Q&A -- A Sampling of South Indian Breads

[Monica Bhide]

in some Indian stores in the US now, you can get ready to use dosai batter in polybags which is kept refrigerated.

Yes -- I this is a really good alternative. We sometimes buy it when i am suddenly in the mood for a dosa. A large part of preparing the dosa from scratch is really un manned prep time. The soaking and fermenting it does on its own. The only real cookng part is the grinding and preparing it. It cannot be done, however, on the spur of the moment and so it is easier to buy the prepared mix if you are craving it NOW!!

BBhasin, I will request Chef Vinod to answer the soft crepe question

[Monica Bhide]

Disclaimer for the class -- Crack the coconut with the blade at your own risk. It takes a lot of practice so be careful not to cut yourself.

[jackal10]

I went to an Indian store (the wonderful Nasreen Dar store) near the office of one of my companies, where I was today.

Besided Urad Dal, I picked up two instant mixes, made by Gits (unfortunate name for a brand in the UK). However they seem to have semolina and other different ingredients, although the pictures on the packet, and the method are similar:

Rava Idli contents Semolina and Lentils, hydrogenated vegtable oil, cashew nuts, raising agents, citric acid, dhy green chilis, dehy curry leaves, dried ginger powder, fenugreek powder, aesfoetida powder, E 320)

Rava Dosai contents: Semolina flour, rice flour, hydrogenated vegetable oil, citric acid, sodiun bicarbonate, sesame seed powder, cumin E320

How can this be?

Edited November 13, 2003 by jackal10 (log)

[tryska]

Disclaimer for the class -- Crack the coconut with the blade at your own risk. It takes a lot of practice so be careful not to cut yourself.

if i recall correctly my mother used a hammer and a nail state-side. (til she gave up and bought coconut powder instead )

[Monica Bhide]

I went to an Indian store (the wonderful Nasreen Dar store) near the office of one of my companies, where I was today.

Besided Urad Dal, I picked up two instant mixes, made by Gits (unfortunate name for a brand in the UK). However they seem to have semolina and other different ingredients, although the pictures on the packet, and the method are similar:

Rava Idli contents Semolina and Lentils, hydrogenated vegtable oil, cashew nuts, raising agents, citric acid, dhy green chilis, dehy curry leaves, dried ginger powder, fenugreek powder, aesfoetida powder, E 320)

Rava Dosai contents: Semolina flour, rice flour, hydrogenated vegetable oil, citric acid, sodiun bicarbonate, sesame seed powder, cumin E320

How can this be?

Jack -- what you picked up is a variation called "Rava" because of the semolina base. DOsas and idilies are traditionally prepared with rice, they are also prepared using semolina for a variation.

GITs stuff is generally pretty good. Let me know how it turns out.

[rajsuman]

Great class Vinod and Monica! Somehow your mother's touch made it even more special Vinod. Have been meaning to make appams at home for ages now - the pictures have given me all the incentive I need. We have traditional South Indian breakfast at weekends, but I already have dosa batter out of the freezer for tomorrow. (Here's a time-saving tip: Always make double the quantity of dosa batter - freeze half of it and then it's there when the urge comes. It freezes well. ) Appams will have to wait (again ) for a while. My mother-in-law makes the best idlis I have ever tasted in my life, but no matter how accurately I try to duplicate her, they never come out quite the same. I suppose my Sumeet can't compete with her stone-grinder .

I have a few questions Vinod:

1) I make my idli batter in my Sumeet wet-grinding attachment. The idlis are fine, but they are not pure white as they are meant to be. They look slightly jaundiced. Would you know the reason?

2) I make dosas in a non-stick pan and they come out great, but I still would love to bring back a traditional tawa when I go to India this time. My mother had given me a new, heavy 'edge-less' one, but the dosa sticks to it. Any tips on choosing a tawa and conditioning it?

To Episure: Ever try Neeru dosa (water dosa) while in Karnataka? Yummmmm....

To Bhasin: I know the packet ones are really convenient, I have used them several times myself. But still it's just not the same...

Suman

(would you believe a south-Indian like me disliked dosas and idlis for much of my teenage years? My mother would take all the trouble to make a good dosa/idli-sambhar-chutney (the works) breakfast and I would reach for the loaf of bread. So ungrateful! I definitely know better now that I'm older and wiser. Can't have enough of them now!)

[BBhasin]

Suman,

The coconut chutney served with the dosas at 90% of the restaurants in the US is pathetic, made from dried grated coconut. You seem to know a lot about Dosas ( even though you were not particularly fond of them growing up). Would be kind enough to share your reciepe.

bhasin

[Peppertrail]

The coconut chutney served with the dosas at 90% of the restaurants in the US is pathetic, made from dried grated coconut. Would be kind enough to share your reciepe.

bhasin

Bhasin:

Glad to see that others agree with my pet peeve about coconut chutney in Indian restaurants.

