Kosher chicken

[Blue Heron]

I've been hearing so much about kosher chickens lately so when I came across one at our Trader Joes, I bought it.   It's the Empire Kosher brand, touted by NY Times & Boston Globe as the best tasting chicken.  It's roasting in the oven now.  My first surprise, was when I opened the package, the chicken was all covered with pin feathers.  Next surprise was the chicken skin had a buttery greasy feeling to it.   Are both of these things normal with buying kosher chickens?  I realize chickens have feathers, but I've never seen so many pin feathers on any one chicken before (a pity, because I love crisp chicken skin and I don't think I was able to remove all of them).  And why do you think the chicken skin has a buttery texture?  I'm hoping that the superior flavor of this chicken will make it worthwhile, especially since the price is more about twice what a non-kosher chicken costs.   Which do you prefer, kosher or regular chicken?

[Blue Heron]

kosher chicken update:  I called the Empire Chicken phone line twice...no answer...hmmm.  I read up on their chickens on their online site.  They look very reputable.  The chicken was in the oven...too late to return it for a non feathered non greasy one.  No response from fellow egulleters...more nervousness since this is my first kosher, I don't know what to expect.  Now we have had lunch, and here is observations on the kosher chicken:  the meat was very flavorful.  About as good as I expected.  Unfortunately I couldn't eat my favorite part (the chicken skin), due to some remaining pin feathers, plus not sure what that greasy substance was on the chicken (I washed it thoroughly before cooking, though).  

Highlight of the meal was Jim Dixon's recipe for Roasted Cauliflower.  It is DELICIOUS!  If you haven't tried this, I highly recommend it.  To find his recipe, one can check the Northwest board under the "In search of veggies" thread (scroll down to Jim's post) or click http://www.egullet.com/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?forum=8&topic=48

[Rail Paul]

Perhaps Empire thinks the pin feathers are part of the charm. I often cook an Empire turkey at Thanksgiving, so I've included a flat nosed pliers as a kitchen tool. Takes a few minutes, but the appearance is greatly enhanced.  Maybe the other manufacturers use lye or paint remover to de-feather the critters, so I'll take my chances with my pliers.

The greasy part is unusual. FWIW, Empire is usually available in NJ for about ũ.29 a pound.

[Fat Guy]

Kosher chickens are defeathered using a cold water process, rather than the standard hot water process, for esoteric reasons not worth explaining here. The cold water process makes feather removal much more difficult, and in fact chickens destined for kosher slaughter are typically bred for tougher skin so the plucking process won't rip it. Although kosher processing facilities devote additional manpower to plucking, it is not uncommon to find pin feathers in a kosher bird. They can be pulled out with pliers or tweezers, or disintegrated with a blowtorch.

Kosher chickens are brined in a salt-water solution, which can affect the texture of the skin (I also believe this is the primary flavor difference people are detecting when they say they like kosher chickens). As I mentioned, the skin also tends to be thicker than normal. It's hard to know exactly what you felt, but I assume that had something to do with it. Still, a high degree of sliminess would not be expected.

A chicken does not taste better or worse because it is kosher. The kosher dietary laws primarily govern the slaughter and processing of chickens. The chickens are chickens, though they may receive certain feed and be handled according to stricter guidelines than average chickens. But a non-kosher processing facility can do all the things a kosher one can, and then some. The best chickens I've had have not been kosher, though on average kosher chickens are definitely better tasting than non-kosher supermarket chickens.

[Jim Dixon]

I'm not sure how much demand there is out here in the Pacific northwest for kosher foods, so any kosher chickens may not be quite as fresh as the birds raised locally. At the competing 'natural' food stores here in Portland (Nature's vs New Seasons...that might be worth a thread right there) I find Rocky and Ranger brands, both touted as free-range, antibiotic-free, etc, etc...They do seem to taste better than the mainstream Fircrest Fryers, and they're not so 'wet,' which I guess means that less water (and its processing additives) is used at the slaughterhouse.

I like the skin, too (#### the fat, it tastes good), and I like my chickens cooked until the meat falls off the bone. I've brined turkeys for the last few years, and have been tempted to try it with a whole chicken to see if you get the same moist breast meat. Anybody brined (or koshered) their own?

Jim (just a country goy)

ps...glad you liked the cauliflower...I sent the recipe to my friend Philip, the Wired corporate chef, and he wrote back that they think he's a god now...I can't really take much credit, since I think I first read about cooking it that way in the NYT.

[Blue Heron]

I think the cold water defeathering process might also explain the buttery/greasy skin.  It definitely wasn't slimy or old.  The greasy was probably fat from the chicken (which was actually lean).  When they processed it with cold water, it didn't remove that coating of fat very well.   Kind of like when you wash your hands with cold water, butter won't come off either.  I now see the label says to expect a few quills.  My Empire chicken was Ū.19/lb, but it came all the way from PA.  I think next time I will try one of Jim's Rocky or Ranger chickens that are more local and try brining it myself.

[macrosan]

As Steven says, there aren't a lot of differences between kosher and non-kosher chickens, but the few differences are important.

First, kosher chickens are sold in much lower volumes, so many of the factory production processes are absent.

Second, many of the chemical additives used for non-kosher chickens are banned.

Third, any chicken with skin blemishes or internal bruises is automatically non-kosher.

Finally chicken-feed has to be controlled (for example no kosher animal can be fed offal). Because of this, many chicken farms supplying kosher butchers are free-range or at least non-battery.

Personally, I believe these factors improve the quality of the meat, altho of course that doesn't necessarily improve the flavor.

