Brooklyn Mobilize!

[jogoode]

I loved these Brooklyn Italian spots. How expensive is the rest of the menu?

[wannabechef]

I loved these Brooklyn Italian spots. How expensive is the rest of the menu?

I just found their website acutally - complete with photos and prices. It's not really expensive comparably - just more than what you'd expect to pay at a semi-random Italian joint in Brooklyn. But I feel its worth it.

[Moopheus]

Have you had the fresh mozzeralla from A&S Pork Store on 5th ave in Park Slope? I was so pleased to discover this a few months ago and declared it some of the best I've had!

I hope that this isn't true. I'll try it again soon and find out. Even if it has gone downhill, I still think it's the best in the Slope though. Better than Russo's and Fratelli.

I had some from A&S just a few days ago, and now that you mention it, it didn't seem quite as good as the first time I went there (about a year ago), though I haven't bought it frequently enough to really be sure. It was still good cheese, maybe a little less salt? Not sure. A couple of times I've gone in there and they've given me a piece out of the brine vat in the back; this last time it was a piece that was wrapped on the counter. Don't know if that would make much of a difference. Haven't tried the cheese from Fratelli, usually just go there for bags of tortellinis, or raviolis if it's been a good week.

[KatieLoeb]

Thanks for reporting about this place.  I've been curious about it ever since I read about it at Herbacidal's urging.

I like the idea of a true "tapas-type" bar with little plates and great wines by the glass.  And the business model is brilliant!  Avoids many of the pitfalls that put newbie restaurants out of business in their first year of operation.

It is a cool business model, isn't it. I haven't taken a look in lately, but I hope they are getting customers. Can you be more specific about the "pitfalls" it avoids? I need to learn about that kind of stuff.

Well - the thing that shuts down most startup operations is drowning in OVERHEAD. The Managers/owners are on salary and spend their time sourcing the product. No need for skilled cooking labor at extravagant salary. No Executive Chef means no huge salary to pay. The only people you need in the kitchen are a couple of hourly paid dishwashers/prep cooks that are plating the stuff and running the racks of little plates and glassware through the dishwasher. The rest of your staff (waiters, bartenders, bussers [if you even need bussers]) are tipped employees that are getting paid less than minimum wage. Your payroll costs are about half what they'd be under the "usual" circumstances.

Without a stove you don't have to pay for the utilities to run it (gas or electric), you don't have to pay to have the hoods cleaned weekly, you don't have to pay to have your Fryolator oil hauled away each week, etc. You've cut down the "usual" expenses tremendously.

By not having a conventional stove set up, you make for a better tenant, that doesn't have to rig the commercial space with vents and hoods and fans, etc. You won't be leaving a greasy film behind you if you ever move/close etc. You may be able to negotiate a much better deal on the rent because you aren't altering or "damaging" the space in any way. All you really need is a dishroom with a long prep table in it, refrigeration, and a lot of storage space with racks in it as your canned/dry goods area. But you don't need the usual long list of expensive equipment with expensive upkeep.

It's bloody brilliant, really. The very things that are the usual downfall of a new venture have been cut down or completely cut out of the equation. These dudes are pretty clever!

[Cathy-Ann]

I'm quite thrilled to see this thread about Brooklyn! I've lived in Boerum Hill for 3 1/2 years now, and find I need an event to make an effort to eat out in Manhattan.

I'm most excited about Chestnut, although the one time I ate there, the dessert (a rather dry, lackluster chocolate cake) did not quite live up to the excellent quality of the rest of the meal.

No one has mentioned Caserta Vecchia on Smith Street in this thread (though I believe it's been talked about elsewhere on the boards). It's one of my favorite restaurants on the row. The place is run by a warm, welcoming family owned by 2 cousins from Naples, with various nieces and nephews waiting tables. Christmas-time, they wrapped small plates of sweets (strufoli, I believe) baked by an aunt that morning, and gave them out to each departing guest! Their brick oven pizza is thin-crusted, delicious, and best eaten in situ, while their entrees (which I've only recently started trying since it's been so hard to tear myself away from the pizza) are well seasoned and quite tasty. As an appetizer, I can't resist their grilled/roasted vegetables: it's amazing what lots of olive oil and a wood-fired oven can do for a platter of eggplant, peppers, and squash! My only quibble is that their selection of wines by the glass could use some more choices.

I agree with jogoode about Sample (I would quote, but being a newbie, can't quite figure it out.) It can get a bit expensive for dinner, but it's perfect for a pre/post movie snack and a glass of wine.

