TDG: Contrarian Wine

["T"]

Chablis and other un-oaked chardonnays are doing it for me these days. I had an un-oaked chardonnay yesterday that I thought was a sauvignon blanc on the nose but on the palate un-oaked chardonnay. I love the way it makes me focus, eveluate then re-evaluate when I taste.

How many tasty New World Marsanne's can you guy's name?

[SFJoe]

Will Rose d'Anjou ever be cool? What about some of the new English wines?

Rose d'Anjou is cool already if it is made by Marc Angeli.

English wine will never be cool, sorry.

[Jason Perlow]

Am I the only person who thinks the Germanic varietals are made better in Alsace than in Germany?

Yes.

I like the Alsatian Reislings but most of them are a bit to hot (high in alcohol) for my taste. Most good German Reislings are anywhere from 7.5 percent to 10 percent alcohol, where the ones from Alsace can be up to 13.5. To me thats a flaw. In Alsace you just dont get the variation in terroir from Reislings that you do in the various regions of Germany that grow it. Saar-Mosel-Ruuwer stuff TASTES different than Rheinhessen and Rheingau, etc. Austrian Reislings are nice too.

HOWEVER, When it comes to Gewurztraminer and Pinot Gris, Alsace is where its at.

Edited March 29, 2003 by Jason Perlow (log)

[Craig Camp]

Am I the only person who thinks the Germanic varietals are made better in Alsace than in Germany?

For me they are different wines and hard to compare, as the Alsatian wines are powerful and can have relatively high alcohol levels while the Germans wines are defined by acidity, elegance and low alcohol.

I love them both - but for different reasons.

Edited March 29, 2003 by Craig Camp (log)

[Fat Guy]

I've never found the German wines to live up to their promise of enough acidity to balance the fruit and sweetness. For some reason people are more forgiving when it comes to sweet wines. Whenever I see a ridiculously high score in Wine Spectator, especially for an inexpensive bottle, I can predict with a high degree of certainty that it will be a relatively sweet wine. And the very dry German wines aren't particularly good on the whole. I remain a doubter. I'll stick with Alsace until someone convinces me.

[Jason Perlow]

I've never found the German wines to live up to their promise of enough acidity to balance the fruit and sweetness. For some reason people are more forgiving when it comes to sweet wines. Whenever I see a ridiculously high score in Wine Spectator, especially for an inexpensive bottle, I can predict with a high degree of certainty that it will be a relatively sweet wine. And the very dry German wines aren't particularly good on the whole. I remain a doubter. I'll stick with Alsace until someone convinces me.

You just havent had enough of them, Steven... and I think you're making excuses just because you hate the krauts and its fashionable to do so. Sorry, I can read you like a freaking book.

You really should go to Gluckstern's next germanic tasting in NYC. You'll taste a LOT of wines from many regions. I think the next time is in October:

http://www.winesforfood.com/Taste/taste.asp

Edited March 29, 2003 by Jason Perlow (log)

[Craig Camp]

I've never found the German wines to live up to their promise of enough acidity to balance the fruit and sweetness. For some reason people are more forgiving when it comes to sweet wines. Whenever I see a ridiculously high score in Wine Spectator, especially for an inexpensive bottle, I can predict with a high degree of certainty that it will be a relatively sweet wine. And the very dry German wines aren't particularly good on the whole. I remain a doubter. I'll stick with Alsace until someone convinces me.

Not enough acid in German wines? Try going to the wineries and tasting the young wines for a couple of days - your teeth literally hurt from being assaulted by all the acid.

[Jason Perlow]

I've never found the German wines to live up to their promise of enough acidity to balance the fruit and sweetness. For some reason people are more forgiving when it comes to sweet wines. Whenever I see a ridiculously high score in Wine Spectator, especially for an inexpensive bottle, I can predict with a high degree of certainty that it will be a relatively sweet wine. And the very dry German wines aren't particularly good on the whole. I remain a doubter. I'll stick with Alsace until someone convinces me.

Not enough acid in German wines? Try going to the wineries and tasting the young wines for a couple of days - your teeth literally hurt from being assaulted by all the acid.

Some of them are so acidic, its almost like drinking lemon juice.

[Lesley C]

Totally cool, barrel-aged rosés.

You heard it here first!

[Beachfan]

My experience with German wines was just like fat-guy's until last week at Roxanne's (which has a very nice wine list by the way). 2001 Selbach-Ostler Kabinett Mosel.

