Trio restaurant, Evanston

[chefg]

You know, I'm actually not that sure what it was made from--it was kind of ambiguous on the menu.

A mixture of dairy with different fat contents cooked sous-vide for about 19 hours at 200* F. The dairy caramelizes to resemble a savory evaporated or condensed milk.

[chefg]

If you asked me to decide what it is, I would say that Trio is French in the same way I would say that about The French Laundry. Even though I don't find the cuisines to be anything alike. It's more about the strategy of how ChefG builds the meal and the overall architecture of the dishes that makes me think that the root of the cuisine it is based on French technique. Though I could always be wrong. But what makes it interesting is that some of the concepts are applied to famously American ingredients and dishes. Or that techniques from other cuisines (shabu shabu for example) are thrown into the mix. In general I think diversity is a very American concept. But ultimately the way the meal is organized is what makes it feel French is .

I think Steve is on point. Is the food at Trio French? No. Through years of evolution, American chefs Americanizing French technique and thought processes it becomes hard to identify cuisines of many of the well known restaurants in this country. TFL is not a French restaurant either, maybe an "Americanized French Restaurant" What is Blue Hill, Charlie Trotter's, WD-50, Clio, and even Bouley? I don't think French, but certainly the cuisine of France has shaped the food at these places more than any other. It's easy to see the the way it drifts by looking at the lineage of Trio's food in comparison to the TFL. I spent alot of time there, much of what I was taught I still use today, but our cuisines are very different as Steve said. Cuisine is not constant, its molded by human individuality.

[Michael Laiskonis]

...but certainly the cuisine of France has shaped the food at these places more than any other. 

Is it conceivable that the very restaurants you mention, as well as others, are now, in return, in a position to influence what will happen in France?

[Chazzy]

chefg, if you're comfortable answering, is the course progression with two seperate "dessert" flights as Ryne described something that you are considering or plan to implement for all Tour de Force meals in the future?

[Fat Guy]

I don't think French, but certainly the cuisine of France has shaped the food at these places more than any other.

Perhaps the "cuisine of Europe" would be the applicable category. In "New American" cuisine, I certainly see a large Italian influence. Of course, the Spanish influence is today being felt everywhere that creative cuisine is being served. Middle Europe and even Russia have had their influences, both directly and indirectly. That's not to say the various non-Western cuisines aren't being felt as well, but for the most part that's the incorporation of an ingredient or technique here or there. The fundamentals are European.

[chefg]

chefg, if you're comfortable answering, is the course progression with two seperate "dessert" flights as Ryne described something that you are considering or plan to implement for all Tour de Force meals in the future?

Starting Thursday March 20th.

[Chazzy]

Thanks Chef, very interesting, and by the sound of it succesful as well. I agree with Ryne that this is a great way to really showcase all elements of a restaurant's cuisine fairly and properly, especially at a place like Trio where the desserts and main courses blur the sweet/savory line anyway. Also, does this also mean that the whole menu will be changing at the same time to what Ryne had or something similar?

[Robert Schonfeld]

...but certainly the cuisine of France has shaped the food at these places more than any other. 

Is it conceivable that the very restaurants you mention, as well as others, are now, in return, in a position to influence what will happen in France?

A good question. Traditionally, artistic influences have moved west to east, from Europe to America, but no the other way. Ironically, Europe's reluctance does not apply to popular culture (think blue jeans and pop music) as it does to "high" culture. It will be interesting, then, to see where the applied art of cuisine will fall in this spectrum.

[RyneSchraw]

Traditionally, artistic influences have moved west to east, from Europe to America, but no the other way. Ironically, Europe's reluctance does not apply to popular culture (think blue jeans and pop music) as it does to "high" culture. It will be interesting, then, to see where the applied art of cuisine will fall in this spectrum.