[sng sling]

Re the question on brining non-kosher chickens:  I've been doing this for the past couple of years since Cooks Illustrated began touting it.  Of course, you get more sodium, but the results are outstanding.  

We've been using a ridiculous recipe for beer can chicken which involve "seating" a whole, brined bird on an open, 3/4 full beer can on the side of the gas grill and roasting it for about an hour.  The white is moist and the dark meat falls off the bone, but you also get crispy skin....  Charcoal would certainly be even better, but that's not an option here.

We use about a half cup of coarse salt and a similar amount of sugar in a liter and a half of water.  We soak the bird in a zip-loc bag for a couple hours in the fridge.  Drain, rinse, cook.

[col klink]

I've probably taken brining to an extreme.  I have been brining all of my poultry and my pork for the last three years and I will never turn back.  It will take a cheap chicken and turn it into gold.  

I've smoked brined turkey, duck and goose as well as chickens and they're all fabulous.  When I visity my folks in upper Michigan I use their weber and hickory chips.  It's about half as smokey as my smoker but the skin is perfect, crispy, smokey and juicy.  I wouldn't be surprised if a lab examined the skin and said it was laced with opium.

The base of my brine is:

1 gallon water

1 cup kosher salt

1 cup vinegar

1 cup brown sugar/molasses

But I'll also add a bottle of Crystal Extra Hot Sauce, a cup of lemon juice, cayenne or what ever I feel like.

Oh yeah, I've brined chicken up to a week, but usually no more than a three or four days.  Likewise with turkey.  With pork though (unless it is a big roast) you don't want to brine for more than a day or two as pork meat tends to absorb the salt more quickly, especially ribs.  As a matter of fact, ribs don't need to be brined for more than an hour.

btw, although I haven't tried the beer can chicken, I've heard great things about it so I too would recommend trying it.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Blue Heron - As the son of a kosher butcher, here is the way to deal with pin feathers. Singe them off. Put one of your burners on the stove on high and hold the the chicken over the burner to singe them off. If the chicken is greasy for some reason, use gloves. The Barberie ducks we ordered from D'Artagnan for New Years were loaded with pin feathers. The people who were doing the cooking didn't notice them and didn't realize they would affect the finished dish. But I saw it and freaked and spent the next 5 minutes singing the pin feathers off the best I could.

As for kosher chickens/meat tasting better, I think that's a crock. The corrolary they want you to believe is that because the kosher process for raising, feeding and slaughtering is a cleaner process than for non-kosher birds or meat, the taste is superior. But Bell & Evans is a far superior tasting bird than anything Empire makes. And my father was selling Empire birds in the 60's and 70's. I've eaten a few hundred in my lifetime.

[dockhl]

Now, back to kosher chickens..............

bought my first kosher chicken today because I am so very tired of tasteless chicken. I usually brine, or presalt but would like an alternative for the times I don't have the opportunity for either.

So, here is the question, after reading this thread (some of which had to do with chicken ) it sounds like people frequently brine their kosher chickens. My understanding is that you don't 'cause they are already salted. Wassup?

[infernooo]

I don't brine mine - they taste great straight from the butcher/market ! So much nicer than "normal" chicken... (unfortunately Kosher is quite expensive so "normal" chicken makes up 90% of the chicken consumed at our house :-( ).

[Pam R]

Now, back to kosher chickens..............

bought my first kosher chicken today because I am so very tired of tasteless chicken. I usually brine, or presalt but would like an alternative for the times I don't have the opportunity for either.

So, here is the question, after reading this thread (some of which had to do with chicken  ) it sounds like people frequently brine their kosher chickens. My understanding is that you don't 'cause they are already salted. Wassup? 

←

I've never brined one.

What kind of chicken was it? (Empire, Marvid, Chai, etc.?)

[dockhl]

I've never brined one.

What kind of chicken was it?  (Empire, Marvid, Chai, etc.?)

Pam~

It is a Rubashkin’s Aaron’s Best, the brand that Trader Joe's West Coast put into their stores 3 years ago after removing Empire from their shelves.

Anyone familiar with it?

Kathy

[Gifted Gourmet]

Have kept kosher for some 30+ years and used all types of kosher packaged chickens ... Empire and Rubashkin mostly.. now there is a different brand here in Atlanta ... David something ... then there was Queen Esther brand ...

All told, they are salted so brining is hardly necessary or even desirable ... earlier in this thread there was some discussion on feathers being on the chickens that were kosher.. bothers me too .. last Rosh Hashonah, I bought a small Rubashkin duckling: $25 .. covered with feathers ... never again! Have to take the duck for electrolysis?

[dockhl]

Have kept kosher for some 30+ years and used all types of kosher packaged chickens  ... Empire and Rubashkin mostly.. now there is a different brand here in Atlanta ... David something ... then there was Queen Esther brand ...

All told, they are salted so brining is hardly necessary or even desirable ... earlier in this thread there was some discussion on feathers being on the chickens that were kosher.. bothers me too .. last Rosh Hashonah, I bought a small Rubashkin duckling: $25 .. covered with feathers ... never again! Have to take the duck for electrolysis?

←

Well, I cooked the chicken last night and,boy, am I glad I read this thread first ! Lots of pinfeathers and a very greasy feel to the skin. I washed it well in hot water and pulled the feathers, roasted it @425' for an hour. It was juicy and tasty with crispy skin BUT was it any better than if I'd brined/presalted myself? I don't think so. We'll see how the leftovers are today.

Note: I normally buy really big chickens (5lbs or so) but this one was 3 1/2. I think I'm going to start buying smaller ones. It is easier to maintain moistness, I think.