it should be served.

Ou experience may have been a fluke - I've heard good things about this place but as others have mentioned.... I could be very happy eating some great ethnic food at 1/10 the price.

[jogoode]

The four-star restaurant I recommend the most at this point is Jean Georges, not because of its high highs, but because of its steady reliability.

more consistent than Daniel? You mean the service or food?

I thought Bouley's 4-course lunch was an unbelievable bargain, very high quality, all the extras (do they still give you a little cake as you leave?) -- but the menu is not different enough now for me to even think about going again. I guess you can't compare Bouley to Daniel, but Daniel's tasting menus change daily and a la carte changes pretty frequently too (as I watch from the sidelines ).

[Fat Guy]

I don't think Daniel is rock-solid consistent food- or service-wise, unless you're a regular. If consumer complaints are any indication -- and of course I discount them somewhat because Daniel attracts more than its fair share of inexperienced diners with unrealistic expectations -- Daniel is fully capable of providing sub-par food and/or service. The same can be said of any restaurant, I suppose, but having experienced the extremes (good and bad) at Daniel in both of the restaurant's incarnations I have no doubts about what's possible. Maybe the place is just too damn big, and does too many covers, for consistency to be a given. At Jean Georges, I've always felt that I'd be guaranteed a certain baseline that would be significantly higher than the low-points of Daniel or Bouley -- or Lespinasse, when it was around. I'd put Le Bernardin in the Jean Georges category, as well, in terms of reliability. Give me Daniel or Bouley on a good day over Jean Georges or Le Bernardin. No question. Daniel at its apex is truly remarkable -- some of the individual dishes he puts out are as good as anything I've had at any three-star restaurant in France. But I think one takes on more risk at Daniel or Bouley, though not nearly as much risk at Daniel as at Bouley -- they don't get outright abusive and inept at Daniel; at worst they neglect you a bit, overcook the occasional piece of beef, or underwhelm with a mailed-in degustation. Still, when it comes time to recommend a restaurant to someone who is going to have one four-star experience a year, I simply won't recommend Daniel or Bouley. I recommend Jean Georges, and occasionally Le Bernardin. Or, if money is no object, I recommend Ducasse because I think it's a cut above the other four surviving four-stars.

Bouley's entry-level lunch tasting is probably never going to change much; that seems to be the way the restaurant wants it. But there's plenty of creativity going on in the Bouley kitchen. During tomato season, Bouley was also offering a $35 three-course tomato tasting menu at lunch. At dinner, there are plenty of evolving selections. And if you want the kitchen to cook for you, the kitchen will cook for you. The seafood Bouley gets is really impressive; the guy is a fanatic's fanatic about day-boat products and has a reputation for sending his cooks up to Wellfleet and Chatham and wherever in cars to pick up the product if need be. I also wouldn't be too swayed by menu descriptions. A lot of restaurants totally rewrite their menus but actually serve mostly the exact same dishes with different garnishes. I think Bouley mostly leaves his menu alone and changes what his team does in the kitchen. That being said, I agree there could be more change on the Bouley menu.

[marcus]

I've eaten at Bouley a good number of times, much less recently, because of the lack of change of the menu. I don't see the evolution that FG refers to, just the same old thing time after time. I do agree that the restaurant is wildly inconsistent. The problem that I've never had is any service problem, always seated promptly and the service is amont the best in NY, overall 2d only to Le Bernardin, much better than Jean Georges, haven't been to ADNY. However, I do believe that at its best, Bouley produces the best dishes in the city and he can be a brilliant chef. I would recommend the a la carte over the tasting menu, the individual dishes are more complex and seem to get more care. An imponderable for me at Bouley is that sometimes I'm treated like a VIP and get extra and better dishes, a half portion say of halibut with a beet sauce between the appetizer and main dish, followed by an extra main dish on the table like venison, and then an extra desert or two as well. Almost like a double meal. Other times, just what we ordered, possibly an extra desert. I don't know how to break the code on that.

