Indian Restaurant Cooking

[Monica Bhide]

Recently I have noticed a number of posters here who own their own restaurants/are chefs at Indian restaurants... I would love to hear from them on a couple of things:

-- How has Indian food at your restaurant changed over the past years?

-- What has been your experience in this industry

-- What is the most asked for item on the menu and why do you think that is

-- Cooking related question -- WOuld you share your most prized recipe/ cooking tip/ cooking story with us

[BBhasin]

What's happenening Monica ? No one wants to bite, where are you Suvir, Indiachef, Anil, Prasad2 and the rest of you great people?

Maybe, Monica, you asked too much in one question. One could write a book based on your querries.

OK I'll take first bite and ramble a bit and perhaps others could respond.

Food at the restaurant where I work has not really changed. We have always tried to stay as close to authentic as possible and offer the best we can within our price structure. The change has been perhaps in the additions to the selections. The present diner (compared to just ten years ago) is more sophisticated in his taste and knowledge of Indian cuisine as there is more available, he is more educated, well travaled and better exposed to the cuisine.

But he is definetly seeking a change and variety from the familiar items on traditional 'overseas Indian menus'. He is exited about South Indian and Indo Chinese Dishes. We have addressed that by offering newer items on our menu as also the sunday buffet. Things like Tandoori Chicken, Vindaloo, Kormas etc which used to be considered exotic are now plain or comfort food.

The Indian diner on the other hand, is begenning to graze in other pastures namely Mexican and Thai, both being spicy.

[Monica Bhide]

I am too wondering where everyone is. The forum seems quiet.

Indiachef?

Anil?

COmeon guys

[Suvir Saran]

BBhasin, I did not answer quickly for I knew the post was addressed to chefs and owners of restaurants.

I have owned and cooked at a restaurant, but not now, so I would hardly be the best one to answer just yet.

I am awaiting replies from the professionals we have here, before I can share my own two pennies worth.

[Suvir Saran]

Food at the restaurant where I work has not really changed. We have always tried to stay as close to authentic as possible and offer the best we can within our price structure. The change has been perhaps in the additions to the selections. The present diner (compared to just ten years ago) is  more sophisticated in his taste and knowledge of Indian cuisine as there is more available, he is more educated, well travaled and better exposed to the cuisine.

What are the new additions to your menue? Care to share...

[Monica Bhide]

BBhasin, I did not answer quickly for I knew the post was addressed to chefs and owners of restaurants.

I have owned and cooked at a restaurant, but not now, so I would hardly be the best one to answer just yet.

I am awaiting replies from the professionals we have here, before I can share my own two pennies worth.

Come on! I would love to hear your thoughts and experiences.

[anil]

I never owned a restaurant. I do not cook either. I manage to make breakfast once a week

[indiachef]

How has Indian food at your restaurant changed over the past years? –

Indian foods haven’t changed a lot, in restaurants and elsewhere. I do not own one nor am associated with one professionally, though I used to be a Chef. There is not much scope for a change either. Diners still want their old fashioned “CURRY” – which does not exist and yet exists

The Colonials classified all Indian foods as Curry - just like the way they enslaved the masses and regimented them and of course UNITED them with ENGLISH. So we became the curry people, the curry race - we ate spices more than food.

Nobody raised a hint of a rebellion, when they massacred Indian foods by calling it names. Maybe we were busy fighting for our freedom, having already been smothered to believe in their perception of everything Indian. We cooked for them - and they branded our foods. Because we did not stand up.

So where is the best Chicken Tikka Masala made - London of course. They now claim it to be their National dish - happy to know some English writer claims Chicken Tikka Masala to be English and not Indian - Thank you because our food is great, and so is our culture and we do not get buried under your curry

Realistically speaking Indian cuisine does not have a base. And that is its uniqueness. It cannot be tamed, or confined to a few French gastronomic rules.

For a long time I thought this was to our disadvantage. But we have lived centuries with it - and it has certainly held its own in the culinary realm.

Simply put our foods are so varied and the cuisines so vast it is humanly impossible to describe it. The English with all their Colonial might failed to conquer and master it, feigning ignorance for the most part. Our gourmets were subdued with brutality and "bakshish" to suit the masters' needs. Did we stand a chance to express? We don't know. We chose to impress instead and Curry was born to satiate the Master's palate. What a pity. We take pains in spelling out “RATATOUILLE” (is it?) and our “BAINGAN BHURTA” is labelled as “Smoked Eggplant Curry”.

