Trip to San Francisco, 9/24-9/27

[girl chow]

Help! I need advice! Hubby and I will be landing in San Francisco 9/24 and leaving the evening of 9/27.

We have sketched out (tentatively) where we'd like to eat based on reading many many many posts here!

What we'd like to ask you is this: are these spots we're considering ones you would recommend to your friends if they were coming into town? If you have any alternate suggestions, please list them. I really appreciate any help you can give. We're open to any/all kinds of food, however we have budgeted tightly for some meals. At this point, nothing is set in stone and we are open to all suggestions.

We are staying near the SF airport, but we'll have a car and driving is not an issue (we live in the Seattle burbs, we're used to driving freakin' everywhere ). We're light breakfast eaters, so we're looking only for lunch and dinner recs.

So here is our tentative eating schedule. Give thoughts! And if anyone is visiting Seattle, I'm happy to swap suggestions for eating.

Here we go:

Wednesday, Sept. 24

lunch: something close to the Fisherman's Wharf (late lunch, 3-4 p.m.).. probably a light meal in anticipation for a big dinner

dinner:Osteria del Forno (late dinner, 8-9 p.m.)

Thursday, Sept. 25

lunch: We'll be in Napa all day, so we're hoping to find someplace with decent food at a bargain price (like under $50). We're open to anything. Give us suggestions for wineries to visit if you have favorites (we have a giant list going).

dinner: We love the idea of dinner at the CIA Greystone. What are your thoughts? It seems reasonably priced and the menu on the web site looks interesting. What do you think?

Friday, Sept. 26

lunch: dim sum at Yank Sing OR Ton Kiang. Please advise! We're also thinking of venturing into Chinatown for dimsum...although we're open to any location.

dinner: Chez Panisse (reservations pending... did I read correctly on the web site that you can only make reservations 1 month from the time of your visit...so I can call only as early as Aug. 26? Is that right?)

Saturday, Sept. 27

lunch: Mission District: La Taqueria? or El Farolita? Please advise!

early dinner: Our flight leaves at 6, but looking for maybe a quick light dinner fix near the airport around 3:30-4 p.m.?

Thanks so much for any advice you can offer! We cannot wait to tour San Francisco.

Edited August 7, 2003 by girl chow (log)

[badthings]

here are some non-comprehensive reactions:

CIA Greystone is a cool place. went to a wedding there and the food was impressive... for a wedding. don't know what it's like to pay for it. Tra vigne is very reasonable, actually, as far as the famous places go -- some of our Napa natives can give you more suggestions.

I wouldn't worry about Chez P. reservations -- 1 month is probably fine. You will save a lot of money and get to choose what you eat if you go upstairs (the café). The quality (and the winelist, most importantly!) is the same, atmosphere more informal.

La Taqueria is a damn good burrito. Farolito is excellent but maybe not quite as good; you can't really go wrong.

There is not much around the airport as far as I know.

I don't eat in SF much, so you are at the mercy of our more sophisticated members, but 2 places I think are actually worth the money are Zuni and Delfina.

hope you have a great trip.

[docsconz]

Both dim sum places are fine Ton Kiang is slightly better IMO, but further out of the way depending on where you are and what else you are doing.. I certainly can'y argue with the choice of Chez Panisse. An upstairs lunch there was one of the most satisfying meals I've ever had. I take it you couldn't get reservations at The French Laundry? A fun thing to do in Napa would be to put together a picnic of local products, go to a winery (e.g. Chateau Montelena) pick up a bottle and enjoy. Follow it up with a spa treatment in Calistoga in a place like Indian Springs (a great retro place to stay by the way).

[fourthrider]

I will speak to your day in Napa. At the North end of the parking lot of the Sutter Home Winery you will find a driveway with a sign for the Praeger (sp?) Port Works. It is a boutique family owned winery focused on ports, obviously, but they also produce some fine wine. They had huge buttery chard the last time I was there, which was some time ago, but super. I think you will find it well worth the stop.

Cannot fault your dim sum choices and will defer to the opinions of others; I enjoy both places.

Enjoy your stay in our lovely City.

[tanabutler]

A fun thing to do in Napa would be to put together a picnic of local products, go to a winery (e.g. Chateau Montelena) pick up a bottle and enjoy. Follow it up with a spa treatment in Calistoga in a place like Indian Springs (a great retro place to stay by the way).

What a great idea!

