Four Months in France

[Schneier]

It's precisely Paris's big-city feel and the amenities and interest that go with that which make it comfortable for me. But that's natural, because I'm a New Yorker.

I'm a New Yorker, too--Although I don't live there right now--and I am leaning towards Paris for precisely those same reasons. I know it's not the same as living in the countryside, but I don't know if I can live in the countryside for four months.

I might need a big city.

Where do you go for long-term furnished rentals in Paris? And what kind of arm and a leg is it going to cost?

Bruce

[robert brown]

Bruce, you may be surprised how many Americans own apartments in Paris (and houses in provincial France), particularly academics, who want to rent them to other Americans. You may be going at a time when owners are returning back home. Alumni magazines are good places to start looking, particularly Ivy League ones. I don't think the owners ask a lot of money and you would be paying in anemic greenbacks as well. Americans may also pay a bit more attention to maintenance and creature comforts.

[Boris_A]

I'm a New Yorker, too--Although I don't live there right now--and I am leaning towards Paris for precisely those same reasons.  I know it's not the same as living in the countryside, but I don't know if I can live in the countryside for four months.

I might need a big city.

Why don't split?

2 months in Paris, 2 month countryside for more versatility.

Roberts Savoie/Haut Savoie (or Alpes de Hautes Provence) is interesting for short travels to Piedmonte.

Regards

[Zingano]

Splitting in to two month chunks sounds good to me.

If you prefer to be near cities, but want scenery, then how about Vence for two of those months? I moved here at the end of August and am finding it a near perfect combination, being close to Nice and Cannes (40 minutes drive if the traffic is good) and right next to the mountains - the start of the less populated arrière pays. If fact, as I type this I can look south down the hills and past the villas to the Med, or north east to the rocky cliffs of the Baou des Blancs - and it's a lovely sunny day . We're 30 minutes from the sea (not great beaches though) and an hour from skiing - though you'll be a bit early for that. There are some lovely walks along the GR51 with fantastic views of the coastline.

Vence is a nice sized town, with enough shops for your immediate needs - a large choice of bakers, cake shops, butchers, fishmongers, vegetable shops and so on. It even has a small English library run by volunteers. The old town is lovely, especially at dusk when the shops spill light into the narrow cobbled streets.

More info here: http://www.beyond.fr/villages/vence.html

[Schneier]

between moving to a differnent place and taking an extended vacation. I don't know, but I think I want to stay in one place.

Although moving around is definitely enticing, logistical problems aside.

Bruce

[winemike]

Paris is a good place in France because you can get anywhere

from it. If you intend to take trains, all TGVs start and end in Paris.

You'll be able to make day trips to Champagne, to Rennes (500km

from Paris but just 2h in the TGV) and other places like the Loire

region for instance.

If you do not want to travel within France, avoid Paris. The south west,

Brittany, Alsace and Provence are all very typical, very different but

it really depends on the lifestyle you want to have in France. Do you

want to live in a wine region ? Is "haute cuisine" important ? etc ..

[Schneier]

We want to live in a wine region. Cuisine is important.

Although honestly, these two criteria don't narrow it down very much.

We want a town large enough to have an Internet cafe but not one that is overrun with tourists. We want to live in town, walking distance to markets and restaurants. We want a countryside that is flat enough for easy bicycling. We want interesting things in easy driving distance (although that doesn't narrow it down very much, either).

One of my worries is renting a pig in a poke. I've been poking around the various gite sites, and I know that I won't know until I get there--and then it will be too late.

Bruce

[menton1]

Any ideas as to particular cities to be near?

The town of Sarlat-le-Canéda is a mid-sized gorgeous village with a breathtaking medieval center. Cahors is a little more modern, but has a great historic bridge over the Lot River. Either would suit you well. Both towns have fabulous Saturday Markets. Some very good restaurants, as well as a countryside phenomenon called Ferme Auberge, where all the food is grown and/or raised on the premises.

Enjoy!!

