Pierre Gagnaire or Guy Savoy?

[bobsdf]

I will be in Paris for one night in September--it's the embarkation point of a trip to southwest France and then northern Spain--and am trying to decide which of the above two restaurants I should dine at. I'm assuming that I will be able to secure a reservation, but I realize this may be optimistic. I am hoping that some of you who have eaten at both would be able to provide some guidance. Any input will be much appreciated.

[ballast_regime]

Pierre Gagnaire, hands down.

Godspeed!

Ian Lowe

ballast/regime

[Bux]

My personal decision would be to choose Gagnaire, and it was. Alas, I cannot report first hand on Savoy. It's a personal decision anyway and none of ours might match yours. Now tell us where you are dining in the southwest of France and north of Spain. Spain has become a very exciting and interesting country in which to eat.

[fresh_a]

It all depends on what sort of experience you're looking for. Guy Savoy is the simpler, less complicated of the two, and often uses very few ingredients to create an amazing effect (like tuna belly with sauce beurre blanc and gingembre). At Savoy, the staff is young,motivated and totally into their vocation. Pierre Gagnaire is more of a wow experience, very creative, offering sometimes too much sensation for the palate, but definately the most adventurous of the two.

[ballast_regime]

What fresh_a means is, choose Gagnaire.

[fresh_a]

Oh thank you

[Gary Marshall]

i've been to savoy and thought it excellent, however a friend of mine in the trade who is not easily impressed has just eaten at gagnaire and thought it one of his best meals ever. Unfortunately he said he might have to mortgage his restaurant to pay the bill!

(As an aside, on the same trip he managed lunch at arpege and dinner at boyer les crayeres, now that's dedication!)

gary

[bobsdf]

Thank you all for the comments; keep ‘em coming!

Bux- Some friends and I are renting a house located near a place called Segalas, about 40kms north of Agen. We all enjoy cooking - a minor obsession in my case - so I’m sure we’ll take advantage of the local markets for the most part. However, if anyone has any “must try” recommendations for the area I’d be delighted to hear them. We had entertained the idea of going to Michel Bras but unfortunately it's a little too far out of the way for us.

In Spain we (my wife and I) will be spending 3 or 4 days in San Sebastien. We’ll then spend a few days traveling to Madrid. So far I’ve reserved Saturday night at Arzak and Sunday lunch at Berasategui (I’m not sure how we’ll be able to eat after that combo). We ate at Arzak a few years ago and thoroughly enjoyed it, so we’re very excited to be going back. This will be a first for Berasategui. I’m also looking forward to further exploration of San Sebastien’s many tapas bars. Last trip we went to quite a few and still didn’t make much of a dent.

As a result of the various reports I've found on egullet, we’ll be trying a number of places I had previously been unaware of. These include Kaia-Kaiepe, Echaurren, and Restaurante Coque.

I hope to stop for lunch in Aranda de Duero. I forget the name of the place, but the last time we were there we lunched on roast lamb at a wonderful asador restaurant. Chorizo and morcilla followed by wood oven roasted baby lamb, great local wine list, very simple yet delicious

[inventolux]

Pierre Gagniare, went there on my honeymoon. One of my top 5 experiences of all time. Order the tasting menu. Its very expensive (220 us dollars) but well worth it.

[Bux]

If you have time, check out Hondarribia just across the border from France on the coast. It's a neat town with a centuries old section and an interesting fiherman's quarters that's quite reminscent of Barcelonetta in Barcelona, only much smaller in size and scale. I don't know much about the food there. We spent the night there after having lunch at Martin Berasategui. We never could work up an appetite for dinner. I managed a few tapas around town and my wife nursed a few glasses of wine as she accompanied me on my quest for tapas.

There's been a lot posted here on the Basque area and not much else I can add. It's been a few years since we've been there, but we're looking forward to returning soon.

If you have an interest in eaux-de-vie, I'd highly recommend a visit to the Saint-Gayrand distillery. It's south of Agen in Moncaut. It was kind of hard to find and well off the beaten path. It would be wise to phone ahead and see if he's still operating and if someone will be there, as well as to get instructions. 05 53 97 13 83, or perhaps 05 53 97 53 97. Once there it could be hard to leave. When we were there, the owner was quite free with his pours and eager to have company. His products were also excellent -- some of the smoothest eaux-de-vie I have ever had. It's a very small artisanal operation.

