Vietnamese Restaurant Opening at 43d and Spruce

[sara]

As some of you know, I' ve been jonesing for a Vietnamese restaurant to open in West Philly for some time now...Well, my prayers have apparently been answered: Campus Epicurean at 43d and Spruce has closed,and the sign on the door says "Vietnamese Restaurant Coming Soon"!!

I'm beside myself with joy--I live less than 1/2 blk away!

Now let's just hope the food is good.

[herbacidal]

i hope so too. gut feeling doesn't make me optimistic, but we'll see.

[mrbigjas]

i hope so too.  gut feeling doesn't make me optimistic, but we'll see.

Why not?

[herbacidal]

not totally sure. i'm on the fence about vietnamese here now.

on the one hand, it's better than NYC, from what i hear.

OTOH, if sara's right, still eons away from VA and MD area.

having never had vietnamese in either area, have to give that benefit of doubt.

i do think it's high time it expanded outside south philly and chinatown.

i do think beijing is overpriced, but since it's the only thing decent sitdown chinese restaurant in west philly, and a noodle house to boot, it gets a good crowd.

beijing does have a better location as far as being useful to campus than 43rd and spruce.

how does all of this work together and affect food quality at a new vietnamese restaurant at 43rd and spruce?

not sure. but like i said, gut tells me it'll be decent, at best. but i'm hoping for better.

[Greg Salisbury]

Talked a few times with the landlord, Mr. Lee. Used to be in the biz, but got out in favor of real estate. He is rehabbing the space (quickly, too!) for his brother and sister to operate. Look, even if it's just average Vietnamese, it is a quantum leap in use of space from Campus epicurean (only open for weekend brunch) to a place that the owner assures me will be open all week long. For me, if it falls somewhere between Vietnam Palace/Pho Ha, I'll be very, very happy.

[mrbigjas]

True. And it's bound to be better than the new restaurant opening up in my neighborhood (Graduate Hospital)--yet another "Chinese-American Food" takeout place. Right at 17th & South, as if we didn't already have one at 18th & South.

Speaking of southeast asian food in U. City, though, I've heard from a couple of friends that Vientiane's kinda gone downhill and isn't what it used to be. Anyone been lately and have any comments?

[herbacidal]

True.  And it's bound to be better than the new restaurant opening up in my neighborhood (Graduate Hospital)--yet another "Chinese-American Food" takeout place.  Right at 17th & South, as if we didn't already have one at 18th & South.

i suppose decent is good.

just the fact that they're gonna be elsewhere is a plus.

[whimsity]

Hi - not sure if I'm doing this right, it's my first post, but I'm kind of sad to hear that the epicurean closed.

They had what I felt was a lovely atmosphere and one of the best breakfasts I've found so far on my (admittedly) limited funds. I've tried morning glory since it was rather hyped up in citysearch, but really wasn't that impressed with the frittatas, and let's not even start on philly diner...

[herbacidal]

Hi - not sure if I'm doing this right, it's my first post, but I'm kind of sad to hear that the epicurean closed.

They had what I felt was a lovely atmosphere and one of the best breakfasts I've found so far on my (admittedly) limited funds.  I've tried morning glory since it was rather hyped up in citysearch, but really wasn't that impressed with the frittatas, and let's not even start on philly diner...

we'll cut you some slack since it's your first.

i liked morning glory when it opened.

heard it's gone down since the first year, eighteen months of its existence.

where's philly diner?

[whimsity]

It's not on the radar - mentioned it as a sort of joke, it's an penn campus diner on 39th and walnut that's quite spectacularly bad.

we'll cut you some slack since it's your first.

Did I do something wrong?

[sara]

I'm not sorry to hear about Epicurean--the food sucked! The pancakes were like cardboard, often, the potatoes underdone..the owner was surly (he once yelled at me for helping his waitress move a table, when I was nice enough to bring a group of 8 into his nearly empty restaurant)..he refused to open anytime but the weekend (well there was that one half-assed go of it last summer, but that hardly counted. the owner spent my whole dinner complaining about greg and rx, and how they took his business. in the meantime he served some lousy food w/ sloppy service during inconsistent hours). I've been waiting 5 yrs for a real restaurant to step into that corner--can't wait to see what the new place is like! The neighborhood can sustain more than just Rx, I'm sure (not that Rx isn't wonderful, it is, but we need a lower priced non-pizza, non-Ethiopian option).

[herbacidal]

It's not on the radar - mentioned it as a sort of joke, it's an penn campus diner on 39th and walnut that's quite spectacularly bad.

we'll cut you some slack since it's your first.

Did I do something wrong?

not really, was just kidding.

so philly diner is that place that was eat at joe's at one time, right there with the movie theater, ice cream place, and other stuff.