[jogoode]

I'm most excited about Chestnut, although the one time I ate there, the dessert  (a rather dry, lackluster chocolate cake) did not quite live up to the excellent quality of the rest of the meal.

Welcome Cathy-Ann!

I had that same chocolate cake the other day and thought its dryness might have been an aberration. I guess not. But their house-made coffee ice cream is very good.

I've never been to Caserta Vecchia. What's the cross street?

[Cathy-Ann]

I've never been to Caserta Vecchia. What's the cross street?

Between Butler and Baltic, just 2 blocks from the subway.

[Pan]

Sounds like Caserta Vecchia should be on the Pizza Survey list. Is their brick oven coal-fired? What types of pizzas are available?

[Cathy-Ann]

Hmmm (pleading my ignorance), the brick oven usually has a couple of logs blazing merrily away - not sure if that automatically means "wood-fired" or there's more to it than that.

Their pizzas are small 12 inch deals, and the menu divides them into two categories: Classiche and Fantasie. I'm partial to the Classiche side: Margherita, Quattro Stagione, Marinara (no cheese, and no skimping on the anchovies either!) Quattro Formaggi. Fantasie means not-so-traditional Arrabiata, Mediterraneo (seafood), Nutella & pear, and gasp! Hawaiian. As I mentioned, crusts are thin but not overly so, with a nice chew. The pizzaiolo used to work for Tony May at Gemelli in the WTC before 9-11; I'm glad he decided to branch out in my neighborhood.

I'm hesitant to recommend them for the Pizza Survey list without another eGulleteer seconding the motion: they're not as good as DiFara's (who is?) but still hold their own. Is that enough?

[Pan]

Yes, I think that's enough, though I can't see getting a Hawaiian or Nutella & Pear pizza.

[mjr_inthegardens]

So I had dinner with my gf and her family yesterday at blue star on Court Street in Brooklyn.. (former Latin Grill space)

the restaurant opened recently essentially moves the seafood/raw bar restaurant "whim" from off a side street to a prime court st location.. The chef remains the same, along with his borderline bizarre compulsion to continually play the grateful dead and his emphasis on fresh seafood. (We were six and a baby and although a high chair was available, the baby was content to remain the stroller)

Started with oysters and peel & eat shrimp --- 12 oysters for $19, a mix of kumumoto, malpeque and another eastern oyster. I just got to grab one malpeque but it was fresh and the oysters were served with choice of a tomato or blue liquid sauce concoction, both made fresh. Peel & eat were just old bay seasoned but were nice sized. I usually like peel & eat a bit more spicy.

Several people had the curried salmon with coconut rice and spinach and really enjoyed it. The vegetable sides (salads, mixed veg and spinach) that came with each fish were pretty consistently good. The salmon was generously sized and well cooked.

I had a yellowfin tuna with wasabi ice cream and a red fruit sauce of some kind. It was a dish that was once featured at whim. It really didn't do the ingredients justice. I'm sure the tuna was fine, but the searing texture was lost as it was bottom down in the plate's bath of sweet red fruit sauce. Whereas the wasabi ice cream at whim was served in a scoop in a small steel bowl, here it was dripped through the other sauce, so the individual tastes of the sauce, fish and fruit were commingled and not to positive effect. Pretty forgettable from a portion and taste perspective. Could be vastly improved by separating the ice cream, reducing sauce qty by 1/2, adding a little more tuna and keeping the seared tuna separate from the sauce.

Other parties had an atlantic cod & a grilled whole dragonfish. I didn't taste though. Desserts included a fresh apple cobbler with vanilla IC & a banana bread with caramel IC -- simple and delicious.

There aren't too many seafood places in CG, so I'm glad that this new large place with fresh fish emphasis opened. If the chef concentrates on cooking and not harassing the customers with trivia about Jerry Garcia's last meal hopefully this place will be good.

Note: they are having live bluegrass by the cobble hillbillies on Saturday afternoons. They also play thursdays at the culinary disaster the Hill Diner and are really entertaining.

-MJR

ps I would like to post this on chowhound, but they had banned all mention of whim because someone 'shilled' the board. I hoped perhaps with a new incarnation it would be possible.

Edited February 17, 2004 by mjr_inthegardens (log)

[scamhi]

Thanks for that review.

Any reason why the restaurant wouldn't want to keep its name Whim?

[mjr_inthegardens]

Thanks for that review.

Any reason why the restaurant wouldn't want to keep its name Whim?

That's a good question. I'm not sure.

They have not updated the website of whim to blue star, "gotlemon.com" and they are using the phone # that latin grill had.

