Overpriced and Overrated

[ExtraMSG]

There are lots of items that are worth the money: wild salmon, pameggiano-reggiano, quality chocolate, and so on.

However, there seem to be some items that either a) get more notoriety than their flavor would recommend, and/or b) cost more than they should.

Here are some items that I think are bad values:

* vanilla extract: I've done so many dual batches of cookies now that it's just apparent that in baking Cook's Illustrated is right, pure vanilla isn't worth the money.

* dried pasta: I see no relationship between price and the quality of dried pasta.

* organic ingredients: if you have an ideological/philsophical issue with non-organic ingredients that makes sense. But I can not find any relationship between organic anything and quality. Some organics are good, some aren't. There does seem to be a relationship between local, if it's freshly picked, like at farmer's markets, and quality, but not organic.

* eggs: I can't tell a damned bit of difference between eggs except by freshness

* kobe burger: makes no sense. Almost every application of burger uses lots of flavor anyway, covering up any of the subtley of kobe beef.

[AzRaeL]

is Wild Salmon that good? the Truth is that I've never eaten Farmed Salmon *LOL*

The salmon i've eaten comes from the Fraser River.

Overpriced & Overrated

Kyocera ceramic knives (IMO that is): too fragile and not much good for anything apart from slicing soft objects.

I usually buy whatever is cheap so I have no problems going for the O & O.

[Moopheus]

Anything with hydrogenated vegetable oil.

[AzRaeL]

Tofu in America is Overpriced and Overrated.

It's like pale and uninspired and so expensive.

In Asia, Tofu is the staple ingredient and deliciously prepared.

[fifi]

Using "fancy" salts in cooking. Sea salt and specialty salts sprinkled so that their texture makes a difference is a good thing. But putting them into a dish where the crystal structure dissolves is nuts.

I'm with FoodMSG on organic veggies. I would rather have the fresh picked odd variety either out of my garden or at a farmer's market (if I had one ) even if it was not strictly organic. While we try to garden as organically as possible, here in the Gulf Coast that isn't always possible if you want to eat anything out of said garden.

[fresco]

There are lots of items that are worth the money: wild salmon, pameggiano-reggiano, quality chocolate, and so on.

However, there seem to be some items that either a) get more notoriety than their flavor would recommend, and/or b) cost more than they should.

Here are some items that I think are bad values:

* vanilla extract: I've done so many dual batches of cookies now that it's just apparent that in baking Cook's Illustrated is right, pure vanilla isn't worth the money.

* dried pasta: I see no relationship between price and the quality of dried pasta.

* organic ingredients: if you have an ideological/philsophical issue with non-organic ingredients that makes sense.  But I can not find any relationship between organic anything and quality.  Some organics are good, some aren't.  There does seem to be a relationship between local, if it's freshly picked, like at farmer's markets, and quality, but not organic.

* eggs: I can't tell a damned bit of difference between eggs except by freshness

* kobe burger: makes no sense.  Almost every application of burger uses lots of flavor anyway, covering up any of the subtley of kobe beef.

I'd agree with you on most of this stuff, but dried pasta is, I've found, one of those things where you get what you pay for, more or less. The real commodity stuff is not worth eating. Pay just a little more for good pasta, almost always imported from Italy, and the difference is amazing.

Friends whose judgment I trust on food have recently tried Kobe burgers and say that there is a world of difference between Kobe and not. But they are, as I recall, quite sparing in their use of condiments.

[Mudpuppie]

There are lots of items that are worth the money: wild salmon, pameggiano-reggiano, quality chocolate, and so on.

[...]

* dried pasta: I see no relationship between price and the quality of dried pasta.

[...]

* eggs: I can't tell a damned bit of difference between eggs except by freshness

I agree with most of your examples, MSG. Two, though, stand out.

Dried pasta: I've found that some varieties cook up gummy, no matter how I try to vary the cooking times. (I'm talking long pasta here.) Two specific brands are on my bad list. I won't mention them -- just wanted to add my two cents on pasta.

As for eggs -- I agree with you that there's not much difference in the taste of eggs. Organic eggs from free-range chickens taste much eggier to me than the mass-produced variety, but this is only noticeable (to me) if I'm doing some straight-up egg thing -- scrambled, fried, boiled, etc. In cooking, I can't tell the difference.