Honestly and truly, we are still bound with an untiring effort to satisfy the Master

However the good thing is, we Indians eat genuine Indian foods at home, which the world does not know much about. The trend in Indian restaurants in India has been to bring regional/community foods to the front. A number of luxury Hotels and Restaurants have ventured in these.

What has been your experience in this industry

Experience has been mixed. Though I miss the sweaty kitchens and the mild arrogance of the Brigade sometimes purely lethargic attitude, there is not much regret – and that’s a personal point of View.

A very pertinent question to be pondered would be “WHY” – have we let our standards stoop – this I ask without emphasizing on the Results. Our best efforts at getting globally popular are imitating concepts – isn’t “ ”TABLA” an example, maybe it should be excluded from this argument, since it does not fit the role of a Desi Restaurant. And for that matter – Bukhara – which recently got listed as the 20th best restaurant in the World – is only a culmination of a Marketing strategy.

Having made numerous attempts at standardizing, not that one achieves a whole lot; I think it is still possible to do better than the mundane. Defining standards and adhering to them is one area we have failed a lot. Dependence on uneducated chefs and unskilled help with a high labour turnover hinders any long term planning and investment.

My entrepreneurial skills and knowledge is not top of the line, but the sheer fear of failure might deter a lot of investors from taking the right approach.

Rewards haven’t been too great either, with some establishments literally cheating their Employees – and that’s again a personal experience.

What is the most asked for item on the menu and why do you think that is -

Is there any room for any thing else than “Chicken Tikka Masala”.

Cooking related question -- Would you share your most prized recipe/ cooking tip/ cooking story with us

prized recipe – I don’t have one

cooking tip – Yes if it’s specifically directed

cooking story with us – They’re all facts. No fiction here. To be concluded…

[Monica Bhide]

I never owned a restaurant. I do not cook either. I manage to make breakfast once a week 

But you travel so much and have so much insight into the scene!

[Suvir Saran]

Thank you Indiagirl!

Many, many thanks for a great post.

What more could one say.

[Monica Bhide]

Thank you Indiagirl!

Many, many thanks for a great post.

What more could one say.

I think you meant Indiachef!

[Monica Bhide]

Thanks Indiachef! You must have a favorite recipe.. do share. I always enjoy reading your posts.

[Suvir Saran]

Thank you Indiagirl!

Many, many thanks for a great post.

What more could one say.

I think you meant Indiachef!

Yes, surely, you are right. Sorry! Indiachef, that was a great post.

[BBhasin]

Thank you Indiachef that was a really great post and hope it gets the ball rolling on this issue and more people log on and share their experiences. You sound like an angry idealisist though, which is good.

Like you, I will not call myself an expert but having journeyed long through Indian cuisine I will say that I may have gained some knowledge and experience But far as Indian cuisine is concered my experience is, the further I try to educate myself the more confused I get. Who is right, your customer ( who pays the bill ), the food critic who can make you or break you ( though most in my opinion need more research and education) , the acclaimed cookbook author ( with his 'authentic' reciepes for american kitchens) or should I follow the Guru who taught me when I was an apprentice. I don't know, so what do I do? I listen to all and do my own. Works for me!

well, here are some more so called experience ramblings.....

Is everything in India served with rice?? That's what you would believe if you dined at 99.9% Indian restaurants in America. When I arrived more than a decade ago I was appalled to see even things like Bharta and saag Paneer served with rice. How can these idiots do this, my punjabi mind would scream and today I enjoy the dryish bhatra with rice myself and serve it the same way at our place but we do throw in a complimentary side of dal to moisten the experience. A new place opened up close to us where you ordered the main dish and then added rice or breads (at an extra charge of course) . Numerous customers of ours tried the place ( which in my opinion is quite good ) and returned with the verdict that they felt stiffed because they were charged exta when they asked for rice, it was like someone had pulled the speghetti from underneath their meatballs!!

In further episodes....

Why Indians sometimes feel uncomfortable in Indian places ( Monica, this one is for you, as u mentioned such experience.

The American Food Critic

What I learn't from the Brits

Who are these people actually cooking in Indian restaurants( I can only talk about the US )

etc etc

[anil]

All from Bbhasin

I don't know, so what do I do? I listen to all and do my own. Works for me!

Excellent. A punjabi saying "Sunani subdi, Karni apni - fir sub rabbde" Which translates exactly as "I listen to all and do my own and the rest is God's"

I was appalled to see even things like Bharta and saag Paneer .....

As a punj have you or do you serve maaki-ki-roti if a customer wants with the saag ? or phulkas with the bharta ?

[BBhasin]

Anil'

we do not have the dough ready for makki-ki-roti. Tandoori roti, nan, paratha, puri etc are on the menu and if anyone desires phulka/chapatti. No problem.