Blue star is a grateful dead reference, accding to my gf's older sister. I'm sure you see a theme here.

-mjr

[mjr_inthegardens]

While I am on the subject of brooklyn I figured I would list my cobble/carroll and park slope favorites. This is a small list based on my 1.5 years of living in the neighborhood. I haven't been everywhere but I like what I like.

Italian:

- Casserta Vecchia, good brick oven and excellent pastas, southern italian

- Savoia, different dishes, similar neapolitan influences, good wine list (except lacking in supertuscans), has expanded to two rooms each with good ambiance.

- pizza at Sam's on court is good NY pizza, but the place is certainly nothin to look at.

Sushi-Japanese:

-FAAN -- I think a lot of the food sucks at Faan (thai) and the service is very inconsistent, but their sushi is still ok, the drinks are interesting, and the place is open late.

-GEIDO -- the most interesting japanese restaurant in the area -- on Flatbush avenue near St Marks, great japanese omelette, onokomiyake, Japanese appetizers (wasabi gyoza) and an extremely friendly staff and sushi bar. Their oshinko rolls suck though.

Chinese:

-Don't even bother, the whole neighborhood stinks for chinese, go to flushing, manhattan or sunset park.

Thai:

-TUK TUK -- most authentic in this area

-Joya on court st is serviceable as are a couple of the other neighborhood spots, but Joya is a huge bar scene on top of being a restaurant. Their backyard is really cool looking.

Breakfast/Diner:

-Petit Cafe, on Court near Luquer. Superb food on all fronts including excellent panini, soups, tea selection, prepared sandwiches and a warm welcoming decor and a kick ass backyard. This is my neighborhood spot. Magnifico.

-Carroll Gardens diner aka Salonike... it's a diner, yes. But it's new the people are friendly and they are open all the time. Try the chicken club.

Middle Eastern:

-Zaytoons on smith

-Another place on Atlantic near Hoyt that I forget

Mexican:

-LOS POLLITOS II, 5th Avenue, Park Slope. Delicious, inexpensive, authentic. Good rotisserie chicken.

American/Continental:

-Chestnut has been solid the 3-4 times I have eaten there. Don't miss the $4 toasts which are delicious and generous, meat centered main courses and their interesting veggie pairings. Well lit clean decor with great service.

-CRAVE. This place is on Henry St and focuses on catering/delivery except for their 4-5 elegant candlelit tables. Priced slightly dear for the neighborhood ($15-20 entrees) this is an nice date restaurant given that parties of 2 are the ideal for being accomodated. They have interesting beer choices. I really can't remember what I ate right now but had no complaints.

This is a small list based on my 1.5 years of living in the neighborhood. I haven't been everywhere but I like what I like.

Forgettable:

-Hill Diner (except perhaps for breakfast in the backyard)

-Village247 (perhaps they've improved but their burgers were inedible as was their calamari and nachos when we went and the decor is hideous)

Coolest other spots in the neighborhood:

-SPORTS BAR: 200 5th Avenue

-COFFEE SHOP/VINTAGE FURNITURE/RECORD STORE: Halcyon (smith st).. this place is awesome, but not if you're much over 30.

-SAHADIS: middle east & gourmet provisions & much more.. a destination of definite note

-BEST BARS: ZOMBIE HUT, BAR BELOW (below Faan), but I really go to more bars in manhattan

-PASTRIES: Court Street Bakery. I think Monteleone's is overrated.

-ITALIAN PROVISIONS: Pork Store on Court above the park & Caputos Fine Foods (not the bakery) down Court Street near Luquer St.

Places I have yet to go to but want to:

-The Grocery

-Cafe Mexicano on Union Street betw 4/5

-Sur on Smith

-Sample

I'd love to hear what other people think. I think Brooklyn has a lot of things to offer. I have opinions on restaurants in billyburg and greenpoint as well that I may get to later.

cheers

-MJR

[jogoode]

mjr,

Have you ever tried that Peruvian place on Smith?

[SethG]

Don't know Peruvian on Smith, but there's a Peruvian place on 5th called Coco Roco. It's an institution. I haven't been in a couple years, but I always found it to be satisfying cheap food. They have a very good roast chicken that will cost you next to nothing.

[mjr_inthegardens]

mjr,

Have you ever tried that Peruvian place on Smith?

I've never eaten there but we've gotten delivery of roast chicken.

My girlfriend likes it but I think it's whatever.

They have ceviches and seem to have a nice decor. I'd like to try it. I think the name is Mancora

[jogoode]

They have ceviches and seem to have a nice decor. I'd like to try it. I think the name is Mancora

Mancora! Thanks.