However, there's a phenomenal difference in the way the hens are treated, and I choose to spend my money on brands that use humane production. The cost isn't that much more, so it's worth it to me. I realize not everyone would agree, but I also think not everyone realizes how bad the conditions are in factory egg farms. I won't rant here, but I have a lot to say about it.

As for overpriced and overrated, I can't tell a major difference between white sugar and fancier types, say turbinado. I just busy me the plain ol' granulated.

As for salt -- I'm a new convert to kosher. Now I can taste the difference between table salt and any other kind, and I'll never go back. I think it's moot, though, because kosher salt is anything but overpriced!

Edited January 21, 2004 by Mudpuppie (log)

[Verjuice]

-All jarred "gourmet" sauces and dips. Yuck. And almost all jarred/bottles salad dressings and marinades. Especially the designer ones: Charlie Trotter, Bobby Flay, Vong... they all taste like sugary dormitory soup stoppered in a bottle.

-Exotic fruit in the States... $2.49 for a single passion fruit at my local Whole Foods. What the heck can you do with a single passion fruit?! Also, $2.89 for one quince.

-White truffle oil. Tastes like a cheap imitation but doesn't charge like one.

-Jarred olives and cornichons. Better bought in bulk. Especially at the rate at which I consume them.

-TVP is the worst stuff on the planet and any price is too high.

-Most low-fat anythings.

-Frozen gnocchi.

[AzRaeL]

-White truffle oil. Tastes like a cheap imitation but doesn't charge like one.

No wonder i'm so not impressed with truffles.

[Human Bean]

Dried pasta: I've found that some varieties cook up gummy, no matter how I try to vary the cooking times. (I'm talking long pasta here.) Two specific brands are on my bad list. I won't mention them --

Don't tease; feel free to mention them, if only as a warning for others. For dried pasta, I find Ronzoni (domestic, not expensive AFAIK, to be good enough for me.)

I'm still thinking about the original premise of the thread, but Mudpuppie's sig reminds me of something that I always rant about: supermarket tomatoes. They're certainly not overrated, but they're definitely overpriced at ANY price. Friends don't let friends buy supermarket tomatoes. (Fresh tomatoes, that is; even an indifferent canned tomato is better than those those flavorless globs of tomato-shaped cellulose and water that supermarkets sell).

[Pan]

Here are some items that I think are bad values:

* vanilla extract: I've done so many dual batches of cookies now that it's just apparent that in baking Cook's Illustrated is right, pure vanilla isn't worth the money.

I refuse to eat anything with artifical vanilla flavor (vanillin) anymore, because it's so grossly inferior to real vanilla. So I have to disagree with you here.

However, I agree with most of your other nominations.

Edited January 21, 2004 by Pan (log)

[ExtraMSG]

I refuse to eat anything with artifical vanilla flavor (vanillin) anymore, because it's so grossly inferior to real vanilla. So I have to disagree with you here.

You should do a blind taste test with some cookies some time, Pan, even just sugar cookies. I've done it several times now on lots of people. No one can tell the difference. I was actually quite indignant when I saw CI's original article because the difference in, eg, a milkshake or ice cream is striking, but in any baked good it seems to make no difference at all. Like Fifi's issue with fancy salts in baked products. Sometimes the common sense, that something in a head to head taste test that tastes better will matter in a recipe, just isn't the case.

White truffle oil. Tastes like a cheap imitation but doesn't charge like one.

I actually like truffle oil. It's like $10 for 4 ozs, but a capfull can make a big difference. Given the price and perishability of the original, I think it's worth it as an accent, like fresh herbs (which are another thing that are worth the money).

Totally agree on jarred sauces, though. The requirements for mass production and shelf-life just can't compare with what they do in the actual restaurant. I think it actually hurts my view of their restaurants, probably unfairly, too. It's not like some Wolfgang Puck crappy sauce in the store should imply that Spago makes bad food. But for some reason it affects me.

One of the worst, imo, are the Frontera salsas. Ugh. Pace gives some of them a run for your money. And they're no where near in the same universe as any one of Bayless' recipes for salsa.

[Moopheus]

I've had good results with vanilla paste instead of extracts. Doesn't have that alchohol taste.

I completely agree with Mudpuppie about the eggs. Organic/free-range eggs aren't overpriced; "regular" eggs are too cheap.

