Upstate Ethnics

[docsconz]

Depending on one's definition of ethnic food, it may be difficult to come by in parts of upstate NY. Italian and chinese are probably the most ubiquitous with varying quality and may be considered mainstream along with french (I know this is debatable). Hispanic, non-Italian or French and non-chinese asian are more difficult to find and african almost non-existent. These are what I am focusing on with this thread.

My favorites in northeastern NY are probably Mikado in Glens falls, Thai-Sushi Garden in Saratoga and Yono's in Albany. I have yet to find any really good mexican or hispanic restaurants upstate. Any thoughts?

[woodburner]

I find El Loco, located on Madison, very good for Mexican type cusine. It is not truly authentic, but they have some very good offerings. It is very small inside, and usually full. As a side bar, in my lightly uninhabited neck of the woods, I now have an authentic small mexican grocery store where I am. The migrant farm workers, love the place, as do I.

El Loco

I used to frequent Yono's when he was on Hamilton, but have not been up the new location as of yet.

woodburner

[slkinsey]

Why do you think there aren't as many ethnic places upstate? Is it the case that there aren't enough people of these ethnicities living out there? I have always found it interesting that there can be areas that have fairly large concentrations of certain ethnic groups and still have no good restaurants associated with that group. I've been in some midwestern cities with sizeable Asian populations and no good Asian restaurants. It also strikes me as odd that, even in Manhattan with its huge Dominican population, Dominican restaurants are fairly scarce.

[phaelon56]

Good points made all around. Is it possible that some cultures have some specific entrepeneurial traditions or have developed them for longer? (e.g. there are plenty of Chinese restaurants all over the place, even in communities with very few Asian families). I'd guess that there are plenty of Dominican owned bodegas in NYC. Or.... are cultures that have a tradition of dining out or buying prepared food out more likely to have a better developed base of restaurants? I'm clueless about this.

Syracuse has a very small Mexican population and only one restaurant that has good Mexican food. That would be Alto Cinco but it's not traditional Mexican - more like hip bistro fare with some very good Mexican and Mexican influenced dishes on the menu. We have a few "real" Mexican restaurants also - Juanita's, which is over the hill and newcomer Jalapeno's, which is trying hard and has potential but lacks atmosphere and spiciness (at least they use shredded beef instead of ground beef in the enchiladas and burritos, unlike Juanita's.

Syracuse has three... count 'em.... three Puerto Rican restaurants. Their gradual appearance has seemed to directly parallel the gradual growth of the Hispanic population. Likewise, as the Hmong and Vietnamese population in this area increased and became more affluent, eventually there were (and still are) three Vietnamese restaurants. Unfortunately, the Puerto Rican places are in most cases not open at all in the evening and in others are closed by 7 PM. Even gettoing takeout at that time is not always ideal because the freshest food seems to be prepared and served by early to mid afternoon.

I no longer consider Chinese or Italian to be "ethnic" dining as they are so mainstream and ubiquitous in this area. We do have two Polish restaurants, both good, a few soul food restaurants that are very inconsistent, two Indian, one Greek and several Thai. Apart from the Thai restaurants, none of the others seem to be thriving. They hang in there but that's about all.

Rochester has an Ethiopian place but I won't be trying that until I have a few people to join me - sharing is one of the most enjoyable aspects for me when I enjoy Ethiopian food.

Have we considered the socioeconomic/cultural factors? Syracuse is a very nuch a blue collar town in many respects. less so than in the past but that aura still lingers. Is it conceivable that overall educational level of the population, income levels and the experiences afforded by that income (i.e. travel and exposure to other cultures) have a direct bearing on how werll the market support ethinc restaurants.

There are some cuisines that, with a moderate amount of marketing effort, would have broad appeal even in conservative areas like Syracuse. I have yet to meet a meat eater who doesn't love Peruvian style grilled chicken. Just a thought...