[Fat Guy]

The way you break the code is by developing a personal relationship with a specific captain or two that you know will take care of you every time you go. For the year I was working in the Financial Center, I had that kind of relationship and probably had 15 superb meals in a row. Damn I miss the expense account, though not the work. I no longer go enough or earn enough to maintain that kind of relationship, so Bouley doesn't really work for me as a destination anymore.

I think the food at Bouley changes more than anybody here is acknowledging, albeit not as much as at Daniel, but ultimately the way you get diversity in cuisine at any top restaurant is by asking for it. If you go to Daniel every week, I assure you it will seem to you that the menu doesn't change enough. This is the case with regulars at any restaurant, and they fall into two schools: the ones who like it that way (a lot of regulars prefer to eat the same one, two, or three dishes in rotation forever and will freak out if a favorite becomes unavailable) and the ones who go off menu and ask the kitchen to cook for them (in which case any restaurant of that caliber can produce a steady stream non-repetitive dishes seemingly forever).

[jogoode]

It's hard to believe Bouley's eccentric menu descriptors -- freshly harpooned? -- I guess it's the real deal. You ever talk to him or someone at the restaurant about Bouley's work with Chatham and Wellfleet fisherman?

Edited November 6, 2003 by jogoode (log)

[jogoode]

mjc,

on a somewhat unrelated note, bouley has a book coming out next week, based on the cuisine of danube.

I think it's called "East of Paris". A Times advert says Bouley's doing a "free demo, tasting, and book signing" in Hartsdale (upstate ny) in a week or two.

Fat Guy,

The same can be said of any restaurant, I suppose, but having experienced the extremes (good and bad) at Daniel

This is good to know. I think I've always had Daniel on a pedestal for some reason. And the place is huge. I haven't done Jean G yet. Its cheap-ass lunch is on my to-do.

[PaulaJK]

Do you have any idea of the composition of the ocean

herbal broth? I love this dish.

[R Washburn]

The way you break the code is by developing a personal relationship with a specific captain or two that you know will take care of you every time you go. For the year I was working in the Financial Center, I had that kind of relationship and probably had 15 superb meals in a row. Damn I miss the expense account, though not the work. I no longer go enough or earn enough to maintain that kind of relationship, so Bouley doesn't really work for me as a destination anymore.

Definitely true, and exactly how well you are treated is up to the captain, within the limits of what management permits. I had dinner at Daniel last night and my comps included:

1) the good amuse-bouche (5 items instead of 3).

2) a glass of champagne

3) an extra soup course

4) dessert wine

5) an extra dessert, presented on a big mock-up of a birthday cake, with "Happy Birthday Robert" written on the plate. I have never seen them do that for anybody before, for anybody.

This was definitely the most they have done for me, but that particular captain always does something for us. One thing I like about Daniel is that staff seems to be really happy that you enjoy the food. After a meal like last night's, it is hard for me to justify eating dinner at any other high end restaurant.

[Fat Guy]

Right, because at this point, in your world, Daniel isn't a restaurant. It's a private club to which you belong, and that's the only way to fly.

[Felonius]

You must be from the midwest.

That's a joke from the Babbo thread for you newcomers.

[Felonius]

Right, because at this point, in your world, Daniel isn't a restaurant. It's a private club to which you belong, and that's the only way to fly.

So true. The admission price is high, but man is it a good ride at any of Daniel's restaurants for the regulars. I'd bet that's why his dining rooms are packed 7 days a week, even in a down economy. He and his staff are masters at taking care of the locals who can afford to dine at Daniel and/or Cafe Boulud on a regular basis.

[R Washburn]

So true.  The admission price is high, but man is it a good ride at any of Daniel's restaurants for the regulars.  I'd bet that's why his dining rooms are packed 7 days a week, even in a down economy.  He and his staff are masters at taking care of the locals who can afford to dine at Daniel and/or Cafe Boulud on a regular basis.