I am from Kerala and we never use dried coconut bak home. Its taste it totally different. Freshly grated coconut makes all the difference in coconut chutney. Unfortunately one difficulty with coconut chutney is that it does not remain fresh in the refrigerator for a long time. One thing I have noticed after several trials and errors is that it stays fresh for at least a couple of days if salt is not added while grinding the chutney. Add salt just before serving. Here is my recipe and a variation I have developed for coconut chutney.

Coconut chutney

2 cups freshly grated coconut

3 to 5 fresh green chilies

1 tablespoon freshly grated ginger

Salt to taste

2 tablespoons vegetable, corn, or canola oil

½ teaspoon mustard seeds

½ teaspoon urad dal

A few curry leaves

1 hot red chili pepper, halved

In a blender, grind the coconut, green chilies, ginger, and salt with just enough water to make a very smooth, thick paste. In a skillet heat the oil and add mustard seeds and urad dal. When the dal turns golden brown and the mustard seeds start spluttering, add the curry leaves and red pepper, then add the ground coconut paste and stir well. Remove it from the heat and serve at room temperature.

Variations: For a slightly tart taste, add a couple of tablespoons of yogurt to the chutney and stir well. Half a cup of cilantro leaves added to the coconut while grinding gives it different flavor and a greenish color. When fresh green chilies are not available substitute jalapenos or dried red peppers. There are other variations by including garlic or onion with the coconut while griding. Personally I prefer the pure coconut taste and do not use these ingredients.

Freshly grated and frozen coconut packaged by two different companies - Goya and Daily Delight (from Kerala) are availavle now at Indian grocery stores. This coconut makes excellent chutney. When I first came to U.S. it is almost impossible to get good fresh coconut during winter months. I was really amazed when I discovered that almonds are a good substitute for fresh coconut in this chutney! I admit it’s not authentic; however, the taste is incredibly similar. For making the chutney with almonds, grind a cup of almonds with 5 or 6 dried red chilies (more if you want to make it hotter) 1/4 cup of curry leaves, if available and salt to taste. In a skillet, heat the oil and add mustard seeds and urad dal. When the dal changes color to a golden brown and the mustard seeds start spluttering, add the curry leaves and red pepper for the seasoning. Add the ground almond paste to this and stir well. Serve a room temperature. This chutney stays fresh in the refrigerator for four to five days.

Makes 4 to 6 Servings

Peppertrail

[Pongi]

First of all, congrats to Vinod, his mother and Monica for this wonderful class! These pics really make the difference. I've learnt more about dosas in few minutes than in my entire life!

Just speaking of dosas, they're one of my main issues I always fail in making them "light and crispy" as they turn out just like these "soft rice & lentil crepes" mentioned by Bbhasin. Even if I'm making the real thing, it doesn't comfort me!

I thought a lot about the possible reasons. My first thought was that Genoa air conspired against me, making my dosas just like our Farinata (did you hear about it? It's a kind of large savoury crepe, made of chickpea flour - one of the most "indian" foods we have in Italy, I believe). Since it sounded rather esoteric, I considered other options.

1)Wrong ingredients. I must admit that I use short grain rice, probably because I'm stingy (long grain rice is pretty expensive in Italy). As for urhad dal, I've never seen something like that here. BTW, are they beans or lentils? Before looking at your pics, I assumed that they were lentils, but now I'm not sure about that. Anyway, I used small green lentils, which made my batter very lumpy. I suppose this is one of my main mistakes, am I right?

2)Wrong batter texture. As I said above, mine turns out too lumpy, not as smooth as it's supposed to be. More, it seems to ferment too much, and it's so frothy that I cannot spread it thin enough.

3)Wrong cooking procedure. I think that this point depends on the previous one and I'm pretty sure that, getting the right batter, I would be able to make good dosas as well as I'm able to make perfectly thin French crepes. I too would like more using a nonstick pan rather than a griddle, what do you think about that?

TIA!

Your clumsiest student,

Pongi

[rajsuman]

Bhasin:

Could you please specify which recipe you'd like? I'd be glad to share it with you. Are you asking for Neeru Dosa recipe? As for the chutney, like Peppertrail, I had no access to fresh coconuts when I first moved to Ireland. I used to make a pretty convincing chutney with desicccated coconut and cashewnuts. In fact my husband, a coconut-lover, actually prefers this chutney, so I still make it despite an abundance (well,nearly) of fresh coconuts. And I like to believe it's healthier than an all- coconut chutney(although that never stops me from eating masses of coconut). I must try your almond version Peppertrail! Sounds good.

Pongi:

Perhaps Vinod, his mother or Monica are better-placed to address your dosa-making problems , but if it helps, here's what I've learnt from nearly eight years of trial-and-error.

The consistency of the batter, the room temperature, the fermentation process, the heat of the pan, the type of pan all make a difference to the dosa. Different dosas have different requirements. Let's just talk about the crisp dosa for a minute. I have two different pans and the same batter will produce different results on these two pans. In the same way, sometimes I find a thicker batter gives a better result than a thinner one. I still haven't nailed it completely yet, but lesser and lesser of my dosas get binned these days compared to when I started. I suppose it's down to practice in the end. You do need urad dal (split black gram) for this and the batter has to be really smooth and lump-free. To eliminate the excess bubbles, try beating the batter vigorously with a ladle. I wish (and not for the first time) there was some kind of kitchen gadget to measure the consistency of things. Cooking would be so much simpler!

