The Progressive Wine List

[Bux]

All wine lists are useless if you aren't expert because they do not adequately explain which wines to pair with which foods.

I understand your point, but exaggeration isn't helpful. One might just as well note that exaggerated claims are useless. Any information is useful as far as it goes. A second thought here is that it's the expert who wants the most information. There are any number of diners who will find that knowing whether the wine is red or white is all the information they can use. There are even those who don't care if it's red or white as long as it's below a certain price.

[Steve Plotnicki]

No I disagree with this. Last night I had dinner at Pacific Time in South Beach. Since everyone was having fish, we wanted white wine. They happen to have their list organized by region. So you have to know what varietals are in the bottles to make any sense out of it. But even if they broke their list down to "Bright and Zippy" for highly acidic wines, that wouldn't have been any help for choosing something to go with my Kumamoto Oysers with Asian Spices. How would someone with no knowledge at all figure out that the $39 bottle of 2001 Martin Codax Albarinho, the cheapest white wine on the list, was perfect?

For a wine list to be useful, it needs to give people the same information I would give them if I was at the table which is, if you are having the Salmon Roasted in a Tamarind Glaze, here are the 4-5 choices on our list that go with that dish. As far as I'm concerened, all other information is useless and you might as well ask the sommelier.

[tommy]

i see, as usual, this discussion will center around the types of places that have sommeliers to begin with. oh well. so much for the other 95% of restaurants.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Why do you say that? My post says that the wine list should be able to give you the same info a sommelier gives you. And if it doesn't, any change is useless and you might as well keep the list organized in a traditional way.

[Craig Camp]

i see, as usual, this discussion will center around the types of places that have sommeliers to begin with.  oh well.  so much for the other 95% of restaurants.

Isn't it resonable to assume if a restaurant is going to charge a 3 to 4 time mark-up that someone on the staff should have at least basic training in recommending the wines on the list with the dishes on their menu.

I mean selling Codax for $39! At that mark-up they should have Ms Immer there to help you.

[tommy]

Isn't it resonable to assume if a restaurant is going to  charge a 3 to 4 time mark-up that someone on the staff should have at least basic training in recommending the wines on the list with the dishes on their menu.

i think so. sounds like a good topic for another thread.

[mogsob]

How would someone with no knowledge at all figure out that the $39 bottle of 2001 Martin Codax Albarinho, the cheapest white wine on the list, was perfect?

Talk about an outrageous markup. I've bought that bottle for 7.99.

[mogsob]

1. I have more difficulty navigating a progressive wine list than a traditional regional list because the headings are not standard. I find myself bogged down in these lists, and often feel that some wines are mischaracterized by the list-maker. I have a good understanding of most major wine regions and can narrow down my choices on a traditional list a lot faster.

2. As Steve P correctly points out, a progressive list is no help whatsoever in deciding what to drink. The less you know, the more you need the sommelier. Indeed, when I was first learning about wine, I rarely consulted the list at all, putting myself entirely in the restaurant's hands. Now that I know more about what I like (and, more importantly, what my wife likes), I tend to look for good value wines that appeal to our tastes. Then I ask the sommelier's advice. Sometimes they agree with me and sometimes they steer me to a better bottle (and sometimes I ignore them altogether).

But the fact remains that a progressive list is confusing and ponderous at best, and misleading at worst.