[Nikolaus]

Gagnaire is on my list for next november, I am still missing it. But my experiences at Guy Savoy have all been outstanding, always and with no exception. The environment is warm and very personalized, service is attentive and professional (every table has an own Maitre d', or at least this is the impression, and they even ask You want language You want the service in, thereby not confining themselves to English of French).

As to teh menu: the degustation is marvellous and rich, with all available signature dishes and many more; the list provides other wonderful things. And, finally, there always are several specials of the day, not on the list, and surprizing and amazing (last time I had astonishing sea urchins with chestnuts and aromatic butterfoam). Besides, in addition to Your choices, they interrupt You more than once with little portions of side creations, pre desserts, amuses, etc...(I ordered one dessert, I got four).

So far, I like Savoy best among all three stars in Paris, and at this moment I am missing only two, Grand Vefour and Gagnaire. What I can tell about Savoy is that the place and the dishes have, as I love to say, heart and character, apart form skilled execution.

[fresh_a]

My impressions exactly. I think I prefer Guy Savoy as well...

[PaulaJK]

I found the service at Savoy to be perfect......

and the cusine very interesting. We were under-

whelmed [sorry] at Gagnaire's and had horrid

service...perhaps an off night but it was

valentine's Day and one would have thought.........

[Bux]

Paula, was the chef and Mme. Gagnaire in the house the night you had terrible service?

[Nikolaus]

Bux, You'll certainly agree that this shouldn't make any difference and could not be a justification. First, because if it is enough that the boss is out once to make it a bad evening, I would strongly question the plce's overall reliability and standard. Second, because if I travelled hundreds or thousands of miles only to be there on that particular evening, I don't care about who's there or not, third, because at that level no faults are admitted.

[Bux]

Nikolaus, I agree and have always made a great point of saying that a chef is, above all, an executive. His job is to organize, train and run a kitchen whose success is not dependent on his being there. At the very least, I hold him responsible for not leaving unless he can trust the staff he leaves behind. When the chef is also the owner, his responsibility carries over to the front of the house as well. I raised the issue, not to justify bad service on Gagnaire's absence, but because the one very negative report I've heard about Gagnaire came from a couple who dined there when neither Gagnaire or his wife were there and I'm trying to learn if this could be a factor. I will note that these people were also unimpressed with the food. I could say they have conservative tastes, but they are also the same people who raved about Roellinger years ago and who warned me I might find his food too adventurous for my taste. I will say that Gagnaire can transform products and that the resulting dish often bears little resemblance in taste to what we might expect from the ingredients. I can understand that some diners may find this upsetting in a manner that gets in the way of enjoying the dinner. I've drifted from the service aspect, but the one negative set of comments I've received came from diners who were unhappy with both food and service. I'm a diner of limited means -- I suppose we all have our limits, don't we? I've only eaten at Gagnaire twice. After the first meal, which thrilled us, I was quite careful to whom I would recommend the place in spite of our excitement at having dined there. He had two stars in Paris then. After our second meal, I have become more willing to recommend Gagnaire to any gastronome who can afford to eat there and who has dined at enough other fine restaurants. My reasoning is based less on the likelihood that Gagnaire has universal appeal than it is on the fact that I think he's a force one needs to deal with to have a founded sense of contemporary Parisian food, if not contemporary western food. For many, the risk may not be worth it and for them my reasoning may not be sound.

[PaulaJK]

Bux, Chef Gagnaire was present, including visiting

the diningroom. I believe Madame was also

present but I am less than 100% on this one.

It was alarmingly poor service, including

pouring of the wine. While not excusing it,

I had the impression that they were busy

bringing so many plates for each course.

It probably is the only time that I have had

truly wretched service at a multi starred

restaurant.

[paulbrussel]

Well, since I don't know Savoy by own experience, I would recommend Gagnaire. I have been there three times last year and I was never disappointed - on the contrary: it has become one of my favourites!