To be a VIP it is. Many of those people go out of their way to make difficult requests, and watch the staff scramble to accomodate them. These are the big spending types that probably provide most of the profits. It is also possible to befriend members of the waitstaff, who may then choose to provide you with comps and extra touches. I only go to Daniel 3 or 4 times a year, but I have gotten to know some of the members of the staff.

[VivreManger]

Wednesday evening -- the start of the cold spell -- was a great night for a choucroute bite, a better day for a cassoulet, but we had driven in from Massachusetts for dinner at Boulet and neither, as I well knew, would be on the menu. Because of an accident on the Sawmill River Parkway, we were delayed, and instead of parking the car at our midtown hotel and taking a taxi, we had to drive directly downtown. Driving uptown afterwards meant drinking less at dinner.

We were quickly seated in the white not red room, on the right as you enter, not on the left -- similarly designed to the room on other side. By 7:45 the restaurant was less than half-filled on our side, perhaps slightly more crowded on the other. Since the place was not packed, it was agreeably quiet. My wife's back gives her trouble so we had to shuffle the seating until we found a chair hard enough. I wound up on the banquette, against the window, where a cold draft alternated with periods of heat, not the most comfortable of spots, I gradually realized. But I did not succumb to the chills.

The table was decorated with a low vase of roses, a lovely touch.

The amuse bouche consisted of a cool glass with -- I believe -- mackerel cucumber foam on top and an avocado puree on the bottom with wasabi, yogurt, and apple somewhere in the middle and sweet corn kernels inside a tuile on the side plate. I am not a great fan of mackerel, much preferring cucumber and avocado. The fish flavor kept slipping in and out of the palate creating a scarlet pimpernel sensation -- is it here, is it there, is it everywhere? Ultimately it was intriguing, but not enthralling. The apple yogurt combination reminded me of the pre-dessert at GR RHR, not exactly the high point of that particular meal. Given the weather, I would have preferred something warmer, perhaps a cup of hot vegetable chicken broth. Thee tree-star Gordon Ramsay Royal Hospital Road in London truffled -- and unfortunately also over salted -- their chicken stock as the amuse at the lunch I had on a far warmer day so David Boulet should not have feared losing chef face by doing something similar.

For starters my wife had the terrine of eggplant, bell pepper, with a layer of chevre. This cheese, BTW missing from the menu's description, was more prominent than the announced Italian parsley sauce. I had the grilled Portuguese sardine with marinated hon shimeji and cremini mushrooms, soy, yuzu and citrus marinade. Both of us were pleased. While I too enjoyed the eggplant, it reminded me of a very well-made ratatouille, well-done, but nothing exceptional. The chevre addition did give it an unusual taste, worth noting as an addition for other dishes. The sardine may have been the single best item of the first two courses. Well-grilled fish is one of the under appreciated elements of cuisine and these pieces of sardine were beautifully grilled. The outer flesh was slightly crispy. The flesh below was yielding and moist. The sardine combined the charred taste of the grill, with the robust oily fishiness of the sea more agreeably than in the mackerel amuse. The fungi and citrus marinade were an effective counterpoint to the fish taste. I did not sense the soy as strongly as the mushrooms and the citrus marinade, which was muted and contributed to but did not overwhelm the other flavors.

For mains my wife had the King salmon with a citrus sauce topped with clementine. I had the black sea bass with scallops, jasmine rice and bouillabaise sauce. The salmon dish did not really work. The clementine overwhelmed the other tastes. The first bites of my dish were superb. The sauce was excellent, essence of bouillabaisse, a favorite -- at least as good as one can find it this side of the Atlantic. The slow-cooked tomato, bass, and scallop combination worked well together. The fish was black sea bass, not the over-fished and over-served oily variety aka Patagonian tooth-fish. Black sea bass is closer in texture and flavor to cod than to the non-black bass, if I am not mistaken. However as I ate more of the dish my appreciation slightly decreased. The later scallop slices, rather than the fish itself, seemed a bit overcooked. These slices had that dried, slightly recooked aftertaste that not good scallops in an inferior restaurant sometimes have. I wonder if the dish could be improved if the slices were flashed fried with a touch of butter and olive oil in a very hot skillet, then the pan residues could have been reduced quickly with a bit of the bouillabaisse sauce before this was added to the sauce for the fish. Rather than cooking the scallops with the fish which I think is now done, they could be added after so each would be prepared separately to reflect their different thicknesses and cooking times. As the dish is now prepared the scallops do not really create the "Scallop Crust" the menu description offers. Although I usually love rice of all descriptions, the jasmine rice under the fish with its hint of coconut or vanilla or both, although pleasant enough started to remind me a bit of rice pudding. None of these objections of course prevented me from finishing the dish, but it did ever so slightly diminish delight.