[jogoode]

I went to college in Poughkeepsie, NY, and found some really great Mexican food. A lot of small spots, usually in the back of tiny grocery stores, for tacos and tamales. One un-signed restaurant was authentic enough to serve quesadillas that were more like empanadas, filled with calf brains, zucchini flowers, or huitlacoche. Good West Indian/Carribean/Jamaican food, too -- also served in grocery stores. Oxtail, saltfish and ackee, peanut porridge.

[docsconz]

The further upstate one goes from NYC and the more rural the area the more homogenous it is. The area where I live (Glens Falls) is fairly homogenous, but getting less so every year. It is a very difficult restaurant area. In the past ten years Glens Falls had two different Thai and two different Indian restaurants, all of which were good and all of which failed despite my attempts at providing them business. Surprisingly, we have had a japanese-korean restaurant that has been in business for over twelve years, although I'm not sure how they are surviving.

The area is fairly blue collar and does not seem to be too interested in trying new (to them) things. Fortunately, Saratoga isn't too far away. That has a much better restaurant environment.

[suzilightning]

I went to college in Poughkeepsie, NY, and found some really great Mexican food. A lot of small spots, usually in the back of tiny grocery stores, for tacos and tamales. One un-signed restaurant was authentic enough to serve quesadillas that were more like empanadas, filled with calf brains, zucchini flowers, or huitlacoche. Good West Indian/Carribean/Jamaican food, too -- also served in grocery stores. Oxtail, saltfish and ackee, peanut porridge.

po-town has such a large, not so underground (il)legal immigrant population as does newburgh across the river.

down near main there are several good groceries and, if iremember rightly, there is at least one tortilla factory tucked away - maybe over near dutchess county jail?

there is also a Yono right off the throughway exit at as you head for 84 - it's been there at least 15 years.

on salt point turnpike in poughkeepsie is one of the better french restaurants - le pavillion

[woodburner]

Philosphies aside, some best kept ethnic food secrets, are at churches and places of worship.

woodburner

[jogoode]

there is at least one tortilla factory tucked away - maybe over near dutchess county jail?

Tortilla factory! Where were you when I needed you?

[Bux]

Plattsburgh, or is it Plattsburg, used to have a pretty decent Lebanese restaurant if I'm not mistaken. I'm going back at least twenty years ago when my daughter went to camp in the Aidrondaks and we passed though Plattsburg a couple of times. It wasn't really memorable food, but it was suprising to find a Lebanese restaurant there.

[GordonCooks]

Rochester's Chinese restaurants are all but gone. Blame the all-you-can-eat buffets for people preferring quantitiy over quality. We have decent Thai/Vietnamese (3 places), excellent Puerto Rican (albeit not in places you may want to venture to), a couple of decent Indian Places, Excellent Greek, Scores of family run italian joints, even more Pizza places, excellent Japanese, etc. We still lack a good seafood restaurant, a decent Korean place, and an authentic mexican restaurant.

[chickenlady]

Plattsburgh, or is it Plattsburg, used to have a pretty decent Lebanese restaurant if I'm not mistaken. I'm going back at least twenty years ago when my daughter went to camp in the Aidrondaks and we passed though Plattsburg a couple of times. It wasn't really memorable food, but it was suprising to find a Lebanese restaurant there.

Plattsburgh (with the "H") is sadly lacking in both the ethnic cuisine and restaurant catagories. This is, of course, ignoring the ubiquitous Italian-American restaurants and Chinese buffets (3!). Certainly no Lebanese food to be found anywhere nearby.

We have a decent greek diner and an interesting mexican-inspired restaurant. Even checking my phone book, which covers the resort areas, the most exotic I see are two other Mexican restaurants in Saranac Lake and Lake Placid. I've heard decent things about the one in Saranac Lake, but haven't eaten there yet myself.

Happily, I can be enjoying the gastronomic revelry that is Montreal in less than 45 minutes, depending on border traffic.