This is the kind of thing we're looking for. We want to be in town--walking distance from stores and markets. We want an Internet cafe in town. We want restaurants nearby. We'd like not to have to use a car everyday.

Bruce

Take a closer look at Sarlat and/or Cahors. Good mid-size towns that will have what you are looking for. A lot of Internet cafés. Sarlat has one of the loveliest medieval town centers in all of France. Cahors has a stunning medieval bridge, Pont Valentré. Both have large, interesting markets on Saturdays, and smaller ones on Wednesdays. And the entire Périgord/Quercy area is full of beauty, history, and great food!!

Périgord Photo Gallery

Pont Valentré

[Busboy]

Don't get me wrong, I love the place.  But getting out to the countryside gets me much farther away from the U.S. than going to Paris seems to.

For what it's worth (and no surprises here) I found Provence extraordinary, and if I were to spend four months in France would try to get a place close enough to Nice to spend occasional night in the city or weekend on the Cote d'Azure, but far enough inland to avoid the tourists (and the prices). 

I also hear that the Laguadoc offers many of the delights of Provence, with less cost and hassle.

Your advice about Paris rings true.

Where in Provence? Near which city? In which city? In the countryside?

Bruce

We stayed for a week in the small wine town of Vacqueyras, which, from your posts, would be too rustic for your four month stay: 900 people, two cafes, no Internet. On the other hand, Avignon, Isle Sur La Sorgue and Vaison-la-Romaine -- all in Vacluse -- are mid-sized towns that offer both Internet Cafes and well-know markets; Patricia Well's "home" market is in Vaison, Mayle writes at length about Isle sur la Sorgue.

I also spent four days in Nice this fall and was blown away by the food, the people and the stretch of coast between Nice and the Italian border. It's definitely a city, and a bit grimy around the edges, but I found it to have a wonderful energy, like Paris, and an exoticism that Paris lacks.

And, speaking of clean living, I ran into a couple of American Mormon missionaries in a Nice Internet cafe, so I'm sure you can find support in Nice if the decadent French lifestyle begins to tempt you.

Edited December 23, 2003 by Busboy (log)

[mnfoodie]

My wife and I are thinking about going to France for four months in the Fall.  The idea would be to rent an apartment/house somewhere and stay there.

I'm looking for suggestions on where to go.

Hello,

Wow, so the Internet (whomever you are) is offering advice on our possible extended trip to France. Umm, OK.

Bruce has explained some of what we want, and we are talking over more details. It's really still in the "dream" stage. I think any place that requires a car to buy food every day would be a great loss. Anyplace that is more than a three-hour door-to-door trip to an international airport won't work (could be trains, drive a car, some combination). We expect to bike as much as possible (though neither of us are great hill climbers), and don't expect to spend our days touristing around as much as we would on a shorter trip. I will certainly take French lessons while there, so a language school or tutor is a must. Lots of local food producers would be ideal, though Bruce thinks that they are under every rock in the country and indeed one cannot glance around without seeing a few.

Otherwise, the sorts of things we wish to get done while there will drive the location choice. We do not yet have a definite list of those activities. Are there cooking schools that would take on people like us, or do you have to be a careerist to attend Le Cordon Bleu or whatever is the local equivalent?

Access to the countryside will be important, I think.

Karen. [yes, really Mrs. Bruce, and yes, I just logged in for the first time today. I have no love for this interface, I must say]

[Louisa Chu]

Hi Karen,

Welcome to eGullet - and an early welcome to France! I graduated from Le Cordon Bleu here in Paris earlier this year and there are classes for every level. You can do everything from just sit in on a three hour demonstration - followed by a frantic little tasting of all the dishes that were prepared - to taking the 10 week Basic Cuisine or Basic Patisserie class - or classes - hey, you are here for a whole four months. Have a great time planning - and experiencing - your stay.

[Busboy]

Welcome.

To what I've already mentioned, I'd suggest soliciting weather advice from some of the more expereinced travellors here. If you're going to be there in the fall/winter and hoping to do a lot of cycling and rambling through the countryside, some of the suggestions posted here may not work.