It's hard to imagine a place like Taillevent embracing these new techniques or global influences in their food, isn't it? There is definitely a lot of high-class tradition firmly rooted in Europe, that doesn't seem like it will step down anytime soon. And it doesn't have to...traditional French food has evolved into what it is over hundreds of years, because the techniques and principals work and the more importantly, the food tastes good. And though these same things are true about what is being done at places like Trio and TFL, it makes sense that just as American chefs want to form and start evolving their own style, that French chefs would like to continue on with evolving theirs. Which is why a lot of the new places seem to do really well in areas without a very strong history of high-end food, like California, Chicago or the Costa Brava in Spain-- they are actually creating the history in those places, as we speak. It's funny that you mention pop culture though, because it does seem that with music, movies and street fashion in general, that Europe and even Japan, for that matter (with their obsession of Ameican denim and sneakers), are strongly influnced by what is going on over here. Maybe this implies that the youth of these countries are looking ahead and are, in fact, much more concerned with what we are doing in America, rather than with the ages of tradition and history they have at home. If this is the case, will it then show up in high-end cuisine over there anytime soon? We'll just have to wait and see...

Edited March 16, 2003 by RyneSchraw (log)

[Jonathan Day]

It may be that Chef Achatz's "menu in two parts" with two dessert flights is actually very traditional.

Here is an Escoffier menu, which I posted in the "complexity or clutter in tasting menus" thread in Symposium:

• Frivolitiés
  Mixed hors d'oeuvres
  Caviar frais
  Chilled caviar
  Blinis de Sarrasin
  Buckwheat blinis
  Oursins de la Méditerranée
  Sea urchins
  Consommé aux nids d'Hirondelles
  Consommé with swallows' nests
  Velouté Dame Blanche
  Cream soup of the "White Lady"
  Sterlet du Volga à la Moscovite
  Sterlet is a rare sturgeon that lives between the fresh and salt rivers in the Caspian
  Barquette de Laitance à la Vénetienne
  Soft fish roes in pastry boats
  Chapon fin aux Perles du Périgord
  Capon with "pearls of the Périgord" (truffles?)
  Cardon épineux à la Toulousaine
  "Spiny" cardoons
  Selle de Chevreuil aux Cerises
  Saddle of venison with cherries
  Suprême d'Ecrevisse au Champagne
  Crayfish in a cream sauce with Champagne
  Mandarines Givrées
  Sorbet of mandarin oranges, probably served in the hollowed-out shells of the oranges
  Terrine de Caille sous la cendre, aux Raisins
  Terrine of quail cooked on a wood fire ("under the ashes") with grapes
  Bécassine rosée au feu de Sarment
  Pink or pale snipe, cooked over vine cuttings
  Salade Isabelle
  Salad "Isabelle"
  Asperges sauce Mousseline
  Asparagus with mousseline sauce
  Délice de Foie Gras
  A foie gras preparation
  Soufflé de Grenade à l'Orientale
  Pomegranate soufflé "oriental style"
  Biscuit glace aux Violettes
  Iced cake with violets
  Mignardises
  Petits fours
  Fruits de Serre Chaude
  Hothouse fruits
  

[estufarian]

Would you describe the menu you had as French? Or influenced by French style? To me it reads far more "global" than "French".

I think we're too hung up on labels.

Of course Trio shows an evolution from 'classic' technique (usually referred to as French). But so did the 'cuisine minceur' so fashionable 20+ years ago but virtually ignored today (and still going strong at Eugenie-les-Bains). And then we had pacific rim and fusion. I'm sure we can all recall both good and bad in these categories. The use of fresh, preferably local, ingredients is what was done for generations all over the world - without refrigeration there was no choice. Alice Waters didn't 'discover' this, although her influence should never be underestimated. And if a chef chooses to use 'single cow butter' (or equivalent), is that an innovation, a return to home(farm) cooking or pretentious?

No matter what we call it, it's what's on the plate (and in the sensory orifices) that matters. Technology (and inspiration) have added new possibilities. RyneSchraw's notes (in particular) clearly describe the food and style. Let's not overanalyze - just enjoy.

What we have here is a talented chef with a passion. Is this the 'next level'? Does it matter? Let's just enjoy it - what more could a chef ask for? And on that subject, when I tried to reserve recently for the Kitchen Table, and mentioned this forum (OK I only mentioned it after finding out that the table was already booked so I was desperate for an edge as I'm only in Chicago for a couple of days), I was told that I was only the second person to 'identify' themselves as having read this forum - presumably RyneSchraw was the first. And this is a return trip for me. Where are all you other readers who are going to try Trio? And I immediately apologise to all of you who have reserved anonymously.