I highly recommend Oakville Grocery! The condiments are from ceiling to floor along the perimeter of the walls, and a deli is in the middle. You cannot go wrong with anything you buy: they're the best food joint around. I came home with some maple-chipotle grill sauce and Vidalia-fig sauce and a bunch of cheeses when I was there last. Mmmmm, condiments.

For lunch near Fisherman's Wharf, I'd recommend the consistently good and varied McCormick and Kuleto's. While it is in Ghiradelli Square, don't hold that against it. Ignore the tourists and march right in.

I've only had good meals there (probably at least a dozen since they opened), and the view is fantastic: right out on the Marina and the Golden Gate Bridge. Their menu is different every single day—based on seafood, and it's enormous. The clam chowder in a sourdough bowl is great. Wines very reasonable by the glass. Very nice decor, but you can be dressed up or down to enjoy it. If they are serving Hog Island oysters, don't hesitate.

Sample lunch menu (yes, that is how long the menu is)

You're coming at such a beautiful time of year!

[tanabutler]

Also, about Napa...do yourselves a favor and start on the Silverado Trail, which runs north/south parallel to the main drag. The traffic is much less dense. My don't miss wineries include only two:

S. Anderson (fantastic sparkling wines)

Niebaum-Coppola (on the main drag—Francis Ford did it right. You can see a Tucker automobile upstairs, the desk from "The Godfather," costumes from Bram Stoker's "Dracula," and tons of other film memorabilia.

I also love Robert Sinskey on the Silverado Trail—it's near the bottom of the road up, on the right. Beautiful building, beautiful stonework and a beautiful tasting room.

Edited August 8, 2003 by tanabutler (log)

[marie-louise]

dinner: Chez Panisse (reservations pending... did I read correctly on The web site that you can only make reservations 1 month from the time of your visit...so I can call only as early as Aug. 26? Is that right?)

Yes, that is correct. There are only two seatings downstairs-way too early and kinda late. The early reservations go first.

A relatively recent change is that you can also make reservations for upstairs a month in advance. They stagger these reservations so that you can eat upstairs in the 7ish-8ish range if you'd like.

The food is more or less the same upstairs and downstairs. Downstairs is a more classic, formal service experience; upstairs is a cafe with a noisier, more casual atmosphere. It just depends on what you prefer; you will get the essence of the CP experience on either floor.

You will hit a LOT of traffic heading east-if you come from your hotel you will hit ALL the city rush-hour traffic. I would recommend hanging out in Berkeley from 4 oclock on instead of driving over at dinnertime. Come and see some of our great food stores and have a piece of pizza at the Cheeseboard Collective (it is across the street from CP)

Zuni is definitely worth a visit. I prefer Ton Kiang, but only because I love their steamed dumplings.

[cheeseandchocolate]

I enthusiastically second "badthings" on Zuni and Delfina. Mmmmm. If you do wind up at Zuni, order the Gateau Victoire for dessert--deep, dark chocolate goodness. As for Delfina, don't pass up the little octopus starter with white beans and great EVOO, along with the incredible profiteroles with coffee ice cream. I no longer live in the Bay Area, but I *pine* for these things to this day. Hope they're still on the menu!

[tanabutler]

the little octopus starter with white beans and great EVOO,

You just made my mouth flood.

[Gary Soup]

Wednesday, Sept. 24

lunch: something close to the Fisherman's Wharf (late lunch, 3-4 p.m.).. probably a light meal in anticipation for a big dinner

Friday, Sept. 26

lunch: dim sum at Yank Sing OR Ton Kiang. Please advise! We're also thinking of venturing into Chinatown for dimsum...although we're open to any location.

Saturday, Sept. 27

lunch: Mission District: La Taqueria? or El Farolita? Please advise!

early dinner: Our flight leaves at 6, but looking for maybe a quick light dinner fix near the airport around 3:30-4 p.m.?

Wednesday Lunch: FW is a wasteland for good dining, unfortunately. I agree with McCormick & Kuleto as one of the best options; it gets as much a local trade as a tourist trade. There's an In-N-Out Burger at the wharf if you don't have them up there and are curious about it. (I've never been to one). Eagle Cafe at Pier 39 is steeped in history, and offers decent American chow at a bargain proce.

Friday Lunch: Tong Kiang, or better Chinatown, over Yank Sing. Yank Sing's dim sum is "interpreted" somewhat for the Western palate and very pricey. If you want to do Chinatown, I'd recommend Gold Mountain (on Broadway) or my current fave, Y. Ben House on Pacific. At Ton Kiang, or at the Chinatown places, you'd be getting more of the real dim sum experience; at Yank Sing on a Friday, you'd be part of a largely non-Asian business lunch crowd.

