Dordogne Hotel Restaurants

[John Whiting]

For two weeks from April 23rd, Mary and I will be staying at a series of middle-to-upper hotel restaurants, mostly in the Dordogne. They have been chosen from Alistair Sawday’s “French Hotels, Inns and Other Places”, a list which is a notch above his “French Bed and Breakfast” volume. The latter is a guide which I’ve used ever since it first came out in 1994. I have found it consistently reliable in the most important sense: good or bad, I am almost never taken by surprise. Correspondence with Ann Cooke-Yarborough, who was largely responsible for the entries, revealed the guide’s secret ingredient: taste.

These hotels have been selected more for their ambience than for their cuisine, although I expect the latter to be at least enjoyable. For this trip, Michelin can keep its macaroons in the cookie jar.

La Commanderie, Brizay

Domaine de la Tortinière, Montbazon

La Maison des Chanoines, Turenne

Chateau de la Cote, Brantome

Manoir d’Hautegente, Coly

Le Domaine de la Barde, Le Bugue

Hotel Restaurant Le Chateau, Lalinde

La Terasse, Meyronne

If anyone has experience of any of these, I’d be interested in hearing about it.

[jaybee]

Chateau de la Cote, Brantome. If anyone has experience of any of these, I’d be interested in hearing about it.

We stayed there in October. It is a spartan place with huge rooms, minimally furnished. The most enjoyable place there is a small salon where you may enjoy an excellent armangac in the evening. John, the restaurant is a waste of a meal. The food tastes as though it comes from frozen, prepared meals! You would do well to eat a big lunch and small supper if you do not want to wander afield at night for dinner.  If you do want to go out, I would recommend the Moulin de Roc which is not far from Brantome.  I'll post some photos to you via email.

[John Whiting]

Thanks for the warning. Fortunately we will have had a big lunch with friends at a fine restaurant in Angouleme, so we can go very easy on dinner.

We would have stayed again at the Moulin de l'Abbaye, which we love, but we thought we'd try someplace different. Sigh.

[cabrales]

John Whiting -- When I am close during a trip to interesting restaurants I have not tried, but for various reasons (e.g., commitments to friends, lack of reservations, feeling of having eaten too much during a period, etc.), do not eat at them, my curiosity becomes a negative aspect that diminishes my appreciation of the restaurants I do eat at. Have members experienced similar problems?   ;)

[jaybee]

my curiosity becomes a negative aspect that diminishes my appreciation of the restaurants I do eat at. Have members experienced similar problems?

Do you mean that you think less of the places you go to because they are "default" choices and not your first choices?

That hasn't happened to me, on the contrary, some of the most pleasant experiences have been spur of the moment changes or choices.  That doesn't mean I don't carry around a sense of "unfinished business" and try to go to the missed place on the next trip, if possible.

[cabrales]

Do you mean that you think less of the places you go to because they are "default" choices and not your first choices?

That hasn't happened to me . . . .

jaybee -- Here's an attempt at clarification. When there's somewhere (Restaurant X) that (1) I have determined (based on inquiry, guides, research, etc.) is subjectively interesting to me, (2) is located geographically close to the restaurant I end up visiting (say, Restaurant Y), (3) I have never visited before, and (4) for some reason I do not end up eating at, Y might offer a good meal, but that meal will be in the context of my unmet desires for X. Thus, my overall level of happiness is lower.

If I went to Biarritz or Bayonne, for example, and could not secure a reservation at Arzak (within a quick drive across the border), my level of happiness would be diminished. That's not to say that I wouldn't appreciate Auberge de La Galoupe or that I can't accept one can't visit every interesting restaurant within a geographic area at once. It's merely to say that there are quite a few never-before-visited restaurants that have a "force of attraction" for me once I'm within a certain geographic proximity to them. Note that effect occurs for me with restaurants at different levels, to different degrees. Surprisingly to me, it recently happened a bit during the day between when I heard about the Charcuterie trolley discussed in the UK forum and when I visited the relevant restaurant.  ;)

Your mention of last-minute changes or choices is interesting. Bux has also mentioned how sometimes he does not make all reservations on any given trip, allowing for some meandering. When I travel, I am most deliberate about which restaurants I go to. I try to make reservations way in advance, and research and ponder about alternatives. That's part of how I set my sights on particular restaurants within a geographic area, and that is part of why I experience heightened curiosity when I am unable to eat during that trip at the places chosen.