Does that answer you question partially at least?

Suman

[Pongi]

It does, Suman, thanks very much!

I must admit, however, that it also makes me a bit concerned as it's likely that I'll need sixteen years to produce a single decent dosa

I do understand that urad dal are mandatory, but in case I can't find them, must I give up trying making dosas or can I try substituting them with something else?

Pongi

[Monica Bhide]

It does, Suman, thanks very much!

I must admit, however, that it also makes me a bit concerned as it's likely that I'll need sixteen years to produce a single decent dosa

I do understand that urad dal are mandatory, but in case I can't find them, must I give up trying making dosas or can I try substituting them with something else?

Pongi

If I may ask Pongi where are you located? Urad dal is easily available at www.namaste.com and many such online ethnic grocery stores. It is my understanding that an alternate might be hard to find

[Pongi]

Monica, thanks for your advice, but I'm afraid that Namaste isn't an option for someone living in Italy like me. Anyway, I'll search for urad dal all over the organic shops I know!

Pongi

[rajsuman]

Hi Pongi,

Wish I could send you some urad dal over! It's terrible, isn't it, when you can't get the right ingredients for the job? It used to be like that when I first came to Ireland, but it's a lot better now. I suppose you could try making the dosas that don't need urad dal. Have you tried pesarattu or adai? There are many others too.

Sympathetically yours,

Suman

[Episure]

I mentioned earlier to Chef Vinod that I was more than a little obsessed by Dosa. Last four days in Bangalore, pursuing my quest for the perfect Dosa, I ate 11 dosas in different places. Perfect 10s.

Sigh!

[Monica Bhide]

Episure -- stop that -- you are making my mouth water! Where in Bangalore did you eat -- what types of dosas? What was served with them?> Do you have a favorite? When I was in bangalore, i think my college canteen served the best dosas I have ever had!

Any pics?

[Episure]

Episure -- stop that -- you are making my mouth water! Where in Bangalore did you eat -- what types of dosas? What was served with them?> Do you have a favorite? When I was in bangalore, i think my college canteen served the best dosas I have ever had!

Any pics?

Monica,

Bangalore makes my kind of dosas which I can't find anywhere else. They are crisp on the browned side and ever so slightly fluffy on the other. The ladling is done in a spiral motion creating alternate rings of thick and thin. They are topped with a pat of fresh unsalted butter which drives me crazy, much as opening a bottle of Chateau Latour or a Petrus. They are served with 'Kempi( Red) chatni' on the inside and the regular Chatni and sambhar in katoris. For years I've tried duplicating them unsucessfully, the rice, dal, I've even brought water from there. Nix! No wonder they are not found anywhere else.

To sample these your best bet would be to walk into any 'darshini' which has now become a generic term for the self service stand up and eat restaurants. Drive around the ethnic areas at breakfast time and follow the lungis. If you are going there I can send you to some awesome places which my cosmoplitan local friends dont know about.

Apart from the regular dosas I had Ragi and Akhi Rotis which I can safely classify as dosas.

[v. gautam]

Dear Monica, Vinod, and Mataji (foremost),

thank you for your wonderful lessons. some questions and an observation:

1) While making chennai iddlis, is ponni rice the most suitable? In upstate NY, this is now available. I attempted iddlis with thai jasmine, and they did not turn out fluffy. Some advise converted rice, one cookbook even suggests including a portion of instant rice, another [Monsoon Diary] suggests rice powder. Please enlighten?

2) Your opinion on electrically powered stone grinders, e.g. Shanthi brand from India: do they really make a difference, versus Sumeet and ordinary kitchen blenders? Any personal exprience with these? Are there folk who have retired their motar and pestle [granite/basalt?] in the US and who might consider selling them?

3) Re: Dosais--- as a child, i would watch someone who cooked professionally prepare these divine 'paper' dosas on a pump-action kerosene stove. He would let the griddle cool appreciably at the start, when rubbbing on oil with an onion and then ladling out the batter and then spreading it; now would come the exciting part with the stove being pumped harder and higher, simultaneously dipping spatula in a pool of oil and using this this to pull the dosai to thinness; this was done repeatedly, with great speed and expertise, pulling it to a thinness; much oil disappeared, as you can imagine! this was when the griddle was at its hottest; after rolling up the finished dosa, the flame was let to die down, and the cycle began again. Apparently, the cooling part of the cycle was crucial in not allowing the batter to stick, and refuse to spread out---your comments please?

This gentleman also would make a chutney where onion, ginger, green chilies and chickpea dal would be fried and ground with fresh coconut and tamarind extract, tempered with mustard seed and curry leaf; this chutney had a large proportion of split chickpea and onion, relatively small amount of coconut; is this style familiar to anyone? Also, a few words on Kerala cooked chutneys, garam chutneys I have had with dosas in Syrian Christian homes: what is the modus operandi here?

Thank you so much.