Saturday Lunch: La Taqueria is a good bet at lunch time. El Farolito and the other burrito places generally specialize in "San Francisco style" burritos (LOL) which are really dinner-sized, bulked up with a lot of rice and beans. They're good, but more than I, at least, like to eat for lunch, and you probably don't want to be burdened with doggy bags when you're traveling. La Taqueria's burritos dispense with the padding.

Saturday Pre-flight: Millbrae, next to the airport, has some lauded Chinese restaurants, if you didn't get enough Chinese food. The airport itself has some restaurants with pretensions to "cuisine". Millbrae and the airport are not my stomping grounds, so you may need to do your own further research, or hope that someone else chimes in.

[girl chow]

You people completely rock! Thanks so much for the great tips. I have added so many things to my list.

Keep those suggestions coming! I'd love to hear more about the CIA Greystone restaurant. Anyone have a memorable meal there? Are reservations a challenge on a Thursday evening in late September?

And I'd love to hear about Osteria del Forno. I'm starting to think maybe I should substitute Delfina or Zuni instead after hearing all the great things. Thoughts?

[tanabutler]

Another recommendation is to swing by the Ferry Plaza Farmer's Market building and go inside. Grab some Red Hawk cheese from Cowgirl Creamery, and a long sourdough bagette at the Acme Bread stall next door. The McEvoy olive oil is fantastic—it's got a hint of wheatgrass flavor in it. Maybe get some of that, too. (You'll take most of it home.) Then get some of the little 5 gram chocolate bars (bittersweet is my favorite, much better than semisweet) from Scharffen Berger. Stop at Peet's and get an iced jasmine tea, and if you got olive oil, ask for an extra paper cup.

Stroll outside, find a bench, and tear off a hunk of bread. Slather it with the soft Red Hawk cheese. Tear the top half of the paper cup off and pour in a little olive oil. Bread/cheese, bread/oil until the bread is gone. Sip tea. Watch boats. Nibble chocolate.

Life is good.

Seriously, go see the building, if nothing else. It's a true foodie's mecca, and is done on an awesome scale. The food-inspired mosaics that adorn each pillar are lovely—olives, grapes, cows, crabs, etc.

Edited August 8, 2003 by tanabutler (log)

[girl chow]

Stroll outside, find a bench, and tear off a hunk of bread. Slather it with the soft Red Hawk cheese. Tear the top half of the paper cup off and pour in a little olive oil. Bread/cheese, bread/oil until the bread is gone. Sip tea. Watch boats. Nibble chocolate.

Life is good.

Um, YUM!!!!

It is officially on the list.

I knew you people would have fantastic suggestions.

[tanabutler]

The Red Hawk cheese?

It just won "Best in Show" at a competition of over 600 cheese.

LA Times coverage yesterday

"When the winner was announced, a gasp went up. It was Red Hawk, a triple-cream, Epoisse-style made in Marin County by the Cowgirl Creamery. The cheese maker was Sue Conley, a conference organizer.

"Tongues will wag. But as one of 22 judges, I can say this was not Bush winning in Florida. There were no hanging chads. The cheese won for exceptional aroma, the richness of its milk, the mildness of the red mold on the skin, for sheer deliciousness."

By the way, my friend and I decided that the best way to consume the cheese was to tear off a chunk of bread, then tear it open (like a hotdog bun) and insert the cheese and close up the bread again. The cheese is pungent, and a little goes a long way, or it will overwhelm the bread. Mmmmmm, it's good.

Edited August 8, 2003 by tanabutler (log)

[tanabutler]

GirlChow, the big big big SF farmer's market runs on Saturday, so the place will be swarmed. You could make a fantastic picnic basket and take it to Golden Gate Park (or the marina, or lots of places).

Get strawberries and tomatoes from Ella Bella Farm, and peaches from Frog Hollow. Get Hog Island oysters and bread, and whatever else you see—you will be in paradise. Do it up! And by all means, get at least one perfect Zee Lady peach from Farmer Al at Frog Hollow. Zey are Zee Best!

[sashorter]

I would highly recommend Fringale - it isn't really in any neighborhood you'd be going to, but it's not at all far from downtown, and there are cabs aplenty.

It's very very good French Basque food. I've eaten there twice, and been blown away each time.

One appetizer that I loved was the Sautéed Prosciutto and Sheep's Milk Cheese Terrine. Salty, fatty, and delicious.

For entrees I've had the veal osso bucco with caramelized parsnips and the duck confit.