[Jonathan Day]

Estufarian, I don't think anyone here is hung up on labels -- there are other places on the board where esoteric debates have gone on about the pan-galactic superiority of French cuisine, but not here.

My interest in in understanding the experiences and traditions that led up to Trio becoming what it is, and to Chef Achatz evolving his own style of cooking. It didn't appear out of thin air. If you haven't seen it, there is an interview on the webzine -- click here.

This attempt to understand doesn't need to lead into an attempt to pigeonhole, nor should it interfere with our enjoyment of Trio and its cuisine. I am certainly going to try Trio, but it's a long journey from here (6363 km as the crow flies) and will require a bit of advance planning.

[Chazzy]

It may be that Chef Achatz's "menu in two parts" with two dessert flights is actually very traditional.

Jonathan I don't doubt this, but where do you see two dessert flights in the menu you posted? I'm probably just reading poorly today, but I don't see it.

[jackal10]

I think the comparison with Escoffier is not entirely fair.

Remember he was at a time just about at the changeover from traditional buffet style service in "removes" to our modern "service a la russe". The dishes would have been alternatives at each course, although they may have been placed on the table at the same time Traditionally small and large course alternated

The traditional menu was:

1. Amuse (or frivolities or hor-d'ouvres)

2. Caviar with blinis, or oysters or clams or melon

3. Soup, choice of thick or thin

4. Salad or small dishes, like olives or nuts or amuse

----------------------------------------

5. Fish course

6. Sweetbreads or mushrooms or truffles or pasta or the like

7. Artichokes or asparagus or something in pastry

8. Roast meat

9. Sorbet or palate cleanser

10. Game

--------------------------------------

11. Pudding or cream based sweet

12. Frozen sweet, biscuits

13 A savoury

----------------------------------------

14 Cheeses

15 Fruits and petit-four

16 Coffee liquers etc

The dotted lines correspond roughly with the old "removes". Often (at least in my college) the desert (courses 14 15 and 16) are served in a different room, or else the table is "turned", so people sit next to different people.

Of course each course comes with its own cutlery, and there should never be the cutlery for more than three courses on the table at the same time.

[chefg]

The entire Trio menu will change this coming week (friday) to an early spring menu. We have talked as a group about the thoughts brought up during the Q&A, and have made some commintments to the dessert sequencing philosophy. It will be only be used in the TDF menu as I feel the length of the menu dictates the need for this formate. Some intersting ideas have been brought forth ..largely in part to the thought provoking questions and discussions on egullet.Some of the things we are excited to bring to life:

Lamb shabu shabu style - dried figs, fennel, niciose olives, licorice aroma.

(using the technique applied in the lobster rosemary vapor and the scallop orange rind vapor but making the aroma more complex by adding elements of molassas, star anise, licorice root, vanilla, and juniper to produce a black licorice aroma that we feel will compliment especailly to the nicoise olives.

Caramelized dairy , grapefruit, puffed lobster- with sweet spices.

White pekin duck, poached breast, crispy skin, rhubarb, and lavender losange. The use of a intense lavender losange eaten before the course arrives to coat the palatte with the herb , there by flavoring the dish while it is eaten.

Roasted foie gras - dandelion greens and jelly, honey, strawberries

English pea soup presented differently - eucalyptus sorbet, meyer lemon, pepino melon

Textures of Manchego

of course there are more but I am excited about these in particular.

[Steve Plotnicki]

I think we're too hung up on labels.

Of course we are. There isn't any other way to communicate to people what it is they are going to experience. So we are stuck with labels. Unfortunately, quite often creativity is way ahead of how we label things. So Trio is labeled "French" even though that isn't a perfect fit. Yet somehow it manages to be accurate.

[chefg]

It didn't appear out of thin air.

If you were to dine at Trio the first six months I was there you would have linked the cuisine to the TFL very quickly. After spending over four years at the French Laundry the thought processes of Thomas were becoming my own. As I said before, we all tried to "be the man", after all, it is what he wanted. As I began to think differently I realized I needed to move on, my curious personality was apparent, which led Chef to pursue a stage at el Bulli for me. As fate would have it, the experience in Spain proved to reshape my outlook on cuisine. It went beyond the way I had been thinking and executing food to that point. It tapped into a side of my personality that had been apparent all along, just never explored. Existing was place that encouraged creativity with almost no ceiling. I saw a chef that knew no boundries, and I was inspired. More than learning technique in the short amount of time I was at el Bulli, I became to understand that it was ok to experiment, to challenge, and to express the way I processed food.