As we were eating our mains, the fingerling mashed potatoes arrived, a starch I did prefer to the rice. The mashed had a consistency that reminded me of the Auvergne speciality, aligote, but without the cheese. Heretically, I must confess this an easier way to eat the dish.

The bread service was very good. As I recall, six or seven types were offered: Apple-biscuits, a pleasant combination, a standard issue white bread whose details escape me, and then a proffered tray of breads with, respectively, pistachio, walnut, raisin, olive, or garlic. I happily tried the olive and garlic. My one complaint there was that after I finished my main course, but still had some bread left, the staff were a bit too eager to remove my bread plate before I was finished with it.

At this point, my wife was ready to order dessert and I offered to help, our common practice. In general I prefer not to eat dessert immediately after my main course, but prefer to wait a bit, to allow the gentlemen to retire to the sitting room for cigars and brandy, before returning to the ladies for the brandied flaming bread pudding. However I forgot that we were at Bouley where no main can pass without immediately being followed by multiple attacks of sugar. In fact we ordered and were charged for only one dessert, but we got the standard sweet feast. By my count we each had four dessert courses, each of which had multiple components. First was a pre-dessert of strawberries, yogurt, and Campari sugar. Three of the tastes I could immediately identify, but primed as I was to find the Campari, it still eludes me. You may remember the amuse here began with a bit of yogurt. GR RHR also offers a pre-dessert of yogurt with fruit. By now I am finding the idea a bit boring, particularly since my standard breakfast is yogurt, fruits of the season, a bit of preserves, and flakes of dry cereal. Still it was cool -- given the evening perhaps a bit too cool -- and refreshing. Certainly it cleansed the palate of all that preceded. After considerable temptation, my wife succumbed to the Sweet Pleasures, described on the website as "Fine Leaves of Milk Chocolate with Milk Chocolate Ganache and Chantilly Light Crisp Praliné on a Toasted Hazelnut Dacquoise", four separate items, but when they arrived they must have proliferated to at least one or two more. In my sugar-high clouded memory, I think there was also a rich chocolate fudgies cake and, perhaps, one or two other bits and pieces. Unordered there arrived a dessert of my own, "Raspberry Cloud with Yogurt Caramel Crisp, Rose Petal Ice Cream Amaretto Toffee Sauce and Apricot Anglaise". I am not sure the amaretto and apricot anglaise were on my plate, but the cloud and ice cream definitely were. The raspberry cloud is in fact a frozen raspberry mousse, with a delightful consistency, a kind of slightly crystalized pudding. The rose petal ice cream subtly complemented the raspberry mouse. At some point there was a blood orange sauce, but I can't remember if it was on my plate or my wife's. It went well on whosever plate it was. These two main dessert courses were followed by another light post-dessert, a parfait of white chocolate mousse, strawberries and cream. My wife was starting to wave the white flag so she called me into to rescue her, but I too was almost at my end. The truth is that I am not a fan of white chocolate, which has all the fattening disadvantages of real chocolate without the high.

But she did recover as soon as the mignardises arrived. The plate consisted of one finger nailed sized portion each of: tuille, truffle, sable breton, almond cookie, butter cookie, and mini fruit tart. I might have missed one or two items. She is more of a fan of butter-nut cookies then I and she pronounced them perfection. Who am I to disagree?