They have a substantial-sounding and interesting $8 or 9 lunch special. And some of their ceviches are very different than the usual suspects. (Or so I've read on the menu.)

[marezion]

Hey, I do't know why we aren't getting more Park Slope restaurants here, but I wanted to chip in with the very excellent Tex-Mexican food at Elora's on Prospect Park West and maybe 17th Street. Such an excellent shrimp enchilada. Especially with their home made spicy sauce. Also, take the F train to 7th Avenue in the Slope and check out the Minnow for seafood on 9th Street just off the corner of 7th Avenue. Every monday they have a three-course prix-fix dinner with wines for each course. Tasty and very reasonable. Also, the chef, Aaron Bashy I think is his name, is a very sweet person, and apparently a fine fisherman as well. The twlfth Street Cafe on 8th Ave is really, really delicious. One of the best crab cakes I've ever had. Hmm... I don't know if Cobble Grill is still open, but if it is, it's a great spot for burgers and sandwiches. They season their fries with frech chopped herbs and salt right out of the hopper- so good. C.G. is just off of Henry Street across from Met Foods, right about where Cobble Hill starts to turn into Carroll Gardens. They also make a fantastic roasted vegetable grilled cheese sandwich, with those herbed fries... Also, the duck club at Blue Ribbon Brooklyn, never mind the amazingly fresh sushi at their sister restaurant next door.

Finally, has anyone ever had the lemon risotto at Al Di La?

[bpearis]

I'll attempt a Williamsburg roundup. Lived there for six years where it has gone from four restaurants (not counting old school Italian and Polish) to probably 30. In neighborhood news, two big closings: The L Cafe, which was one of the four when I moved in. It was never anything special and had bad service but it was an WB landmark. Secondly, the much-talked-about Chickenbone Cafe is no more. They were originally going to close just for January for renovations, but word is they were hemoraging money and after the departure of chef Zach Pelaccio they just decided to call it quits. Very sad. I will miss their expensive but amazing cubano.

Thai

How many Thai restaurants does Williamsaburg need? The answer continually seems to be "one more." The two best, in my opinion are, Siam Orchid on Grand and the new Chai. Though not on the menu, SO will make a very good jungle curry for you. The owner/chef is the nicest guy ever. Chai, meanwhile is one of the newer restaurants in the hood and I was skeptical at first. But it's maybe the most authentic, tastiest. Items marked with a spicy asterix actually are spicy. Thier duck salad is very similar to Sripraphai's catfish salad in flavor (but not texture). Have never had anything bad there.

Chai is right down the street from SEA which is a great place to take out of town friends because it's very hip/cool looking with it's ponds and funky furniture (it was the location for the raw food restaurant in Sex in the City). The food? Just ok. Amongst the other decent but nothing special Thai places in WB: Khao Sarn, Planet Thai, Cheers and Tai Thai.

Italian

There are tons of Brooklyn red-sauce places in Brooklyn: Bamonte's, Giando on the Water, etc. But the ace stuff comes from Miss Williamsburg Diner and Aurora. Miss Williamsburg has been around for almost five years and they're just great. Some people don't like the "you eat our food our way" attitude, but their chef is almost always right. Giant garden is awesome in the summer, they project old Italian classics on Sundays.

Aurora has only been around for only four months but it's a winner. (Plus, it's only a block from my apartment.) Most of their specials are worthwhile -- they do this slow-roasted pork belly that's just excellent. On the down side, their contorni is an afterthought.

The D.O.C. Wine Bar has swell panini, cured meats and cheeses, lots of great wine and not much else. But it's a cool place.

Mexican

First stop in Williamsburg for me is Matamoros Puebla Grocery for their sopes. One of my top five favorite things to eat in the city. Their tacos are very good too (I like the al pastor the best), as are the tortas. Lots of funky offal for the adventurous. I can't reccomend the tamales, which are pretty dry. They put burritos on the menu about a year ago but why bother? Further out in Williamsburg, the Grand Street Bakery is a diner whose Mexican section of the menu is the only reason to go. Well, that and they're open 24/7. Chilaquilles are the best drunk food ever!

Bonita is reliable and fairly authentic. Great mole, super tacos (especially pork and fish), ok enchiladas. Delicious tortas at lunch -- the puerco torta especially. On weekend brunches they usually have pambazos on the menu: chorizo, potato and guacamole in a roll that is slathered in mole and then grilled. You need a knife and fork to eat this sandwich, but it is truly something else.

