Starbucks Paris

[fresh_a]

I was speaking with the CEO of Starbucks Europe this evening who told me there were 2500 people for the opening yesterday..somez people were there at 4H30 am to get in!

[menton1]

Not surprising, since Starbucks really has modeled themselves as a quasi-European cafe anyway. They do make American concessions, such as self-service and paper cups, but that shouldn't stop the French from going there anyway--

It will also be practically the only place to get coffee "to go" (take away) in all of Paris!!

[Bux]

For many of us, the lure of Europe has been the pace, the idea of a liesurely lunch and a cup of coffee in a cafe rather than "to go." For many Europeans now, the liesurely pace of life means they can't compete in the international market. "Fast" is no longer something to be sneered.

[PS]

Starbucks in no way resembles any Parisian cafes I've been to. I've always been able to taste the coffee in the beverages I've been served in France...

[menton1]

For many of us, the lure of Europe has been the pace, the idea of a liesurely lunch and a cup of coffee in a cafe rather than "to go." For many Europeans now, the liesurely pace of life means they can't compete in the international market. "Fast" is no longer something to be sneered.

At least they don't have cup holders in their cars yet!!

[Freckles]

I think it's great Starbucks has finally arrived here in Paris. There is room for both traditional cafes, where the French sit and smoke and debate, as well as quick and convenient alternatives for those of us who want it. It can be lovely to linger for hours over a cuppa, but it's not always possible, and sometimes it's just not what one feels like doing. I, and most of my younger French friends, welcome the addition.

[Bux]

Freckles, I think you make my point. What we want as tourists traveling abroad is not what we want at home everyday and it's not what locals want all the time either. A cup of coffee to go doesn't interfere with anyone's use of a cafe. If you have time and an interest in lingering, you will sit in a cafe in spite of Starbucks. Incidently, Starbucks provides an atmosphere conducive to lingering in most of it's NYC shops. In fact, its uphostered lounge chairs are far more comfortable long term than cafe chairs. I do regret the homogenization of the world and I miss both the little mom and pop shops and the great institutions of unique quality both at home and abroad.

What Starbucks doesn't offer is really great espresso, but I'm less and less impressed with espresso in France. I prefer coffee in Italy or Spain anyway.

[Louisa Chu]

I've been wanting to go since last week but haven't had the time. Hope to make it there tonight. I'm in the mood for a giant caramel drink and an enormous cookie. I'm serious. But the only way I can justify it is walking there and back.

[Freckles]

Hear hear, Bux. I'll drink (a chai latte) to that! And hear, hear to you too, Lou. Maybe you and I will cross paths chez Starbucks un apres-midi.

[Louisa Chu]

Went by late last night - closed - closed at 21:00. But talked to the guys working there - still cleaning at 23:30. They're doing les grandes nettoyages every night - at least for now. In restaurants we usually do a big cleaning once a week - wall to wall, floor - under the floors actually - to ceiling - at ADPA we even the light fixtures. It's crazy - they know it - they know they're being watched - we talked about how we have that in common. So do they have the pistons in the States now? That's the only big coffee difference that I noticed here in Paris - versus the States. A piston that serves 2 - only 4 Euros. That and here in Paris we have HOT sandwiches - do they do hot foods in the States now? I know that was a big no-no back there - too slow. Here we have these open-faced fougasse-y based sandwiches. No creme based Frappucinos yet - still working on those. But they do have giant fist-sized muffins. And there's wi-fi in da house. Alors - I don't care about the invasion of Starbucks - hardly an invasion yet - gigantic paper cups to go - whatever - no smoking - fine by me. But the one thing I find absolutely insupportable - vraiment, vraiment insupportable - les chiens ne sont pas admis - no dogs allowed. That, mes amis, means I will not - cannot - support Starbucks in Paris.

[menton1]

"Chiens Interdit" is a big mistake-- that crossed Starbucks off my list in France; Unless they are counting on a big take away business-- Very disappointing!! France could not be France without all the dogs everywhere!!