[jaybee]

Cabrales, now I understand what you mean.  Yes it can cast a pall over one's mood when for weeks a particular place has been on your radar screen and you can't get to it.  But then, if the "substitute" rises to the occasion, it should make the experience even sweeter, since it was serendipitous.  The mention of planning vs. spontaneity is an interesting subject.  We often reserve the real highlight places but also leave at least half the choices open for decision on route.  Sometimes moods change, the previous meal affects one's appetites or preferences, so it's good to have some room to maneuver.  That is as long as you have good reference sources available to you.  

On a trip through the Sologne, we made a wide detour to go through Tournus to eat at Grus.  It was one of the best meals we've ever eaten.  That was a planned stop,  However, on the same trip, we stopped at the Hotel Tatin in Lamothe-Beuvron (the birthplace of the famous tart tatin), and enjoyed a spectacular meal of venison and game birds (of course finsihed off with a piece of the tart).  As we've become more experenced travellers, we seem to make fewer "firm" reservations and more on the trail.

[John Whiting]

Call this pretentious if you will  :) , but when I'm eating a "serious" restaurant meal, I take it with a Zen-like concentration on the experience as an entity in itself. In a certain sense I "enjoy" a bad meal because, by paying close attention to it, I find it instructive. If it's particularly awful, I start to chuckle to myself over how I'm going to use it for raw material. Even during my particularly unpleasant experience at Le Pamphlet, by the time we were ready to leave we were actually laughing.

[cabrales]

In a certain sense I "enjoy" a bad meal because, by paying close attention to it, I find it instructive. If it's particularly awful, I start to chuckle to myself

John Whiting -- I can "enjoy" a meal if the food service, wine service, wine recommendation or waiting time between dishes is flawed. However, if the standalone quality of the dishes does not meet a certain minimum level, I tend not to be amused. I generally don't pout, and do continue to pay attention. But sometimes it's hard to pay attention to food that one clearly doesn't want to eat when a pattern of dishes makes the situation obvious  ;)

[jaybee]

We've strayed far from your original question here, John, but the discourse prompts me to write of an event that happened many years ago and still lives large in the annals of our amusing trip experiences. On our way to Les Baux, we stopped for a night at an Auberge de Noves that had, at one time two Michelin stars, but then was down to one. (I think it has come back to fame and fortune again). The place was beautiful, the host charming, and as we signed in and set a time for dinner, we all agree to a souffle for dessert, for this was a signature dish of the place.  Fast forward several hours, many bottles of champagne and wine and a very satisfying meal, and the dessert trolly is wheeled to the table.  Looking confused, we said, "oh, but we'd commanded souffles all around."  A bit of awkward back and forth revealed that our host had failed to put in the order.  So we enjoyed a good desert from the trolly and reitre to our beautiful, antique-filled rooms on the second floor.  Groaning, I lay on the bed and opened my belt.  Soon a knock on the door.  "Yes?"  "Ici la souffle," came the reply.  Opening the door in disbelief, there stood the waiter with two beautiful souffles, one for us and one for our travelling companions.  I took ours and heard a similar act repeated down the hall.  No way either my wife or I could even take a meaningful mouthful (well I did).  What to do? Can't insult them by not eating it.  Aha, the toilet.  An antique affair with a wooden tank about ten feet in the air and a long pull chain.  With so little pressure, it took about ten flushes (fifteen minutes) to get the delicate, lighter than air masterpiece to disappear.  Nest morning we met our friends at the breakfast table in the courtyard and  exchanged "bonjours" when my sister in law blurted out "do you know how hard it is to flush a souffle down these toilets?"  Howls of laughter. That souffle is the most memorable dish I never ate.

[cabrales]

Can't insult them by not eating it.  

At certain restaurants, have members continued with a dish even though they were indifferent to it/disliked it, just so that the kitchen team would not feel insulted if it examined what remained?  ;) For members who work in the restaurant industry, have kitchen teams in which you have paricipated examined food that's left on plates and can you tell which diner has left what?

For me, continuing with a dish for the sake of any third party is generally misguided in the restaurant context.  ;)

[jaybee]

For me, continuing with a dish for the sake of any third party is generally misguided in the restaurant context.

I would never eat something that didn't please me so as not to insult anyone in the kitchen.  On the contrary, when not happy with my dish in any important way, I will tell the staff about it and expect to be satisfied.  If not, I will not pay for it.  In the case of my story, however, you seem to ignore the point that the host was going an extra step to make up for his faux pas in forgetting the original order.  He was such a nice and genuine man, that I didn't want him to think we rejected his peace offering.  Obviously my brother-in-law and his wife had the same thought and did the same thing.