As it turned out I was fortunate to have mentored under one of the greatest chefs of our time. Chef Keller generously gave to me all any young cook could ask for. A display of passion, ethic, art, creativity, technique and openness that is the single most persuasive element in my being, as a chef today. Through him I learned how to cook, how to create, how to manage, how to work, and how to think. He even gave me the opportunity to see the next most important aspect of my development, the acceptance of expression.

Apon experiencing el Bulli I knew I found myself in it's food. All of a sudden it was ok to dissolve the boundries that I had grown up with. My cuisine could be exactly what I wanted it to be. The only rule that existed was the same satisfaction that had been apart of my up-bringing from the begining.

As I began to develop my style at Trio in the early stages I found it hard to break from the TFL thought processes. I knew that if I wanted to express my own style I would need to deliberatly avoid the stylistic personality that I had adopted over the last four years. The commitment was made and the evolution began. I feel once we took that initial pledge our world changed. The early days of Trio under my leadership could be linked to my lineage very easily. But as we became more comfortable with who we were, and what we had to say food -wise, the cuisine became unique, innovative, and exciting. From that point it was our indentity to be different, to be avant-garde. We rarely have to stop ourselves and say "that isn't new enough" or "that isn't what we do", we do not process food in that way anymore. Most of the ideas and thoughts about food originate from a forward thinking mind, so all of the dated material is hardly brought forth. Of course we examine and respect the past to see if we can use it in our cuisine.

Each time we make changes to the menu I feel we evolve greatly. The next change scheduled for this week is especially exciting, as I feel we have developed new, and explored existing techniques that will allow us to take steps forward in cuisine, at least in our identity. We have not reached our peak at Trio. I feel we are still very much on a path that will lead us on a long journey.

Michael Rhulman did a great job of showing us how a chef's personality dictates their cooking style in the book SOUL OF A CHEF. He analyzes three chefs and paralelles their personality to their respective cuisine. At Trio, and most restaurants in the world, this is not only true of the chef, but the staff itself. Sure, Steve Vai is a great guitarist, and Jordan is an awesome ball player, but they alone do not make the music or win the games. Trio's food is the identity of all nine of us, combined into one. The food is king, and despite our differences, our language is the food... for all of us. This is a huge factor is the personality of the food at Trio. And beyond me, and the staff of Trio, and all others who practice it, is the movement itself. Like a religion, it goes beyond the devoted, and becomes an identity of its own.

[Fat Guy]

It's fascinating to me how Adria has become the near-universal culinary metaphor for creativity, expression, and innovation. He must be a truly remarkable man, quite aside from his talent. It's odd, though, that people are so willing to ascribe "Frenchness" to any fine-dining restaurant, but nobody ever says anything like, "Trio is a Spanish restaurant."

[Jonathan Day]

Chazzy, what I was getting at was the idea of the rhythm of two (or more) "dinners" at one seating -- particularly in the first progression from frivolités to the mandarine sorbet. My sense from reading Escoffier is that this was a bit more than a palate cleanser but that it actually represented a serious break in the proceedings, a transition from one progression to another.

Just reading RyneSchraw's outline of the Kitchen Table menu, my sense was that the menu was somehow divided into two parts or sessions, in the same way. But I may have missed the Trio team's intent here.

[Jonathan Day]

It's fascinating to me how Adria has become the near-universal culinary metaphor for creativity, expression, and innovation. He must be a truly remarkable man, quite aside from his talent. It's odd, though, that people are so willing to ascribe "Frenchness" to any fine-dining restaurant, but nobody ever says anything like, "Trio is a Spanish restaurant."

I have not yet dined at el Bulli, though I will in a few weeks' time. I have looked at the amazing book and CD-ROM describing Adria's work from 1998-2002. What you get from that is a sense of a restless intelligence, relentlessly pushing from one idea to the next, but cataloguing progress as it goes, capturing recipes and photographs of the food.