Because of the change in driving plans I drank much less wine that I would have expected. We each had one glass. The Mrs. had a very good pinot grigio whose name escapes me. Perhaps someone could help me out the name since it definitely is worth ordering again. She enjoyed it very much. Normally I find pinot grigio much too steely. I don't like drinking razor blades. But this one was far more full-bodied and smoother than normal without becoming a chardonnay. I had the A to Z Pinot Noir, a very pleasant, if not exceptional, wine.

The water service was amusing. Very shortly after being seated an eager young man asked if we would like to order some, Evian being the beverage on offer. I asked if they had Badoit, which they did not. Instead we were offered "Nappe ??", an Italian sparkling water similar to San Pellegrino which we did accept. Towards the very end of the meal, we had finished the bottle and, unbidden, he opened and started pouring a second bottle of it which we declined. At this point we did insist upon tap water.

Since we hardly had any wine, we did not have any contact with the sommelier, but we did deal with at least four or five other servers whose precise roles I could not clearly define. There was our waiter who seemed to be in charge of the entire room, rather a large order even on a slow night. There was the water boy, very young looking. There was a 20 something fellow who offered the wine list, but did not seem to have a sommelier's authority. Then there was a jacketed gentleman, about the age of our waiter who seemed to float through the room without necessarily taking any orders, perhaps the wine was his role. Flitting through on the wings of mercury were a kitchen server or two who wandered in and out all too briefly to present and describe the chef's unbidden offerings, e.g. amuse bouche and extra desserts. We managed to hail one to try to get a slower description, but he seem to have taken a course in speed speaking so it was not easy to keep track of all the ingredients. The incomplete descriptions I am able to share here drew upon the few notes I took, in addition to checking the website and other sources. The service struck me, not surprisingly, as considerably less formal and less classically organized than comparable restaurants in Europe which I know better. By the way they passed the napkin test with flying colors. On the other hand, they seem yet to have learned my wife's favorite style of coffee, the Americano, a decaf espresso served in a standard full cup with added water. She had to explain it, twice.

I am not sure how I feel about the room's head waiter. Later when push came to shove, he did respond attentively to our comments and suggestions, of which more below, but earlier I felt he was treating us with a bit of knowing, slightly condescending bemusement. His responses to our queries about how certain dishes were precisely prepared, reflected a bit of impatience -- and this was earlier in the evening when the room had not yet started to fill. We clearly were not the evening's big spenders. At least two or three of the other nearby tables were ordering either chef's choice or the tasting menu. And we ordered little wine. Furthermore my wife displayed considerably less décolletage than at least two of the other tables. When we asked if David Bouley was cooking that evening we got an oracular non-response, which might be interpreted to mean he is so good that even if he were not cooking the quality of the kitchen and staff he has created make his presence or absence immaterial. I still don't know what he meant. As I indicated at the top of this message, it was a cold evening, the start of a well-predicted visit to the northeast's deep freeze -- where is global warming now that we need it??? -- a perfect evening for a hearty soup, but only one was on offer. The Mrs. wanted to know if the cauliflower soup could be made sans foie gras -- she is not into innards -- no luck. Was any other soup possible? No. And then he added that for five years he had been trying to get David to put a soup on the menu and only recently did he finally agree to this one so the chances of getting any other were dim. After we finished eating, we did manage to make a second appointment with him, at which point he unexpectedly sat down at the empty chair next to our table and listened only to my wife's suggestions -- I decided to keep mum about the overcooked scallops. The king salmon was overwhelmed by the clementine and otherwise lacked any of the other listed citrus flavors. It was a good piece of fish, well-cooked, but lacked much distinction. Also, she -- a great lover of rabbit food -- asked, could there not be a green salad on the menu? No, in effect he explained, David would never put one on the menu since it would fail to offer an opportunity for his talents, but had you asked we could have made you one. The waiter was in fact highly opinionated and informative, with quite a bit of his own shtick, but limits to what he could actually produce.