[edm]

hygiene, anyone ?

[Pan]

If you think that permitting dogs in restaurants makes good hygiene impossible, don't go to France.

For an American, seeing dogs get fed really good human food in restaurants can take some getting used to, but it's all part of the experience of learning how people live in different lands. And isn't that one of the most interesting things about travelling?

[marlena spieler]

Chiens interdits!!!!!???????

aw, takes the fun outta havin a coffee..........

by the way, for better coffee, peets style coffee, go to rose bakery in the 9th and buy a bag of union roasters (get their revolution blend or see what other coffees they have on stock at the moment. really great coffee!).

[Louisa Chu]

hygiene, anyone ?

Because of dogs? Man, you haven't spent enough time in kitchens . Pan, you make a good point - I know more people than dogs who'd make good hygiene improbable. I've been here too long - maybe long enought - I think not having dogs in a restaurant is weird. Marlena, I know Rose! My sister loves the place - young, laid-back, good food and drink - I will try to check it out.

[Gifted Gourmet]

If you think that permitting dogs in restaurants makes good hygiene impossible, don't go to France.

For an American, seeing dogs get fed really good human food in restaurants can take some getting used to, but it's all part of the experience of learning how people live in different lands. And isn't that one of the most interesting things about travelling?

Best memory is of an elderly lady in a restaurant early on New Year's morning feeding her petit chien a chocolate croissant, and he, mangling it beyond recognition, begging for more ... it was adorable and so very French!

Hold on there, isn't it a well known fact that chocolate contains potentially fatal ingredients pour les chiens?? Zut alors!

But, as for the initial topic here, I was shocked to get out of a cab in Vienna and look up to find the familiar Starbucks logo on their branch there ... which, as Arthur Schnitzler's writing clearly attests to, is the home of the coffeehouses of the first rank in Europe ...

Perhaps I ought to have read this first ....

http://www.mascotcoalition.org/initiatives.../starbucks.html

Edited January 25, 2004 by Gifted Gourmet (log)

[edm]

Recently moved to North America from France, and i can tell you that i appreciate dogs staying outside, even though i sometimes blaim the poor pooches freezing their asses off under the rain.

If having a grumpy dog roaming in a bistro can add a colourful touch, i doubt that

i would appreciate their company in a more formal setting. Not to mention the possibility of dog hair mixing in my food.

Dogs are not kids, even though it seems people spoil them even more. They're carrying different parasites, diseases, etc (we could argue, some of those are beneficial to humans, but this isnt a medical forum).

What a backlash i'm getting for questioning the presence of pets in restaurants !

Gifted gourmet gives me a lesson about the philosophy and purpose of travelling, while recomminding me not to go to my own country. And Louisa assumes that i've never or barely been in a kitchen... sic...

(Louisa, i am a chef. I've spent a bit of time in kitchens, particularly in France)

EGullet can be great, but sometimes it seems people get a kick out of the art of debating rather than talking about food. OK, we all know the French love the chit-chat, but i'm just too disadvantaged because of the langage.

And as much as your perspective as a foreigner in France can be enlightning and refreshing at times, please dont bother explaining my own country to me.

Edited January 25, 2004 by edm (log)

[menton1]

Well, if dogs in restaurants were a hygiene issue, the 60 million people in France would all be suffering from serious maladies, not to mention that their life expectancy is about 7 years longer than the average American (sans dogs!!).

More rumor than fact, there is actually more risk to a dog's health contracting illness from humans than vice-versa. And dogs everywhere is one of the lovely things that lets you know that you are in France. It IS French culture. I think this is a mistake on Starbucks part, but at the very least they won't be seeing me in their stores in France. It would also be nice to keep the personal attacks out of this forum, edm, there is room for a difference of opinion, and Loufood has lived and worked long enough in France for hers to have merit as well.