[v. gautam]

To Phaelon 56 and GordonCooks,

Could you please supply the names of the Puerto Rican and some of the other restaurants in Syracuse and Rochester? Re: Vietnamese in Syracuse, I know of Mai Lan: how good is it and what are the other two? Thanks and happy holidays

gautam

[phaelon56]

Happy Holidays to you too. I'm sure Gordon can help you with Rochester. The only ethnic I've personally tried in Rochester is Mamasan's, a Viet-Thai place. Pretty good food and a few items I haven't seen elsewhere including sour curry, a rather interesting flavor combination.

Syracuse:

IMHO Mai Lan has gotten very overpriced. I love the lady who runs it - she's a sweetheart - the whole family is nice. Regrettably, I've gotten dishes other than the ones I ordered on a few occasions last year and they also screwed up the iced coffee w/condensed milk. Not sure what's going on there but I'm now a regular at New Century on Kirkpatrick Street.

As you're heading north on Salina from downtown Syracuse turn right on Kirkpatrick and go about four blocks up - it's on the right (Kirpatrick is a few blocks past Assumption Church and just before Aunt Josie's restaurant. New Century is good and moderately priced. Great pho, very good spring rolls and the iced coffee is the best I've had anywhere. I especially like their broken rice dishes and also the House Fried Rice. It's not at all like Chinese fried rice and is worth a try. The third place is Saigon Cafe on Park Street about four blocks south of Kirkpatrick. Nice enough people and the atmosphere is okay but the food's just not as good. It's in the original Danzer's location if you're familiar with Syracuse restaurant history.

I've tried two Puerto Rican restaurants and know of a third. The original is Don Juan cafe at the corner of Grand Ave and South Geddes. Take West Fayette or Erie Blvd West out of downtown Syracuse, left on Geddes and go about a 1/2 mile or so - Grand sort of "Y"s off to the right. there's a small relatively new brick plaza with two buildings that has a carwash, laundromat and Don Juan. Look for the green awning. I tried them four of five years ago when they first opened and then again this summer. I thought they were not as good this time - the roast pork portion was still generous but not as tasty. They used to have frozen pasteleo's at a reasonable price that I loved keeping at home in the freezer but now have them only around the holidays.

Across the street about 100 feet past Grand on the left is Las Delicias - really nice and friendly family operation. I had sopa de pollo, salad and stewed chicken with yellow rice. generous portions and moderate prices. Both of these places tend to close early (sometimes earlier than 7 PM andf on occasion I find that they're not even open).

The third "Spanish" place is on the West Street arterial by the corner of Adams. This is a few hundred feet before West Street hits Onondaga - it's on the north side of the street.

Syracuse has three Jamaican restaurants and I can happily recommend The Jerk Huk (aka Bongo's place). It's on South Ave on the left about three blocks past where South Ave begins at West Onondaga Street. It's directly across the street from the Southwest Community Center - some think of this as a tough neighborhood (there is a bit of truth to this) but I've never ever had a problem and the people inside (both staff and customers) have always been very nice. The Jerk Fish in particular is exceptional and very hot. I also them by recommend the bean pie that is supplied to them by a local mosque - it's wonderful.

I cannot recommend Mama Gee's at Fayette and Columbus both because it's a rough corner and they usually seem to be out of almost everything except one or two items (and since when is a Jamaican restaurant out of patties? They're almost always out and and it prompts me to wonder if it's just a front for something). Aquarius restaurant is on South Salina just south of Brighton but even I won't get out of the car at this corner to walk in there - translation is that this is VERY tough spot - not worth the trouble.

There are two, possibly three soul food restaurants in Syracuse. The only one of the current three that I've tried is Ruby's and apart from excellent collard greens I was unimpressed. Lots of turnover in soul food places - the Davis Family restaurant is gone as is Smitty's. Smitty had killer fried chicken and I'll soon try the two newer places to see if one measures up.

[Pan]

I'm happy to see that report that there are some good Thai places in Rochester now. When I tried out for Eastman for grad school in 1988, an ostensibly Thai place that people seemed to unanimously rave about and which was crowded served me one of the worst meals of my life. That and the reaction to snow in that city were two things that caused me not to want to live in Rochester at the time.