[Schneier]

I graduated from Le Cordon Bleu here in Paris earlier this year and there are classes for every level.

Are the classes all in French, or are there English-language classes as well?

Bruce

[mnfoodie]

I graduated from Le Cordon Bleu here in Paris earlier this year and there are classes for every level. You can do everything from just sit in on a three hour demonstration - followed by a frantic little tasting of all the dishes that were prepared - to taking the 10 week Basic Cuisine or Basic Patisserie class

How much French do you need to take those classes? I speak just a tiny bit of French, though I'm conversational in Spanish, and knowing one aids learning the other.

I'm a former Food Service Professional, with about 14 years experience either cooking or waitressing/training, but I don't know where I'd start in a real cooking school. I'm mostly a hack in the kitchen, but I'm really fast.

Also, I'd much rather take classes apart, so we don't have to keep track of each other while in school. Does this sound like something that would be possible?

Thank you for the warm welcome!

Karen. [off to see to the chicken stock on the stove: I'm making soup as part of our Christmas buffet]

[mnfoodie]

Welcome.

To what I've already mentioned, I'd suggest soliciting weather advice from some of the more expereinced travellors here. If you're going to be there in the fall/winter and hoping to do a lot of cycling and rambling through the countryside, some of the suggestions posted here may not work.

Thanks for the welcome.

I think we'd be fine, because we live in Minnesota and We're Not Afraid To Go Outside When It's Cold Out. We even Know What To Do When It Snows.

In a previous October, we biked the Loire Valley. It was lovely and warm, not like the weather here at all.

Karen. [Onward to my soup, I really mean it this time]

[Louisa Chu]

Karen, at Le Cordon Bleu Paris all Basic and Intermediate demos are taught in French with an English translator - but all practicals and all Superior classes are in French only. Of course it helps to speak French but there's usually someone multilingual in every group - and it really helps if you have some cooking/baking experience and are observant with a good memory. I'd say start with a visit to the school and sit in on a few demos. And for most programs you could take classes separately. But you've got until next year - enough time to learn French before you get here!

[Bux]

Everyone is of course, correct. This is a highly subjective decision and I'm probably not going to be your best adviser. I'm a restless sort. Years ago I made it a habit to be on the move in France. I fell in love with the country hotels and inns and enjoyed nothing more than the anticipation of a new one each night. In many ways, living out of a suitcase is a deplorable way to live and I'm growing tired of driving, but much of my time in France is still spent moving around.

For several reasons we had at one time given up on Paris where the restaurants are more elegant in favor of the provinces where the food is better and less expensive, but we returned one year and realized how rewarded I was just to be able to walk on Parisian streets. Paris is not NY or London any more than it is France. It's Paris. It's urban and urbane in a way no place else in France is. I like Lyon. I like it a lot, but it's not Paris.

My recommendation would be to spend about half your time in Paris, maybe a bit less than half and do a variety of things with the rest of the time. Get a place in different areas for two or three weeks. Spend some time touring in an area either from a base or by using hotels. Time and the seasons are everything. I strongly would advise not being in the Perigord/Dordogne or Provence/Riviera in August because of the level of tourism. Charming towns in the winter become honkytonk side show in August. Paris can be hot and humid in August and overrun with tourists. I'd opt for I wouldn't avoid tourist destinations or resort areas, but I'd opt for one that might be lower key such as the Savoie, Pays Basque, Gascony or Brittany.

I have mixed feelings about the Languedoc. The coast is rather cheesey and very newly over developed in most places. We spend some time there because we have friends who live in the area part of the year. The Bas Languedoc and the south coast of Brittany, where we have extended family as a result of our daughter's marriage to a Breton. We enjoy suspending our movement for a short week or so because we have a social life of different sorts in both places. In the Languedoc, we get the chance to cook and shop. It makes the markets a lot more meaningful, but in spite of, or because of, that opportunity, I've been no more eager to rent a place for my vacation. For one thing, I don't really like cooking in other people's kitchens, using other people's pots, pans, knives, etc. It's also worth noting that French kitchens tend to be small and under equipped by American standards. It's also true that in towns of any size, you don't have to cook much as epiceries and charcuteries will have all sorts of things that can be served cold or heated up at home.