In sum, the meal and service were, on the whole, very good, but I could imagine might have been even better. I thought the desserts were the best single aspect of the meal, with the starters a close second. The desserts certainly were the most fun.

One other pleasant note, which in the rushed escape from the cold we missed at our entrance, the apple orchard. The walls of the entrance anteroom to the restaurant are covered with fresh apples displayed behind narrow wood crate boards. The aroma is intoxicatingly sweet and heavy, like a crisp New England fall day at the cider mill in the orchard. But of course now we are in the dead of winter and I wondered what would they do when the apples froze -- perhaps make ice cider?

Responding both to our experience that evening and other reports I have collected, I sense that David Bouley is in a bit of a rut. The menu has changed little over the last year or so. Even the so-called seasonal tasting menu gave little evidence of responding to the season's changing needs, a philosophy of cooking that might be termed anti-Alice Waters. It is as if chef and kitchen are wrapped in a time warp all of their own, with little need to take into account the cold winds swirling around them. I do know that after 11 September he was forced to respond to more than just swirling winds. Now that the towers' debris has settled, perhaps he just wants to curl up and ignore the outside.

[gmi3804]

During our recent trip to NYC, we were lucky enough to snag a reservation at Bouley on Saturday, March 27, at 8:00.

We arrived precisely at 8 and were shown to a banquette in the "White" room. I'd requested the "Red" room, but was told upon my arrival that it was full.

With FIVE MINUTES of sitting down: Our cocktail order was taken; a water order was solicited (we declined, preferring to spend our duckets on wine in a city where the tap water is more than adequate); our amuse bouche was presented; our cocktails arrived; the amuse dish was cleared before I swallowed; and menus were offered (which we declined, needing some time to process the whirlwind past five minutes). I asked the head waiter to slow things down a bit, and he complied to the point of not returning for 15 minutes with the menus.

We placed our orders, appetizer and entree for both of us, and ordered one of our favorite wines, a Gaia & Rey ($245).

My partner ordered the foie gras appetizer, which was listed on the menu as containing fresh rhubarb. It arrived containing red grapes. We asked the waiter what was supposed to be in the dish, as there was no rhubarb to be found. Not sure, he dashed off to the kitchen only to return to tell us we were right: the chef had decided that the ingredients were not "up to standard," and a substitution was made. (The man at the adjacent table didn't notice the change in the same appetizer.)

Maybe a combination of our wine order and our calling the waiter on the foie snafu awakened something in the staff and/or management, because from then on enough couldn't be done for us. A second appetizer was brought for each of us. After we ordered desserts, three extras were brought, after a dessert amuse. There were all most gallant and much-appreciated, and we left the restaurant satisfied, if not wholly impressed. We'd been to the old Bouley as well as Bouley Bakery in the past and expected better.

Did we do wrong by not ordering water? Should we have just been grateful to have gotten in on a Saturday night? Were they that desperate to turn over our table? Were we typecast as Hayseeds from Chicago and treated accordingly until we "proved" we were worthy to be there?

Yes, they made efforts to make ammends, but the overall taste brought away from the evening was ruined early on.

[Lesley C]

Should we have just been grateful to have gotten in on a Saturday night?

The only time you should be grateful to be in a restaurant is when the meal is free. He should be grateful you handed him -- what? -- $500 for that less-than-impressive dinner.

[gmi3804]

Should we have just been grateful to have gotten in on a Saturday night?

The only time you should be grateful to be in a restaurant is when the meal is free. He should be grateful you handed him -- what? -- $500 for that less-than-impressive dinner.

But of course. And we did tip well, despite the problems, because by the end of the meal we had some new best friends.

[robyn]

...Did we do wrong by not ordering water?  Should we have just been grateful to have gotten in on a Saturday night?  Were they that desperate to turn over our table?  Were we typecast as Hayseeds from Chicago and treated accordingly until we "proved" we were worthy to be there?

Yes, they made efforts to make ammends, but the overall taste brought away from the evening was ruined early on.

I'm not sure whether you forgot emoticons after your questions.