The cuisine itself doesn't look particularly French, and in fact it is described in terms closer to a Spanish menu -- and, of course, entirely in Spanish.

I will agree that, up to now, the French seem to have invested more energy in classifying and categorising and recording dishes and menus and techniques than many nations (though this assertion may prove false when harder-to-read languages are brought into the picture, e.g. Chinese and Japanese). I personally think that this has more to do with the French mania for classifying things than with anything about their cuisine.

It's also the case that, in some social classes at least, "Frenchness" seems to be associated with luxury, elaboration and excess. And hence the view that "French cuisine" represents some sort of apogee, and that, conversely, anything that's done with the kind of care that goes into Trio's work has got to be French.

You see the same association in France, by the way: "American cuisine" is instantly associated with McDonald's, etc. There's a funny film, "Cuisine Americaine" about a ambitious young American chef who goes to France and tries to win the patronage of an elderly French chef. Of course he ends up earning culinary stars, plus the chef's beautiful daughter...happy ending. But the conceit is that "cuisine Americaine" is by definition terrible.

[chefg]

It's odd, though, that people are so willing to ascribe "Frenchness" to any fine-dining restaurant, but nobody ever says anything like, "Trio is a Spanish restaurant."

Can a personality define regionalism? Where is Plotnicki on this one? The creativeness of high end restaurants in Spain cannot dictate a label for cuisine type. I feel it is based on ingredients indigeous to the region, dishes that embody the country...paella, beouf de bourgonne ect... and in some cases menu formate, not a way of thinking creatively. Until a term is concieved to define the forward thinking movement, chefs and restaurants will struggle with how to describe their cuisine, grasping to familar terms that their patrons can indentify with. Just like fusion, contemporary, eclectic, continental, and so on. If you look at el Bulli's menu it clearly states a portion of the menu into"snacks" and then "tapas" which of course is very Spainish. It is also a very regional restaurant utilizing products from the immediate area. So it is, after all, a very modern Spainish restaurant. Trio does not use the term tapas or necessarily prescribe to the thought of a portion of the menu being in the tapas formate, and we use ingredients indigenous to places outside the midwest. Techniques are a mixture of all, some old, some new, but I find it hard to call Trio a Spainish or even a "Spainish style" restaurant because we use techniques developed in Spain. The word is still missing. I would liken the menu formate more to the menu Jonathan posted, except longer, but the outline seems to be similar, which was a surprize to me honestly.

Per this discussion we have changed the cuisine type on our website, or it will be shortly, depending on when you read this, to avant-garde. Is it a more acturate description of the food served at Trio? I think so. But the problem now lies in people reading that, and asking themselves..."what the hell is avant-garde food?" If we say modern french with global influences people at least get a picture in their head, it may be wrong, but at least they can visualize something. This is a problem for us, one which Plotnicki brought up a few weeks ago. Until the movement becomes more popular and a term or phrase is coined it will be hard to describe our food. Let's not limit it to one country, it can't be. Isn't it ok to just use AG? (avant-garde)

[Fat Guy]

Needless to say, avant-garde is a French term. It might be more fitting to use an English term, like innovative, leading edge, pioneering, experimental, progressive, cutting edge, unconventional, or something along those lines. But ultimately it leaves unanswered the question: the avant-garde of what? Certainly, the brains behind Trio are not in the avant-garde of Indian cuisine. They're in the avant-garde of a culinary subculture, which does not appear to be French. It is probably more Spanish than French, if we are to look to form. It is likely more American than French if we look to ingredients. Specific dishes show strong Asian influences. Any way you slice it, I think it makes sense to say it ain't French. Likewise, I think that if something can't be categorized, then that imperviousness to categorization should be the selling proposition: We are Trio. Our cuisine cannot be categorized. It's not French. It's not like anything you've had before. Be there or be square.

[Fat Guy]

Can a personality define regionalism?