One of my favorite vacation snapshots is a shot I took inside Galeries Lafayette of an escalator with a giant Samoyed sitting patiently waiting for the moving stairs to reach the top!! Vivent les chiens de France!!

[Pan]

Whether it is a mistake on Starbucks' part to prohibit dogs is something that won't become clear for some time. If the place is successful, though, it might be because of that, despite that, or that prohibition might have gotten some people into the store and turned off others, ending up in a wash.

edm, I'm certainly not part of a "backlash." I have no particular reason to want dogs in restaurants. All I'm saying is - well, something like what menton1 just posted. France is France, after all, and while I wouldn't join a hearty chorus of "vivent les chiens aux restaurants," I will shout "Vive la France!" with the most conviction any etranger can muster.

[hillvalley]

As someone who is allergic to dogs I find France very frustrating. Sneezing loudly while trying to spend a few hours relaxing in a cafe is very hard.

That being said, I doubt I would go to a Starbucks in France. I can understand why they would succeed, but when I am traveling I want to experience the culture of the country I am visiting, not an import from home.

I wonder if Starbucks will continue their USA tradition of having a Starbucks on every other block.

[Pan]

I wouldn't go to a Starbucks in France, either.

Fortunately, I've never had an allergic reaction to any but the longest-haired dogs. Ditto for cats.

[LaurieA-B]

I can't remember names, but when we were in Paris three years ago I saw at least a couple Starbucks-style coffee spots (with paper cups and similar menus). One was down the street from our hotel on Rue St Andre des Arts. (Then in Taipei, there was a Starbucks down the block from our hotel, across the street from "Coffee Latte," while in Bangkok we ran into "Coffeebucks" at the train station.)

[tighe]

...And dogs everywhere is one of the lovely things that lets you know that you are in France....

Dog-doo everywhere however, is not one of the more endearing aspects of Paris. It's a little hard to stroll les grands boulevards, gazing at the architecture, when you really know your eyes should be focused on the pavement directly in front of you.....

[Gifted Gourmet]

For an American, seeing dogs get fed really good human food in restaurants can take some getting used to, but it's all part of the experience of learning how people live in different lands. And isn't that one of the most interesting things about travelling?

Pan has said this much better than I .. and as for "le merde du chien" ... I personally have never seen much of it .. I think the owners probably take care of cleaning it up ... it is France, after all, and one must have standards, you realize!

[Bux]

I'm not particularly a dog person, but I've found that some of my friends' dogs have an endearing personality. I've also experienced a degree of allergic reaction especially while staying in the French home of friends whose dog sleeps by the radiator, during the winter when the windows and doors are generally kept closed. They, by the way will not take their dog to a nice restaurant, but I suppose it's because they've spoiled her at home and she can't be expected to behave as a well brought up French dog should in public. In spite of, or maybe because of all that, I've come to expect dogs in restaurants in France as much as I've come to not expect them here in the US. It's also my experience that what works for the French may not work here and vice versa. Pan has spoken well on this and because it's all part of the experience of learning how people live in different places, it's worth discussing here as long as we can avoid the personal and cultural put downs.

As for Starbucks, while in spite of allergic reactions, dogs have not been a problem for me in France, but tobacco smoke has. I'm not sure if the no smoking rule will make Starbucks more appealing or not, but I've found that when we visit Paris in the winter when cafés are sealed from the elements, we tend to take breakfasts at salons du thé as they are invariably less smokey. We do this in spite of the fact that cafés are more suited to my image of "my Paris." We, as humans, are quite adaptable. I will adapt to the smoke, or I will adapt to a revised immediate environment. I suspect the quality of the coffee will be a major factor in my ultimate choice and I have become more demanding about my coffee lately. There are few enough people who really know how to pull a good espresso and those that do, do not work at Starbucks by and large. It's my experience that Starbucks does not make its profit serving espresso either. A Viennese teenager I met the other day, wondered if she could get the hot white chocolate drink she had here, in Vienna and if she could make it at home. Maybe it's not realistic to think Starbucks is going after the traditional café market.