Vera Cruz and Bean are good, but not great. Bean puts the lettuce in the burrito and then pops it in the oven, making for gross wilted iceburg. Avoid that, but the enchiladas are good. Sally's Burritos is much better than El Loco Burrito II if you're going that route.

Japanese/Sushi

I like Miyako a lot, easily the best sushi in the WB despite being run by Koreans. (Nothing against Korea at all, just don't like Korean sushi in general). The sushi isn't that wierd ball of rice with a fish tail that you get at Sandobe/Jeolado in the EV. Not fist sized, fresh. They've got Korean food too which is okay. They don't deliver. Wasabi on Bedford has never done anything for me. There's a new place, Samaurai, that moved into the space formerly occupied by the all-you-can-eat sushi place The Spot that I never saw anyone eating at. We'll see.

Chinese, etc.

M Shanghai Bistro does a very good soup dumpling. Actually most of their stuff is good. Yet I don't order from them very often. Normally I go to Snacky on Grand which is sort of an izakaya lounge that has Chinese, Japanese and Korean menu items, almost all of which are tasty. I'm good friends with the owners, but I'd hang out there even if I didn't. Try the chasu shao-bing, a sandwich of roast pork using these Chinese flatbread things. The hot pots, chap-chae, dumplings are also winners.

The rest of the best:

Allioli is a terrific tapas place with almost no bad dishes; DuMont is consistently excellent and any special on the menu that is braised is worth getting; Diner is too crowded usually for my taste, but consistently above-par with a great burger; Meditteranian standby Oznots is known for their brunch for good reason -- it's the best in the neighborhood and they've got a nice tea selection too. Dinner their is good as well.

The Rest of the Rest

Hot dogs? Though Sparky's uses Niman Ranch and specially-made buns, I prefer Coney's on Bedford, just below Grand. Sparky's buns are too good and too big. It should be about the meat, in my opinion. Coney's are no-nonsense. It tastes like a hot dog. They also do a mean fried clam strip roll.

Turkish place Oasis just opened outside the Bedford stop and it's done right, up there with Bereket.

I always forget about Eat This New York subject Moto, under the JMZ, but the three times I've eaten there were quite good.

Hurricane Hopeful Chowder Bar has been oddly fused into the average Italian place Carmaya. The chowders are very savory and satisfying, the rest not so much.

The Brick Oven Gallery makes the best pizza, though the "lasagna pizza" at Cono O'Pescatore really has to be tried to be believed. Bring Alka Seltzer.

I'm not much into Polish food, but Raymunds is the one I'll go to if I'm going.

Avoid the marketing-concept-before-food vietamese/peruvian restaurant Tacu-Tacu/Rice Republic.

The Indian options are slim pickings, but the lazily-named Taj Mahal is the best.

I have never liked the refurbished Relish diner. Mugs has better food than you'd expect from a pub (great beer selection too); Teddy's does not.

And of course there's Peter Luger Steakhouse. It's been written about enough. I finally tried the burger last week. It was so juicy it didn't need anything on it, though the bacon and tomato made it better.

Edited February 17, 2004 by bpearis (log)

[jogoode]

Thanks, marezion and bpearis! I'm going to have a lot of exploring to do this month based on your recs.

I just realized this last week, but DiFara's is ten minutes away from my apartment by car! And I often have my car. Also pretty close is Sunset Park, though whenever I go, I seem unable to resist Ba Xuyen's banh mi.

[mjr_inthegardens]

nice post, bpearis

I definitely concur with your opinion on Miyako -- fantastic sushi.

For thai lovers, there is also Thai Café in Greenpoint --- manhattan avenue near Greenpoint Ave. SEA is definitely an interesting room but the food is dissapointing and the service is bad. Any restaurant where the waitstaff has to walk 30 yards to the kitchen is destined for bad service, no matter how fancy their order taking machinery is.

Allioli is definitely fantastic. I had one of the best meals I've ever had at oznots for my 1 yr anniversary with my gf --- duck tangine and mango crème brulee for dessert but that was 2 years ago.

Thanks for the update on that hood.

-mjr

[marezion]

you're welcome, JJ Goode-

I think we need to get a Brooklyn tasting group going! Anyone interested? Is there one already I just don't know about?

[Pan]

As an East Villager who works in Brooklyn 3 days a week, I'm interested.

[Pan]

I'm bumping this thread back up to ask whether any of you think that some of the restaurants you gave descriptions of might belong in a top-20-or-so list of non-fancy restaurants in New York. If you do, please consider posting some mini-reviews on the Best "Non-Fancy" Restaurants in New York thread. Thanks a lot!