I can taste the difference between white and turbinado sugar, and I use both. I also like Muscavado sugar, which is overpriced, but really makes a difference in baking. I guess that's sort of weird because I think $5 a pound is too much for sugar, but I use it anyway. IT really is better than regular brown sugar. Okay, so I've got like five different kinds of sugar on my shelves--that's not weird, is it? And that's not counting the syrups.

Some things just require a bit of shopping around or buying selectively--for instance, if you find a place that sells fresh tofu, it's better than the packaged kind, and costs about half as much to boot. I also don't understand why packaged seitan is so expensive when it's easy and cheap to make. (though I agree about the TVP--have had no luck turning it into anything edible)

I suppose overpriced and/or overrated can mean different things--

"luxury" items that are expensive, mainly by virtue of being luxury items, sometimes things so expensive that most people will never even eat them. Are they worth it?

Items that really are overpriced--that is the price has a high profit margin relative to cost of ingredients and manufacture (see Mrs. Field's cookie thread), that fairly or unfairly commands a 'premium' price (I think what ExtraMSG intended it to mean)

Cheap crap that doesn't seem worth buying at any price.

And of course, there's a subjective element--what's overrated to one might be ambrosia to another, and there's a so much variation in brands, fresh vs. packaged, local vs. transported, etc. that it's hard to make blanket statements.

Or have I gone and overanalyzed it?

[Pan]

I refuse to eat anything with artifical vanilla flavor (vanillin) anymore, because it's so grossly inferior to real vanilla. So I have to disagree with you here.

You should do a blind taste test with some cookies some time, Pan, even just sugar cookies. I've done it several times now on lots of people. No one can tell the difference.

Between real vanilla and vanillin? Is that what you're talking about? I can taste the difference in a chocolate bar. I gave up Hershey's some time back because of vanillin. Sure, Hershey's never was premium chocolate, but that's not my point.

[kellycolorado]

I am in the camp that thinks organic eggs are worth the extra price- When we got our eggs from an organic farm last year, the yolks were a beautiful yellow and just tasted "eggier". Plus it was important to me to know the chicken's diet and living conditions.

the Wolfgang Puck soups are way overpriced IMHO. And the ingredients aren't that impressive (additives/natural flavorings and tons of salt).

[AzRaeL]

Emerilware is overpriced and overrated.

and he puts his name of stamped knives

[TatarsHat]

Interesting topic...

The more you read here and watch food related shows etc. the more you learn about certain products out there.

I love the old staples. Give me Parmagianno-Reggiano, white truffle oil, Dried porcini's, saffron, extra vecchio Balsamic, Madagascar vanilla.. etc etc.. It is expensive but I have found a little goes a long way. I guess it is a matter of taste.

Bottled dressing? no phucking way!!! Well maybe if I was in a pinch and desperate. It is so easy to make fabulous fresh dressing.

I could ramble on..... ;-)

[cbarre02]

Home made marshmallows at specialty grocers. Sorry but they are 10 times as much as jet puff, and taste worse.

Avocadoes (tough I love them)... Half the time they are baseball in texture, and 2 for 4 dollars.

Berries in the off-season. They must add the shipping cost to the price per pound.

Some specialty honeys (though very tasty) are very over priced

Sushi... In the deli section... enough said...

Orange juice… are Minute Maid or Tropicana’s oranges really that much better.

[Mudpuppie]

Dried pasta: I've found that some varieties cook up gummy, no matter how I try to vary the cooking times. (I'm talking long pasta here.) Two specific brands are on my bad list. I won't mention them --

Don't tease; feel free to mention them, if only as a warning for others. For dried pasta, I find Ronzoni (domestic, not expensive AFAIK, to be good enough for me.)

I'm still thinking about the original premise of the thread, but Mudpuppie's sig reminds me of something that I always rant about: supermarket tomatoes. They're certainly not overrated, but they're definitely overpriced at ANY price. Friends don't let friends buy supermarket tomatoes. (Fresh tomatoes, that is; even an indifferent canned tomato is better than those those flavorless globs of tomato-shaped cellulose and water that supermarkets sell).

Woo hoo, a kindred spirit!

Okay, the pastas: Trader Joe's has, in my opinion, abysmal pasta products. Though you can buy their pastas at a great price, they're always mush. The other one on my no-no list is some sort of "natural" brand. I can't remember the exact name, but I recognize (and steer clear of) the packaging when I see it. It's something like Natural Value, or something, and is from California. Blech.