If someone is familiar with that wine, can you recommend similar ones? I thought it was very lively, with nice acid to balance complex flavor profile, the exact opposite of every German wine I had before, monochromatic and sweet.

[Adam Balic]

How many tasty New World Marsanne's can you guy's name?

"Tahbilk", "Mitchellton", "St. Huberts" and "Yeringberg". The first has the oldest and largest planting of Marsanne in the world. There are some USA producers as well, but the examples I have tasted seem to have oaked the wines to death.

[Adam Balic]

English wine will never be cool, sorry.

Don't be sorry, as I'm Australian, not English. I beleive their wines compare to Australian wines, in much the same way that their cricket team compares to the Australian team. Having said that, the lack of world class English wine can be attributed to the climate, whereas, there is not excuse for the Cricket team.

Below is a link to a recent artical on English wine:

English wine

[StephenT]

Having said that, the lack of world class English wine can be attributed to the climate, whereas, there is not excuse for the Cricket team.

Haven't heard of the phrase "rain stops play"?

[AdamLawrence]

The only world-class wines likely to come out of England will be fizzes. The comparison, climate and geology-wise, with Champagne is actually quite close. Nyetimber is a superb drop, really fabulous, and I like Camel Valley very much too.

Adam

[Adam Balic]

The articles that I have seen suggest that Germanic varietals are doing best in England, not Chardonnay. I wonder how Germanic varietals do in Fizz?

[AdamLawrence]

The trouble is that most of the Germanic grapes grown in England are hybrids such as Bacchus, Dornfelder, etc, that have been produced more with early ripening in mind than making good wine. I'm not aware of many UK vineyards growing riesling, though Camel Valley makes one in a Mosel style; it's OK, I wouldn't go any further. The use of classic champagne varieties is growing though; you have to remember that the grapes used to make champagne are not very ripe, so achieving 14 per cent potential alcohol isn't the issue. The French, Germans etc, have had centuries to work out which grape varieties grow where - the English are really only starting to scratch the surface.

Adam

[tighe]

A few disjointed remarks about the original article....

a) Hasn't the "anything goes with wine/the only thing that matters is what you like" thing become so prevalent with populist wine commentators that it is nearly as cliched as the traditionalist line? Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with it necessarily, I was involved for a number of years with a group called WineBRATS whose sole aim was to make wine accessible to youngish people. It just seems like it is now getting pushed past its logical extreme in some quarters.

b) One of the most remarkable food/wine pairings I've ever had was a grilled pepper steak (heavy on the pepper) with a white zin. I've never had the cojones to actually order a bottle of white zin in a steak house however....

c) If drinking little-known German Rieslings makes one 'cool', how cool am I for drinking hand-imported Mosel Riesling from Luxembourg??

d) Good piece....

Edited April 1, 2003 by tighe (log)

[Fat Guy]

a) Hasn't the "anything goes with wine/the only thing that matters is what you like" thing become so prevalent with populist wine commentators that it is nearly as cliched as the traditionalist line?

My reading of Mamster's piece is that he agrees, and that he goes further: his implication is that the populist portrayal of the traditionalist line is a straw man.

[awbrig]

his implication is that the populist portrayal of the traditionalist line is a straw man.

I read more Tin Man , but thats just me...

[tighe]

a) Hasn't the "anything goes with wine/the only thing that matters is what you like" thing become so prevalent with populist wine commentators that it is nearly as cliched as the traditionalist line?

My reading of Mamster's piece is that he agrees, and that he goes further: his implication is that the populist portrayal of the traditionalist line is a straw man.

Yes, a more careful reading makes that clear. My original comment wasn't aimed at the article in any case, more of a blunt, inelegant restatement of what is couched in Mamster's piece....

[mamster]

They make wine in Luxembourg? I thought they were packed in there like battery hens.

The litany of modern wine writer tics has become so cliche that it makes you long for someone stodgy and English to come along and try to reestablish the old order. I nominate Jeremy Northam.

[tighe]

They make wine in Luxembourg?  I thought they were packed in there like battery hens.

Nah, its more like country-club spacing. Only 450K people in 1K square miles (Rhode Island has over 1 mil in 1200 square miles). Grapes are grown on their side of the Moselle; bone dry rieslings and off-dry Auxerois. Very tasty stuff.