[herbacidal]

I'm not sorry to hear about Epicurean--the food sucked! The pancakes were like cardboard, often, the potatoes underdone..the owner was surly (he once yelled at me for helping his waitress move a table, when I was nice enough to bring a group of 8 into his nearly empty restaurant)..he refused to open anytime but the weekend (well there was that one half-assed go of it last summer, but that hardly counted. the owner spent my whole dinner complaining about greg and rx, and how they took his business. in the meantime he served some lousy food w/ sloppy service during inconsistent hours).  I've been waiting 5 yrs for a real restaurant to step into that corner--can't wait to see what the new place is like! The neighborhood can sustain more than just Rx, I'm sure (not that Rx isn't wonderful, it is, but we need a lower priced non-pizza, non-Ethiopian option).

sounds pretty lousy, sara.

i'm suprised he lasted that long.

totally agree about the diversity of dining options.

[KatieLoeb]

Welcome to eGullet Greg and whimsity!

There's always been a "bad-food-option" on 39th Street on/near Walnut for as long as I can remember. Before that space was Epicurean I think it was some other equally greasy and horrific diner type joint that's been giving gastric distress to Penn students for at least 20 years.

I hope the Vietnamese place is a success. I'm with Greg - if it falls somewhere on the spectrum between good sit down (the much lamented Saigon on Washington Ave is sorely missed by me, at least) and one the Pho joints that'll do just fine. I'm still a big fan of Pho Xe Lua in Chinatown though. That fits that criteria perfectly - awesome bathtub sized bowls of Pho as well as delicious plated entrees. And you can eat like a sumo wrestler in training and still get out of there for less than $20.

As for the neighborhood sustaining more than just Rx, I'm sure there's plenty of customers to go around. As for welcoming the competition, we should ask Greg.

Greg - how do you feel about a new restaurant/potential competitor right there in the neighborhood?

[mrbigjas]

There's always been a "bad-food-option" on 39th Street on/near Walnut for as long as I can remember. Before that space was Epicurean I think it was some other equally greasy and horrific diner type joint that's been giving gastric distress to Penn students for at least 20 years

Ha, yeah, anyone remember Barley and Hops? I guess that was closer to 40th & Walnut. Friend of mine worked there back in the day (I'm guessing 1990 or so) and reported for work one day and the place was closed. I mean, for good, not for that day. Good times, good times.

But wait, on 39th near walnut? High Rise Restaurant? They used to serve us underage, as would Troy's, the original greasy and horrific diner type joint, which had the Eggel (fried eggs and cheese and meat of your choice on a bagel that was browned on the griddle, not toasted), and which went out of business around 1990 after getting busted repeatedly for selling beer to kids. Of course, the owners' repeated insistence that they didn't believe in the drinking age didn't help their cause any, I'm sure...

[sara]

Katie, Epicurean's at 43rd and Spruce, not the 40th and Walnut space--which yes, has been many many awful things over the years.

Did anyone else notice that the "American Diner" on Chestnut, near 42nd, has finally reopened--this time, as some sort of Indian/Halal joint? This place was closed (and for sale, for $50K) for so long...Any reports?

Also new in the neighborhood--the Palladium guys have opened an Italian place--Abraggio (sp?) on 47th somewhere near Baltimore--any details on that? I drove by it a few weeks ago, it looks pleasant.

[herbacidal]

Katie, Epicurean's at 43rd and Spruce, not the 40th and Walnut space--which yes, has been many many awful things over the years.

Did anyone else notice that the "American Diner" on Chestnut, near 42nd, has finally reopened--this time, as some sort of Indian/Halal joint? This place was closed (and for sale, for $50K) for so long...Any reports?

Also new in the neighborhood--the Palladium guys have opened an Italian place--Abraggio (sp?) on 47th somewhere near Baltimore--any details on that? I drove by it a few weeks ago, it looks pleasant.

yea, i wanna hear about the american diner replacement and its quality.

how long was epicurean there?

isn't there a new place on walnut somewhere between 38th and 40th?

can't think of where, maybe a replacement for college buffet?

thought i remember hearing something, but i'm rarely in the area.

[sara]

Epicurean was at 43rd and Spruce for at least 5 years, not sure how much longer (I moved in 5 yrs ago).

The newest addition to the 38th-40th block of Walnut is Philly Diner, which arrived maybe 9-10 months ago. But Baskin Robbins closed as well, and a replacement is coming (maybe it arrived in the last week while I was away?).

And Marathon Grill is opening in the Bridge complex at 40th, and Bitar's turned into Simsum (on 40th near Walnut), and Ben & Jerry's replaced Papaya King..

And Fatou & Fama has a very groovy new painted mural on the front of the building..

Guess those are the W Philly/ U City updates!

[gabe]

Also fairly new is the former "blue tarp speakeasy," Vientiane Cafe, which is on Baltimore at around 47th. Tasty, fresh, cheap Thai and Vietnamese food there (though more Thai than Vietnamese). It's BYO. A very nice atmosphere, too, I think.

Simsum (the ex-Bitar's) has had pretty tasty fare the times I've been -- especially the soup and the lamb appetizer, but the appetizer sampler (baba, hummus, pita, etc.) is pretty good, too. (Also BYO.)