I really like DeCecco, but all the other major brands are just fine.

As for tomatoes, Amen! In most parts of the US, tomatoes should not be purchased in January. And if they are, they should be imported from much, much warmer climates. (In which case, they'd probably be justifiably expensive. But also in which case, they'd probably be bred for travel, which makes them anathema in my book.)

[Human Bean]

As for tomatoes, Amen! In most parts of the US, tomatoes should not be purchased in January. And if they are, they should be imported from much, much warmer climates. (In which case, they'd probably be justifiably expensive. But also in which case, they'd probably be bred for travel, which makes them anathema in my book.)

Wow, I must be even more of a tomato snob than you! "...should not be purchased in January..." While I might be tempted to say, "should not be purchased out of season" (ie. other than late summer), I still insist on saying, do NOT purchase supermarket tomatoes at all, EVER; you're only encouraging them. NO!!!

Maybe you can get better tomatoes in your supermarket in season; I can't. Even the local farmer's market often has inferior tomato-shaped objects, in season, at a high price. Sorry, but if you don't grow them yourself, they're rarely REAL tomatoes, except in certain rare circumstances, at least for me. [snobbery to the maximum degree; sorry, but that's the way it is.]

Get home-grown, farmer's market, or, if all else fails, canned; otherwise, don't even bother. I don't care if the supermarket tomato is organic, hydroponic, on-the-vine, and hand-harvested by virgins; it's still crap; again, don't encourage them.

Lest it not be clear, the difference between Parmigianno Regianno (sp?) and that sawdust in the green can is as nothing compared to the difference between a REAL tomato and what is sold in a supermarket as a fresh tomato.

Apologies for the rant; we now return you to the Overpriced and Overrated thread...

[ExtraMSG]

Don't get me wrong. I think there are differences in quality between pastas. I just don't think price tells you much about which one will be good.

Pan, Hershey's is your basis for giving up faux vanilla? Really, do a blind taste test. Get 5 friends together and bake some cookies. Vanilla is such a minor component of a chocolate bar, especially one as yucky as a Hershey's, that's really no test at all. Damn you music man, submit yourself to science.

Orange juice is an interesting one. My friend and I have tested this. The key to good orange juice is that it's blended with a variety of oranges adding depth. A lot of times you get "fresh squeezed orange juice" that's just from one kind of orange and honestly you might be better off with something out of a carton.

Organic eggs: around here (Portland, OR), they sell organic eggs even in chains like Safeway and Albertson's. They're even from within the state. Now, if I go to a family or friend's house who have chickens (such as my mom and my aunt) and have eggs just laid that morning, I can of course tell the difference. But that's a function, I think, of freshness more than anything. So if you can find a fresh egg supplier in your area, you'll probably get them cheaper and better. I still don't believe that organic eggs themselves are any better, though. Just haven't seen any evidence after testing it.

One organic product that is often better, I think, are creams that are less pasteurized. I don't know if it's the fact that they're organic or less pasteurized that does it, but I've picked up a couple in places like Whole Foods and Trader Joe's that were a big step up from the best stuff you can get in Safeway or Kroger. If I could find some non-organic creams that weren't ultra-pasteurized I could do a comparison, but I haven't found it yet.

AzRael, isn't Emerilware cheaper than All-Clad, Calphalon, and most of the other department store brands by a ways?

[ExtraMSG]

Speaking of tomatoes. Safeway has a sale on Muir Glens right now. Bought 4 of the large cans of whole tomatoes today for less than $2 each.

[Huevos del Toro]

Chicken Breasts !

As one eGulletier once said, "Tastes like bad tofu"

The only part of a chicken I'll still eat is the thigh. The rest can go to stock making.

[MRX]

Yes I have to agree about any sushi that is not fresh made to order, in a good sushi place (not some hybrid Chinese Take Out Sushi Counter place) is a waste of money. People who by these things premade are just asking to get sick. It's raw fish on that rice, treat it with some respect.

Vanilla, cook without it? No way.

Now, I've always found Dorito's and the other mass produced snacks overpriced and over rated - esp any premade dips.....yeeeechhhh.

[Busboy]

Caviar. I mean, the stuff is OK, but at $50/oz, I think I'd rather spend my money on something a little more memorable.