The last time I was in Harrisburg, I ate at a terrific Indian restaurant that was the hotel restaurant of the Quality Inn Waterfront and wrote it up on the Pennsylvania forum. Considering how many hotels are owned by Indians of the Patel clan, are there some good hotel-connected Indian restaurants in upstate communities?

[jogoode]

I was dying for good Indian while I was in Poughkeepsie. Always meant to check out Jaipore Royal Indian in Brewster. Menu looks pretty interesting, with some Keralan dishes...(And they have a cauliflower dish that sounds a little like the one at Amma.) Anyone ever go?

[GordonCooks]

To Phaelon 56 and GordonCooks,

Could you please supply the names of the Puerto Rican and some of the other restaurants in Syracuse and Rochester? Re: Vietnamese in Syracuse, I know of Mai Lan: how good is it and what are the other two? Thanks and happy holidays

gautam

The best Puerto Rican restaurant is in a very undesirable area unfortunately. What types of ethnic were you interested in?

[mikeyrad]

Don't let your property become unsightly, keep your lawn neatly mowed.

Don't mow your lawn too early on the weekend.

Oh, that's upstate ethics...

Never mind.

[sacre_bleu]

Buffalo does offer a few ethnic notables.

Fastfood 99 is excellent blue-collar Vietnamese downtown and near the UB Main Street Campus. There's bare-bones but tasty Korean on Niagara Falls Boulevard and good full-service Korean (including BBQ tables) in Amherst. There's two sushi restaurants (one, called "O," is sushi-plus) worth the wasabi, one in Buffalo and another in Amherst. A noodle bowl-sushi roll place downtown, at Delaware and Chippewa.

Two or three decent Thai places, none mind-blowing.

There's Pakistani Indian on Transit Road (including the only dosas I know of in Western New York.) There's a couple of Jamaican/West Indies places and a bunch of Indian places that haven't captured my fancy at all.

No Mexican worth talking about, a few so-so Puerto Rican/Dominican places on the West Side, and one Chinese place a notch above cookie-cutter takeout joints (Chang's, in Amherst). Meaning, if there's a good Chinese Chinese (as opposed to American Chinese) place in WNY, I haven't found it, despite desperate searches.

An excellent resource for Buffalo diners: Bill Rapaport's Buffalo Restaurant Guide (which includes places across WNY and Southern Ontario).

Edited January 2, 2004 by sacre_bleu (log)

[docsconz]

Thanks for the Buffalo info, sacre-bleu, and welcome to eGullet!

[GordonCooks]

Buffalo does offer a few ethnic notables.

There's two sushi restaurants (one, called "O," is sushi-plus) worth the wasabi, one in Buffalo and another in Amherst. A noodle bowl-sushi roll place downtown, at Delaware and Chippewa.

I know the chef at "O". He used to be at Osake before they got the new place. He's probably one of the best Fusion chefs in the area.

[Pan]

The last time I was in Buffalo (which I believe was in November 2001), I had a very good Greek lunch at Town, I believe it was called, not far from Orchestra Hall. Is the place still there, is it still a good Greek diner, and does a Greek place that serves good moussaka and avgolemano soup count for "ethnic" to you?

[sacre_bleu]

Re: O chef

Dave Jun is a swell fella who has really added something to the Buffalo scene. He's responsible for the noodle bowl place (Osake) and reopened Blu on Main Street. I wish he'd do a whole-hog Korean place but there may not be the market.

[sacre_bleu]

Re: Towne Diner (for Pan)

It's still open (at Allen and Elmwood) and still serving Greek standards into the wee hours. For Buffalo, that's ethnic.

Their food is a bit shopworn for my tastes but then again I'm fortunate enough to be fed in actual Greek and Macedonian households.

They did commit one unforgiveable sin the last time I was there, however. Ordered the gyro-and-feta omelet, got feta-and-seasoned-pressed-ground-beef. If I was a proper Greek, someone would have had their head lopped off with a sabre, "Opa!"