Maybe the first question to ask is: "Can a region define a personality?" If so, it's probably the case that personality can define regionalism. Is Adria sui generis? Or is he a product of the restless inventiveness and striving that has gripped Spain in the past couple of decades, as it has modernized at breakneck speed? I tend to think the latter: I have no doubt he is a unique and brilliant individual, but I see him as a product of a regional culture. On the one hand, I can't see an Adria emerging in France. Gagnaire, for all his brilliance, is a different phenomenon. On the other hand, I'm ashamed that no Adria emerged first in the United States, because I think the Adria personality is clearly compatible with the American spirit. But I suppose at the fine-dining level we were too firmly in the grips of French culinary tradition for it to happen, and we were also limited by the palates of American consumers. Trio is likely to be, as an academic matter, a pivotal restaurant in United States culinary history. Thus, how it defines itself is particularly important. It may be a unique opportunity to say that France is the past, and something else is the future.

[RyneSchraw]

Isn't it ok to just use AG? (avant-garde)

I think avant-garde is as accurate as it's gonna get. It also emphasizes what is most important in the kitchen at Trio---not that it has a French foundation or even global influences, but that it is completely devoted to forward thinking. Sure it does not actually describe the food, at least not enough to the point where someone who knows nothing about it could even begin to picture a dish, but it does give a good idea of what the mindset behind the food is. And in the end, this is probably a better thing to do than set them off-course by describing it as French...besides, the menu is printed on the site so that should help anyone who still feels somewhat lost.

Can a personality define regionalism?

Is Adria sui generis? Or is he a product of the restless inventiveness and striving that has gripped Spain in the past couple of decades, as it has modernized at breakneck speed? I tend to think the latter: I have no doubt he is a unique and brilliant individual, but I see him as a product of a regional culture. On the one hand, I can't see an Adria emerging in France. Gagnaire, for all his brilliance, is a different phenomenon. On the other hand, I'm ashamed that no Adria emerged first in the United States, because I think the Adria personality is clearly compatible with the American spirit. But I suppose at the fine-dining level we were too firmly in the grips of French culinary tradition for it to happen, and we were also limited by the palates of American consumers. Trio is likely to be, as an academic matter, a pivotal restaurant in United States culinary history. Thus, how it defines itself is particularly important. It may be a unique opportunity to say that France is the past, and something else is the future.

Hmm...I've never eaten any of Adrià's food, so can't say if he's a genius or not. Can any artist really be called a definite genius, to the point where everyone will agree, when all of the arts deal so much with taste? I can see a lot of people, the traditionalists, calling these guys heretics instead. It's definitely a matter of opinion. On the other hand, I'll certainly agree that he is a product of his environment, just as much as Mozart was a product of Austria in the late 18th century, but that shouldn't make him any less of a genius if you felt he was one in the first place. Everyone needs some initial force to push them into doing what they end up doing, and being surrounded by a lot of creativity certainly helps.

But as much as this particular movement is taking place and being nurtured in a few select locations (Spain a big one right now), it really doesn't seem to have any boundaries. To say it's over for the French chefs, as Adrià famously did after getting his third star, might be a bit inaccurate. The days of traditional French cooking being in the spotlight may be almost through, sure, but thats not to say a place as avant-garde as Trio or el Bulli won't open in France in a few years, or Japan, or Italy for that matter. I think it will be interesting to see how far and fast this spreads, with the leaders of the pack continuing to define, evolve, and popularize the movement as they have been doing for the last couple of years.

Edited March 19, 2003 by RyneSchraw (log)

[Jonathan Day]

As I understand it from Michael Ruhlman's book, The French Laundry, which was a restaurant before Thomas Keller acquired it, took its name from the fact that the building was once, literally, a French laundry. This was "French" in the sense of "French polishing", not that the laundry work was done by French workers or using French techniques. It was part of the general association of France with luxury and a certain type of quality.

Thomas Keller, of course, spent real time in France and also trained with a couple of French chefs in the US (Roland Henin? I don't recall the other names). And it looks as though a lot of French techniques and styles, e.g. heavy use of veal stock, liberal use of butter, refined, reduced, strained sauces, etc. are still used at the French Laundry.

As, I am sure, they are at Trio. But I have the impression that French methods and styles are not as dominant at Trio as they are at TFL -- they take their place amongst other techniques and styles.

Somewhere in the Q&A, Chef Achatz talks about moving away from the brigade as an organising principle for the kitchen. It would be interesting to learn more about this.