I always tried the lunch: 85 € for about ten different plats.

Dinner is much more exepensive, as every where in top restaurants in Paris...

[victornet]

Gagnaire, no question, in my experience. Though I've been to Gagnaire a couple of times since a visit to Savoy (a very good meal that did not earn a place on the 'go back' list) and Savoy has since been upgraded by a star - perhaps he is attending more to the eponymous spot and less on the bistro empire.

[fresh_a]

He's always been attending to his *** restaurant, which has never been diluted in any way by his "Bistro Empire". Shall we accuse Gagnaire of dumbing down his talents for "Sketch"?

[Suzi Edwards]

can anyone give me some detailed advice on eating in paris over NYE?

to give you some background, i ate at el bulli earlier this year and found the experience frustrating in that only 3 of the courses delivered a "wow" factor for me, many were simply good or interesting and 5 were, to my palate, horrible. on the other hand i *loved* my meal at RHR and felt that it delivered a more complete experience with no misses. i want to eat at pierre gagnaire but am wondering if i should bite the bullet and have dinner or if lunch might be a better option. if i go for lunch there, which 3 star would recommend for dinner? guy savoy perhaps?

[Matthew Grant]

Tarka, more info on your El Bulli meal please!

[robyn]

can anyone give me some detailed advice on eating in paris over NYE?

to give you some background, i ate at el bulli earlier this year and found the experience frustrating in that only 3 of the courses delivered a "wow" factor for me, many were simply good or interesting and 5 were, to my palate, horrible. on the other hand i *loved* my meal at RHR and felt that it delivered a more complete experience with no misses. i want to eat at pierre gagnaire but am wondering if i should bite the bullet and have dinner or if lunch might be a better option. if i go for lunch there, which 3 star would recommend for dinner? guy savoy perhaps?

Hi Tarka - I have to admit that I have not been to Paris in years. But if you are talking New Year's Eve - Grand Vefour is just gorgeous. Sparkly - just right for that kind of evening (or the holiday season in general). It's a room that goes well with champagne :). I have dined at Grand Vefour - it was the first 3 star I ever ate at - then it lost its stars - and now it's got them back - so I assume the food is every bit as wonderful as it was when I ate there years and years ago. Robyn

[mdibiaso]

I cannot say which you should go to, but I have been to both often and can say how they differ, and they differ a lot.

Gagnaire is an experience. Even if you order ala carte (1 appertizer, 1 main, 1 dessert) you will be served at least 10 different dishes. The tasting menu will get you 20. On a good night 10 of the 20 are very memorable. On a bad night maybe only 5. Gagnaire make great food but he also challenges your mind. And every dish is rather small so if you really like something you end up wishing there was more. This type of cooking is EXTREMELY wine unfriendly, with many different dishes and often many different flavors in one dish. But it can be exhilarately to experience so many different spicings, techniques and combinations one would never think on oneself. The service has gotten better over the years but is still not what I would call comfortable. Mr and Mrs Gagnaire are very dedicated and often there even on Sundays.

Savoy is more traditional and not risky. Many courses have been on the menu for more than 5 years and perfected over time. You can eat a tasting menu or ala carte or create your own tasting menu with half portions. The preparation and seasonings are much more traditional (you will see truffles and foie gras at Savoy and they are virtually no existant at Gagnaire). The food is thus very wine friendly and they have a great wine list with many half bottles and good choices by the glass.

Both are cosmopolitan in atmosphere but Savoy is a little more romantic in my opinion. Prices about the same, but Savoy can get more expensive since the food encourages better and more expensive wine choices. Gagnaire could be experienced with beer or water in my opinion after a glass of champagne as an aperativ.

Hope this helps you make an informed choice. Neither will disappoint if you go with expectations in line with the descriptions above.

[Suzi Edwards]

what fantastic information. you've now helped me decide that i have to go to both :-)

let's assume that i have to have lunch at one and dinner at another. which order would you do it in?

i've really put off posting about el bulli. i have lots of musings on it but nothing that's a really homogenous post. i'll do something in the next couple of days.