Incidently the two most commonly used phrases in the hospitality industry.

1. No problem ( because we are so eager to please our patron/customer we will promise anything) and

2. I am sorry ( besause when we were comitting No 1 we were using our heart and not our brain )

[indiachef]

You sound like an angry idealisist though, which is good.

I am not an idealist. Idealists are labelled as such to be portrayed as “anti-realists”.

Having worked for long in this trade, I do not fit the profile of an idealist.

What I penned is pure reality.

I know it is a lot of hard work to achieve those standards anyway. Do we need to worry; there aren’t any restaurants that have made processes their focal point anyways. It’s just the day-to-day operational issues that get in the way, and in the name of being flexible and creative, they would succumb to any pressures.

Having the only option to depend on skeletal staff and untrained for the most part, there is probably the reverse in place.

Training is probably unheard of and non-existent. Amendments in current structures for process improvements are limited to saving the bucks.

Why can’t we be more firm and stern with our policies? Can we establish some standards with our processes be it recipes, bulk cooking, menus, service style, portion control, staff attire, hygiene, inventory control.

True a Customer comes in first, but give some time to establish standards, be they even simple and easy to achieve and maintain rather than surprise the clientele with grease bowls.

Agreeing to go at lengths in the name of Customer satisfaction stems from the fact that we do not have guidelines. I mean if we cannot make Phulkas from Tandoori Roti dough – we should not and shouldn’t Parathas and Rotis be made from different dough’s. Why do we not make things, as they ought to be? Isn’t it true that we allow our neo-classical self-styled chefs to run our kitchens?

Order more than a few dishes from an Indian restaurant and be sure they taste almost the same. Isn’t that a very common observation? True Indian diners are pickier when it comes to Indian restaurants, cause they compare food standards with their own home made foods.

Are we the only ones at fault? I guess NO. The attitude needs to be changed globally in our perception of everything Indian – does not come cheap. We got to pay and so do we demand our price for good food and service.

Stand out folks!

Have an association of like-minded people!

Educate the clientele!

Justify your stance for doing things the right way!

Have some common issues discussed and shared!

And Monica, recipe is not of much consequence, its how one treats foods that matters.

To be concluded…

[indiachef]

Was it Escoffier then who classified French foods and the Mother sauces?

Is there someone doing this to Indian foods.

Maybe it doesn’t need to be classified based on the same lines. But maybe we do as a matter of academic interest and as a subject for cooking schools. Cause if there are no rules there should be no practice and if there is a practice there should be a guideline

We do agree that almost all Indian restaurants have a few prepared base sauces, used in the so-called a la carte menu.

Escoffier has also been credited with inventing/popularizing the A la Carte concept, although Ritz must have had a role to play

From a hospitality perspective, we do seem to follow what was set as a practice. But from a purely culinary point of view, we seem to ignore this aspect and tend to camouflage all Indian foods as traditional and authentic.

One reason for the deficit I see is that Indian foods to a large extent are undefined. There has seldom been an attempt in doing this, though it is common to find Chefs coming out in the open demonstrating recipes and tricks of the trade. What we need is a flamboyant academician to theorize the art of Indian cooking. To a large extent theoreticians have no room in the business of Indian foods. We are still too small to make any impact globally. Not withstanding the fact that “CURRY” is so very popular in England, our cuisine is still in its Infancy.

Having numerous recipes and a depth in its varieties does only make a cuisine rich.

Basically traditional Indian foods depended on the so-called Handi cooking not restricted to the Northern Indian style only. Banquets are one example where one sees this practice. A la Carte menus is a compromise on the originality. Though most restaurants in North America do their basic bulk foods like sauces and the meats in handis retaining its originality to some extent, it leans more towards adhering to a set standard rather than being truly authentic.

And I feel its time that we introduced Murg Makhni into the mainstream cuisine. This I speak with vehemence, cause the English will have a patent for it. Very soon they will sue us for using the word “CURRY” in our terminology.

We almost lost the rights to say “TURMERIC”, and still battling with “BASMATI” or is it “BUSS- MAATTI”?

[Episure]

You sound like an angry idealisist though, which is good.

I am not an idealist. Idealists are labelled as such to be portrayed as “anti-realists”.

Having worked for long in this trade, I do not fit the profile of an idealist.

What I penned is pure reality.

I know it is a lot of hard work to achieve those standards anyway. Do we need to worry; there aren’t any restaurants that have made processes their focal point anyways. It’s just the day-to-day operational issues that get in the way, and in the name of being flexible and creative, they would succumb to any pressures.