[katbert]

Also at the Bridge complex we're getting another Metropolitan Bakery. mmm. I also second the posts about the Philly diner being mediocre, but at the same time it's pretty convenient if you happen to be right there at 3am.

Also I tried Abraccio two weeks ago, we just had sandwiches with fries- one was an eggplant, mozzarella, breaded deep fried affair (normally I love deep fried but I found that the eggplant turned mushy) and also a sausage and peppers sandwich which was ok but not exceptional. I would go back and try pastas, I don't think the sandwiches necessarily represent what they can do.

kt

[Greg Salisbury]

Wow, that's a lot of interest in my neighborhood! I don't know how to use the feature that lets you pull quotes for replies, so bear with me. Sara, that totally blows my mind that Gary, the owner of Epicurean was badmouthing me. Maybe it's just me, but you never, ever talk smack about another place. Bad, bad karma, Gary. But now that he's closed... One of the reasons I opened for brunch was because of a meal I had at Epicurean when I first moved to the neighborhood. Actually, it was a meal I never had - 45 minutes just to get our order taken (it was busy but not slammed), another 10 for coffee, and then when I tried to talk to Gary about it, his response was, "do you still want your food or not?" I said no, and then he brought me a bill for the coffee! So I got the sense that there was a niche to be filled. And he had the cojones to try to get me to buy his business for 70k!. All right, now that I've gotten that off my chest: Katie, thanks for the welcome. Nice to be able to post on a site without fear of getting yanked. As for competition: I think the more the merrier. University City/West Philly is not really at teh top of most people's lists for dining meccas, so every new place that opens helps increase my visibility in an indirect way. You come to the neighborhood, have a good meal, see how beautiful it is around here, how easy it is to get to, how relatively plentiful parking is, and your mindset has changed to our benefit. And the area is far from maximum density. I think you'll see a few more places open up in the next two years, if they can find commercial space. That said, I tried the kaboberia that opened in the late, lamented American Diner space. Not as good as Kabobeesh, but it does have parking. There is a new bakery coming to 4908 Baltimore, called Sugar Hill Bakery, and a Caribbean cafe on 4500 block of Baltimore opening sometime in the next few months, owners used to have the bakery in the Firehouse@50th/Baltimore. Supposedly a new coffee shop opening next to Koch's on the 4300 block of Locust. The University City haunt I miss the most is Boccie - gourmet pizza back in the late 80s, opened by the guy who started Saladalley, Mike Kalina, and Leslie, the lady who opened Pizzazz pizzeria.

Edited September 8, 2003 by Greg Salisbury (log)

[sara]

Greg, Thanks so much for all of this useful information! (Please keep it coming)

Yes, I also found it odd that Gary would bad-mouth your place to a customer...And I'm so glad that you took negative experiences at his place & turned it into something positive (I can't tell you how many times I waited 45 min- 1 hr for his highly mediocre food..for lack of other closeby options).

In the meantime, I walked by tonite and it looks like the Vietnamese place is pretty close to opening. The name appears to be "Pho & Cafe Saigon." My fingers are crossed. I really hope to make it a regular 'takeout' place (Greg, I love that you have more space, but lament the demise of your takeout counter.)

In other neighborhood news--that Thai grocery near Koch's has added more food (in the last 6 months their fresh and frozen food supplies had dwindled quite a bit). They even have some fancy desserts imported from Thailand, and various dried fruits. Just brought home a bag from there, and will see how it all is.

[herbacidal]

first,

Greg: 1) welcome from me as well!

2) say hi to Greg Ling for me, from Herb Lau, a classmate of his sister's at HR.

3) at the top right of each post is a button you click on to quote that post. after clicking it, you then remove whatever it is you don't want in the post. at the bottom of each post, you can email or private message (a private mailing system for other users of egullet) the post's writer.

as an example of private message (PM), i'll send one to you of this message.

[KatieLoeb]

But wait, on 39th near walnut? High Rise Restaurant? They used to serve us underage, as would Troy's, the original greasy and horrific diner type joint, which had the Eggel (fried eggs and cheese and meat of your choice on a bagel that was browned on the griddle, not toasted), and which went out of business around 1990 after getting busted repeatedly for selling beer to kids. Of course, the owners' repeated insistence that they didn't believe in the drinking age didn't help their cause any, I'm sure...

Yeah!!!! Troy's!! That's exactly what I was thinking of! Oh. My. God. Some of the most horrificly bad food in the world. Open late, serving beer to underage students and causing all manner of gastric problems for those who were brave enough to partake. Yup. Them's were the days...

[Rich Pawlak]

Yeah!!!! Troy's!! That's exactly what I was thinking of!  Oh. My. God.  Some of the most horrificly bad food in the world.  Open late, serving beer to underage students and causing all manner of gastric problems for those who were brave enough to partake.  Yup.  Them's were the days...

Saturday breakfast at Troy's was the ultimate undergraduate hangover cure in the mid-70's, and for me, the best breakfast after the Friday overnight shift at 'MMR/ I never ate any other meal there but breakfast.