At any rate, I get the sense that you want to be in Paris, more than you want to be in a rural house. I could be wrong and it could be that the ideal situation would be a combination. Once you leave Paris and the other cities of France, I think you will need a car. Even in small towns where your food shopping and restaurant needs may be met in town, I think you will be cooped up for more than a week or two without a car in most parts of France. At some point, whether you tour or use a rental property as a base in the provinces, I think you will want to see the coutnryside and want a car.

[Bux]

Karen, I started my reply above a bit earlier and was interrupted by a visit and some chores. I finished my post without checking the thread for progress. Welcome to eGullet. I'm sorry you don't like the interface, but I can assure you there's a lot of good information to be had here. Unfortunately, the burden will be on you and Bruce to separate the wheat from the chaff. Not all the advice will be good and not all the food advice will be applicable.

You might also check into the Ritz-Escoffier cooking school. My daughter took two months of classes there. They were week long sessions but two months will enable one to complete a series and get some sort of diploma. She had no intention of ever becoming a professional when she enrolled, but actually ended up cooking in top restaurants in NY for a while. I don't have any strong feeling about this school in regard to any others, but just offer it as another option in Paris. I also know of a place in Gascony that offers one week classes in a wonderful rural setting if that is of any interest.

Most of the snow that falls in France, falls on the higher elevations. That doesn't mean we haven't run into blizzards in Burgundy or awoken in an inn not far from Paris to find it had snowed a couple of feet overnight on the morning we were due to fly home. The west coast of France is very temperate for it's lattitude. I've seen palm trees in Brittany, in sheltered locations. There's swath of France running along the Garonne River and Canal du Midi that never seems to get very cold. Rain and dreary Gray skies are more the problem in November, especially in Paris and the north.

[Mrs. B]

If I took good notes, I see these as your parameters:

Four months: August, September, October and November

You don't want to have to use a car everyday

You like bicycling

Would like to be near markets and good restaurants

cooking school facility would be nice

House/apt. with one bedroom and a good kitchen a must

You are leaning towards Paris

August and September can be really awful in Paris, full of tourist, some of the better restaurants are closed in August and most apartments do not have A/C. If it were me, I would go for those two months to the Southwest of France - the Basque area or Gascony. We've travelled throughout all of France at different times of the year and I hated Provence with the millions of tourists, and Sarlat was so overrun you had to park almost outside the city limits. Savoie is great weatherwise but not near a lot of places if you intend to do sidetrips (all winding roads and/or large highways) and not condusive to bicycling. The Loire Valley is great for cycling but hot and humid in August, you could do a side trip from Paris (either by train and they will take bikes or by car with a roof rack). If you decide you'd do these two months in the countryside I will give you suggestions on areas that IMHO would be interesting for bicycling (I used to be travel director of the American Youth Hostels and planned bicycle trips). I would lean towards Lyon and southern Burgundy.

October and November would be great in Paris. There are a couple of good companies, which are trustworthy, with apartments for rent there. Depending on the area or arrondissement they will vary in price tremendously. I don't think you will find a very large kitchen in any apartments there. All of our friends kitchens have been small, like small NY apartments. There are markets in all areas and needless to mention, zillions of great restaurants.

As for cooking schools, loufood mentioned Cordon Bleu and Bux mentioned the Ritz Escoffier both in Paris. Bux also mentioned a small school in Gascony which we know quite well and if you are interested I can give you more information later.

[Jonathan Day]

I think your idea about staying in one place is actually a very good one. There are increasing levels of understanding and familiarity with an area that you can attain in the course of a long stay -- getting to know the rhythms of a village, experiencing some of the cycle of the agricultural and religious year, getting to know the tradespeople. We've always preferred to create a "home base" and venture out from there, mostly on day trips, rather than moving from place to place.