Having the only option to depend on skeletal staff and untrained for the most part, there is probably the reverse in place.

Training is probably unheard of and non-existent. Amendments in current structures for process improvements are limited to saving the bucks.

Why can’t we be more firm and stern with our policies? Can we establish some standards with our processes be it recipes, bulk cooking, menus, service style, portion control, staff attire, hygiene, inventory control.

True a Customer comes in first, but give some time to establish standards, be they even simple and easy to achieve and maintain rather than surprise the clientele with grease bowls.

Agreeing to go at lengths in the name of Customer satisfaction stems from the fact that we do not have guidelines. I mean if we cannot make Phulkas from Tandoori Roti dough – we should not and shouldn’t Parathas and Rotis be made from different dough’s. Why do we not make things, as they ought to be? Isn’t it true that we allow our neo-classical self-styled chefs to run our kitchens?

Order more than a few dishes from an Indian restaurant and be sure they taste almost the same. Isn’t that a very common observation? True Indian diners are pickier when it comes to Indian restaurants, cause they compare food standards with their own home made foods.

Are we the only ones at fault? I guess NO. The attitude needs to be changed globally in our perception of everything Indian – does not come cheap. We got to pay and so do we demand our price for good food and service.

Stand out folks!

Have an association of like-minded people!

Educate the clientele!

Justify your stance for doing things the right way!

Have some common issues discussed and shared!

And Monica, recipe is not of much consequence, its how one treats foods that matters.

To be concluded…

←

Indiachef, I notice you are present here after a long time and this is such an interesting topic. I would love to see you post some more of your views which are so accurate.

What's your opinion on recent trends in Indian restaurant cuisine styles. On Indo-chinese, lighter styles and that dreaded f***** word.

[indiachef]

Episure, I am not in the Trade anymore, though the passion for food still exists. Can't really speak much about trends.

Unfortunately the Molson muscle has started bothering a little

Somewhere in this topic I was asked my favorite recipe. There have been many but one that stands out is the "Achar Gosht" - given to me by a Disciple of the so called God of Indian Foods - Imtiaz Quereshi

Achar Gosht:

Lamb - 1kg

thick yoghurt - 1/2 kg

real mustard oil - 1/4 litre

salt - as required

roasted coriander powder - 15 gms

mustard seeds - 5 gms

methi seeds - 5 gms

kalonji - 5 gms

green chillies - 7 to 8 nos

In a thick bottom pot (steel) - mix the cleaned meat with yoghurt, salt and the coriander powder. Leave it overnight in a refrigerator

Roast other spices and pound them coarsely. Stuff in slit green chillies

Cook the marinated meat - covered on a moderately hot stove. Check, stir occasionally. When meat is almost cooked, remove lid and let the water evaporate.

Add stuffed chillies, and cover the pot. Simmer it for a little over 10 minutes. Turn of the stove, let meat stand in for a couple of hours.

Reheat and serve

This dish is fairly dry and may have considerable amount of oil separated from the meat

[deliad]

Indiachef,

This sounds delicious, however, I am not clear when the oil is to be used. So a couple of questions:

1. You did not mention any water in the ingredients list. How much do we need?

2. Do we cook the marinated meat in the mustard oil or water?

Thanks

Episure, I am not in the Trade anymore, though the passion for food still exists. Can't really speak much about trends.

Unfortunately the Molson muscle has started bothering a little

Somewhere in this topic I was asked my favorite recipe. There have been many but one that stands out is the "Achar Gosht" - given to me by a Disciple of the so called God of Indian Foods - Imtiaz Quereshi

Achar Gosht:

Lamb - 1kg

thick yoghurt - 1/2 kg

real mustard oil - 1/4 litre

salt - as required

roasted coriander powder - 15 gms

mustard seeds - 5 gms

methi seeds - 5 gms

kalonji - 5 gms

green chillies - 7 to 8 nos

In a thick bottom pot (steel) - mix the cleaned meat with yoghurt, salt and the coriander powder. Leave it overnight in a refrigerator

Roast other spices and pound them coarsely. Stuff in slit green chillies

Cook the marinated meat - covered on a moderately hot stove. Check, stir occasionally. When meat is almost cooked, remove lid and let the water evaporate.

Add stuffed chillies, and cover the pot. Simmer it for a little over 10 minutes. Turn of the stove, let meat stand in for a couple of hours.

Reheat and serve

This dish is fairly dry and may have considerable amount of oil separated from the meat

←

[indiachef]

You do not need any water to make Achar Gosht. However, if the meat dries up before being cooked, you may add as required

Mustard oil is to be added when marinating the meat