You order a $245 bottle of wine - and worry about not ordering water? You think that perhaps you should have to put up with garbage because the restaurant allowed you to eat there on a Saturday night? I say phooey (to the restaurant - not you).

And yes - perhaps the restaurant was just trying to turn over the table as many times as possible that night - regardless of who you are (I don't think people from Chicago are "hayseeds" - note that I am from a city much smaller than Chicago).

By the way - we had an experience similar to yours at MK in Chicago a couple of years ago - and I think it was solely a question of turning over the table as many times as possible. But - like you - even after we managed to slow things down somewhat - we considered the evening ruined from the very beginning. Robyn

[gmi3804]

...Did we do wrong by not ordering water?  Should we have just been grateful to have gotten in on a Saturday night?  Were they that desperate to turn over our table?  Were we typecast as Hayseeds from Chicago and treated accordingly until we "proved" we were worthy to be there?

Yes, they made efforts to make ammends, but the overall taste brought away from the evening was ruined early on.

I'm not sure whether you forgot emoticons after your questions.

You order a $245 bottle of wine - and worry about not ordering water? You think that perhaps you should have to put up with garbage because the restaurant allowed you to eat there on a Saturday night? I say phooey (to the restaurant - not you).

And yes - perhaps the restaurant was just trying to turn over the table as many times as possible that night - regardless of who you are (I don't think people from Chicago are "hayseeds" - note that I am from a city much smaller than Chicago).

By the way - we had an experience similar to yours at MK in Chicago a couple of years ago - and I think it was solely a question of turning over the table as many times as possible. But - like you - even after we managed to slow things down somewhat - we considered the evening ruined from the very beginning. Robyn

But you see, we turned down the water pitch before ordering the wine.

And my questions, I should have clarified, were rhetorical. We've dined at some really fine restaurants around the world. I'm a trained (CIA) chef who doesn't cook for a living, so I'm familiar with the ins and outs of restaurant etiquette. I'm all too familiar with the notion that sometimes one must have "connections" at some hot property establishments. But it still irks me when I'm set to enjoy a "four-star" restaurant and I immediately feel as if we're typecast and treated accordingly.

And Robyn, you may take a bit of solace in the fact that mk is no longer the hot place it was when you dined there a couple years ago. I like mk (we were never rushed there like you were), but it took a couple of meals there before we were "recognized."

I still think the true test of a Great Restaurant is how everyone is treated. I remember a couple years back in the NY Times Ruth Reichl's two reviews of Le Cirque: one if you were "somebody" and one if you were "nobody." They were two different reviews altogether.

[foodie52]

Well poo to that....

You're somebody if you are paying the bill.

[robyn]

I still think the true test of a Great Restaurant is how everyone is treated.  I remember a couple years back in the NY Times Ruth Reichl's two reviews of Le Cirque:  one if you were "somebody" and one if you were "nobody."  They were two different reviews altogether.

It's funny - I mentioned the Ruth Reichl review of Le Cirque 2000 tonight in another thread as being one of the great restaurant reviews of all times. For precisely the reason you stated. On the one occasion I went to Le Cirque 2000 - I happened to be a guest of someone special - and I got lots of lobster in the lobster risotto (everything else was wonderful too). I've been afraid to go back there on my own - fearing that Ruth Reichl wasn't wrong - and that the lobster risotto won't have any lobster in it.

The "somebody"/"nobody" dichotomy is interesting. We have sometimes been on the winning side - sometimes on the losing side - of restaurants that make a distinction. In the best of all possible worlds - all fine restaurants would - as you suggest - treat all customers the same. But - unfortunately - that's not the case.

Most recently - we were at a restaurant in Miami a few weeks ago - and were treated with unusually great care by the chef in the hotel restaurant. We couldn't understand why. Turns out that I had spent a while talking with the head concierge at the hotel - exchanging stories about local food/restaurants - and he had told the chef to take care of us. That little extra attention goes a long way in my opinion - and it's too bad that only a fraction of high end restaurants deliver it to all customers. Robyn