I would also echo your concern about getting "a pig in a poke" -- to the point that it might be worth arranging a reconnaissance trip, including a short stay, just to check the place out. The kind of property to avoid is a pure investment play, one whose owners never visit. Many, though not all, of the gites de France fall into this category, and they can prove very run down. Also remember that, especially in the provinces, French notions of comfort can be different to American: we've rented farmhouses with no soft chairs or sofa in the house at all, just a long wooden table with wooden chairs. Do try to make contact with the owners and find out how often they use the properties themselves.

Don't expect a fancy kitchen in a French rental property. Many French domestic kitchens are very simple: two burner hob, small oven. The good news is that they also tend to be practical, and furnished with workable tools rather than toys. Our first Paris apartment had a tiny kitchen, but it had one of every truly needful item: wooden cutting board, sharp knife, saucepan, enameled cast-iron casserole, nicely seasoned saute pan, etc.

Bonne chance et bon voyage!

[Bux]

My impressions of Parisian weather differ a bit from Mrs. B's although we've been there at the same time. Paris can become quite nice early in September and the winter grayness sets in as early as October. By November the sky can adopt that almost opaque milky quality that seems pervasive for much of the winter. When weighing the pros and cons of the seasons, it's also worth noting that Paris is on a lattitude well north of NY. (Barcelona is online with NY) Although the temperatures are probably a bit more temperate than NY on both ends of the thermometer, there is a fair difference in the length of daylight. By the end of September, there's a noticeable shortening of daylight. Some people forget how much drizzle we had early last October because they had a good time. On the other hand does it matter much if it rains or the day is short if you're having fun. Actually, I dislike hot and humid more than anything and have enjoyed Paris in October, November, December and January. There's nothing more welcoming than a nice well lit restaurant with good food on a dark evening.

No recommedation for the Basque Country of France should be made without mentioning one of it's best features--it's not far from the really enticing restaurants around San Sebastian.

[Louisa Chu]

It snowed here in Paris this morning - but turned to rain by afternoon. My favourite season here is winter - especially Christmas, New Year's - I can't believe it's Galettes des Rois season again - and then there are the crepes in February. To me, winter is feasting season.

[docsconz]

No recommedation for the Basque Country of France should be made without mentioning one of it's best features--it's not far from the really enticing restaurants around San Sebastian.

The same can be said from the Dordogneand Languedoc and Catalunya. Roses is a hop, skip and a jump from the border. But then Schneier is fortunate enough to be visiting there in June . That could be a good opportunity to check out a rental in the Dordogne or Languedoc.

[Mrs. B]

My impressions of Parisian weather differ a bit from Mrs. B's although we've been there at the same time.

We've been in Paris so many times and each time the weather has been different. One can only generalize weather conditions but August is always awful in Paris. September can vary and go one way or the other. And yes, one can forget that it rained or it was cloudy two out of the five days we were there last October. Actually, we expected rain all the time, so the three sunny days were so unexpected they've stayed on my mind.

[edm]

Ah... la Galette des rois !!! I wish i was in Paris !

As it has not been suggested yet, i would recommand Toulouse.

It's the fourth biggest city in France but still feels like a village. It has gorgeous architecture, beautiful streets to wander, and the Garonne river to walk along. Enough restaurants, bouchers, poissoneries, boulangeries, markets of quality to keep you happy.

Beautiful flat countryside to cycle. Some very interesting wine regions to discover : Gaillac, Cahors, the Gers (wine+Armagnac, foie-gras...), the Roussillon (Minervois, Fitou, Cotes de Roussillon, Banyuls...) and the Languedoc a bit further...

The rugged Pyrennees mountains : 1-hour drive. An i strongly recommand the spanish Pyrenees (the Aragon region is enchanting, forgotten, addictive)

The mediterranean : 1h30

The Bordeaux region : 2h

And the TGV keeps Montpellier, marseille, Bordeaux are very reasonable distances. And Paris is a 5 hours ride.

There are lots to see down there, without doubt less tourists, less pricey...

More authentic ?

Consider Toulouse, its would be a great home-base !