[cabrales]

On the contrary, when not happy with my dish in any important way, I will tell the staff about it and expect to be satisfied.  If not, I will not pay for it.  In the case of my story, however, you seem to ignore the point that the host was going an extra step to make up for his faux pas

jaybee -- Apologies if I didn't make clear that I enjoyed your post, and would have done the same thing with respect to the souffle. .  ;)   (Note the reference to continuing to take in a dish, as opposed to flushing it)

In my preceding post, I was posing a separate question on finishing what's on a plate in restaurants.  Your post was not only enjoyable, it prompted me to think about when a diner might begin to care about how the consumption (or lack thereof) of food is perceived by the servers/providers thereof.  :p

Have you ever ended up not paying for a dish with which you were unhappy, after you refused to pay?  I have not yet attempted to refuse payment, although I have been tempted on a very, very few occasions.  ;)

[jaybee]

Have you ever ended up not paying for a dish with which you were unhappy, after you refused to pay?

Apology accepted.  Glad you liked the story.  Yes I have.  It happened only once, because most times, an establishment will offer another plate or will remove the charge voluntarily.  In this instance, they were so rude that I tore up the charge slip and paid cash for the part of the meal we ate, leaving a tip for the waiter, which I placed in his hands directly (since he was not at fault).  I absolutely refuse to be pushed or browbeaten by corporations or service establishments.  More than once I've written or emailed to the CEOs of large establishments (AMEX) and gotten satisfaction by their interjection in the dispute.  But that might make a good thread on the general forum--STORIES OF REVENGE!  What did they do"  What did you do? Goodie, I think I'll start it on the "General" forum.

[cabrales]

More than once I've written or emailed to the CEOs of large establishments (AMEX) and gotten satisfaction by their interjection in the dispute.  

jaybee -- Please consider discussing what dispute(s) were involved, and how AMEX or other corporations assisted?  ;)

[John Whiting]

But that might make a good thread on the general forum--STORIES OF REVENGE!

Indeed, I'm surprised to hear people who know the restaurant business talk of sending dishes back to the kitchen when it's so widely known what may very well happen to the next dish before it's presented to them. :(

[cabrales]

But that might make a good thread on the general forum--STORIES OF REVENGE!

Indeed, I'm surprised to hear people who know the restaurant business talk of sending dishes back to the kitchen when it's so widely known what may very well happen to the next dish before it's presented to them. :(

John Whiting -- On things that might happen to dishes, are you referring to the inclusion of spit, or other forms of corruption of dishes?  I note you mentioned the possibility previously, and wonder if you have experiences in this regard (including through stories from "spitters").  :p

[John Whiting]

I've no idea - how would I know :(  Clement Freud, who has spent a lot of time in kitchens, speaks of it openly. I had enough experience in US Army kitchens to learn that "officers' mess" had a certain appropriateness. Anyway, my reaction to any sort of human enormity is, "If it can be done it will be done."

[lizziee]

John,

I don't know if your itinerary is firm for the Dordogne, but there is one place that we fell in love with a number of years ago. It is Le Chaufourg in Sourzac, about 38 Km from Bergerac. It is owned by Georges Dambier, a dapper seventy year old who was a high profile fashion photographer in Paris. He and his cousin, Agnes run the inn themselves. George is the most gracious host who will regale you with wonderful stories. He will steer you to little known sights of the region. He has created at his family's country home the most romantic, beautiful country inn. There are 10 guest rooms, an attractive swimming pool and an outside pool house. We stayed in Chambre de Marie (presently about $220. per night). It has white cathedral beams over the bed, a study, a giant bathtub, huge closets, television and air-conditioning. This is an inn that is at once refined, elegant but also rustic.

He is now serving dinner in the main parlor, a beautifully furnished room with a large fireplace. When we were there you had to specially order a dinner (which we did), but as I mentioned he now serves a short menu at dinner featuring local specialities. When we had dinner, it was just my husband and I. (Mother's day was the day before and everyone had left the inn that afternoon.) George had set up a beautiful table, soft jazz was playing, lights were dim, fire in the fireplace and his dogs nestled at our feet. (Bagdad Cafe, the poodle was especially receptive.) I don't have my notes on the exact dinner we ate that night, but my notes say that it was a completely satisfying experience emphasizing local ingredients and local wines.

Hope this helps your itinerary.

[John Whiting]

Sounds wonderful! Our itinerary is fixed (it had to fit around a recording session in Angouleme, which is paying for the trip :)  ), but I'll file your posting away for another occasion.