[Gary Soup]

GirlChow, the big big big SF farmer's market runs on Saturday, so the place will be swarmed. You could make a fantastic picnic basket and take it to Golden Gate Park (or the marina, or lots of places).

Actually, the "big big bog" farmers market is the Alemany market, on Sundays.

What the poster was recommending was the Ferry Building Market Hall, a seven day a week venture. That said, even on Saturday there is plenty of room to sit and enjoy a snack out on the pier near the fishermen. I've grabbed a sausage on a roll from the Aidell's booth and done just that several times at Saturday lunchtime.

Girchow could also pick up some fixin's and go across the street and use one of the outdoor tables at Justin Herman Plaza.

[tanabutler]

Sorry.

I was "the poster." I apologize for my ignorance about the farmer's market.

[Gary Soup]

The Red Hawk cheese?

It just won "Best in Show" at a competition of over 600 cheese.

"When the winner was announced, a gasp went up. It was Red Hawk, a triple-cream, Epoisse-style made in Marin County by the Cowgirl Creamery. The cheese maker was Sue Conley, a conference organizer.

"Tongues will wag. But as one of 22 judges, I can say this was not Bush winning in Florida. There were no hanging chads. The cheese won for exceptional aroma, the richness of its milk, the mildness of the red mold on the skin, for sheer deliciousness."

No hanging chads, but this ol' conspiracy theorist of the Paul Krassner school found it interesting that the FDA issused a press release the day before the conference began announcing that last year's Best of Show winner, Capricious Cheese Company (also from Northern California) was recalling some wheels of cheese because the FDA had discovered bacterial contamination on the rind of one sample.

FDA press release

[tanabutler]

Sorry.

I was "the poster." I apologize for my ignorance about the farmer's market.

[PekoePeony]

Since you're staying by the airport, I recommend Hong Kong Flower Lounge in Millbrae or, even better, Koi Palace in Daly City if you want an authentic dim sum experience. Yank Sing is good if you haven't had dim sum before or want a fancy setting. Their dishes are certainly of high quality and beautifully presented, but they just aren't anything special. On their good days, Ton Kiang has wonderfully fresh-tasting dim sum, but their menu is very limited. With Koi Palace, there's the hustle and bustle, long waits, and vast array of delicious dishes that give it a true dim sum feel. I've eaten at most of the dim sum places in the Bay Area (I'm Chinese-American, after all), and Koi Palace is tops, followed by HKFL in Millbrae (skip the other locations). You can also think of dinner at HKFL -- it's VERY close (2 miles?) to SFO.

Chez Panisse is good if you like the type of food that's being served that day. Meals at Masa's are much better -- in my opinion, it's the best in San Francisco -- but for California culinary history you gotta eat at Chez Panisse.

CIA Greystone is decent, but the food at Auberge du Soleil is better.

Have a great trip!

[Gary Soup]

Sorry.

I was "the poster." I apologize for my ignorance about the farmer's market.

It wasn't meant to be personal, Tana. Just my quixotic campaign against the hijacking of the "farmers market" concept by what are essentially gourmet food bazaars. (I guess I've just never seen the farmers harvesting their French pastries and chocolate confections.)

If "farmers market" has actually been redefined to mean the particular type of contemporary consumer experienc the FP market represents, perhaps you are correct. It IS big in foodies' priorities.

[tanabutler]

Well, viewing the list of participating farms and ranches at the Saturday market, it looks like a honking big farmer's market to me. Nearly a hundred by my estimation.

Is Alemany bigger than that? (Where is Alemany? I live in Santa Cruz and only visit SF occasionally.)

The list of participants. Inside the building, not many booths are open yet. Fewer than ten, I'd guess, which is why my recommendations about what to get were so limited. There is bread, cheese, olive oil, chocolate, Peet's (coffee and very limited tea selection)...oh, and there is a wine merchant, but you can only drink the wine inside the store at the bar.

And now I'm off to the Cabrillo Farmer's Market myself. Oysters, mmmm. $10/dozen.

[Nancy Berry]

The Alemany Farmers' Market is on Saturdays, NOT Sundays (there's a flea market there on Sundays). It is the oldest market in San Francisco -- it's been in existence since the '40's. The market is right off the Alemany exit of It has much lower prices than the Ferry Building market and a much greater variety of Asian produce than the Eurocentric Ferry Building market. Here's a link to more info re the Alemany Market:

Alemany Market Info.

[tanabutler]

Any idea if the farms are mostly organic?