Genoa Salami pH level not right.

[Glen]

Looking to learn and ask questions about home curing meats.  I have an 11 lb batch of genoa salami going and it is my first batch.  Worried about the PH level not dropping as needed.  Need some advice.   I followed the Marianski recipe exactly.  I have a pH meter and the starting point was 6.15pH which I thought was unusually high.  2.5 months in, I am about 73% of starting weight yet my pH is only 5.88pH.  My curing chamber is consistently at 57deg. F. /80% humidity.  My pH tester seems calibrated properly using the calibration solutions.  I am using the meat probe adapter and just sticking it in the salami until the tip is submerged etc...Thanks in advance for any suggestions or reassurances. 

 

Glen

[Glen]

On page 125 of "The Art of Making Fermented Sausages" it reads...."Remember, however, that slow-fermented sausages are made with a little sugar so the pH usually remains at pH 5.8 or higher.  Ensuing removal of moisture guarantees security."  

 

I would be so appreciative of any feedback on this.  I am new to this site and not sure how to engage folks with experience on this topic.  Much thanks.

[gfweb]

We have some curing pros here. They'll weigh in soon I hope

[Chris Hennes]

I haven't made that particular recipe, but I think that pH sounds like it's on target, I don't think there's much to be concerned about there. I've found Marianski's recipes reliable in the past, and the pH is dropping, so it's not like your bacteria have died. I think you're on track.

[Glen]

Phew!  Just the reassurance I was looking for.  Thank you!

[jmolinari]

What starter culture did you use, what temperature did you ferment at, and what % of dextrose/sugar did you put in your grind?

these will all be variables in your pH

 

[Glen]

Thanks for the question. I used this recipe with extreme accuracy. 

[Glen]

I did a taste test tonight. 69% of original weight. Looks, smells and tastes great. Little over 3 months of drying. 

[Glen]

Just a quick follow up for some feedback if anyone is willing.  The texture is a bit soft.  The taste is great but I was hoping for a bit firmer texture.  Does some additional drying time help here?  I am around 70% or original weight.  Would 65% make the difference?  

 

Thanks,

Glen

[jmolinari]

Your fat % looks pretty high and there seems to be a bit of smearing. That will make it feel softer. Additional drying is unlikely to help. 

[Glen]

Thanks. I will look for a recipe with less fat next time I guess. 

[Chris Hennes]

I'm not sure exactly what @jmolinari meant, but I suspect literally that your fat percent looks high, not in the recipe, but in the photograph. 20% fat is really not that much, and your photo seems to show quite a bit more. How well trimmed was your meat?

[jmolinari]

Correct. The picture seems to be much more than 20%. Then again some of it could be from the beef chuck

[Glen]

Thanks so much for the assistance.  I am sure I followed the recipe exactly.  I used high end heritage Berkshire pork and back fat and Piedmontese chuck.  I agree, the photo and the product look like much more than 20%.  I checked the total weight at the end to ensure I had the right total at almost exactly 5kg.  The grind looked great.  Same as I use for fresh sausages and the texture is always how I like it.  I have never run back fat through it however.  I do recall that it might have looked more like lard than a grind and it was a frozen too.  I used the 3/8 plate for the fat and pork and the 1/8 plate for the chuck. The beef chuck was not overly fat either.  It does taste really good so it wont go to waste!  Again, thanks guys.  Really glad I found this forum and I appreciate the help and advice.

 

 

 

[Glen]

Edited January 8, 2019 by Glen (log)

[Glen]

 

 

[Baron d'Apcher]

Natural casings might help firm up the product as it will shrink.  Craft Butcher's Pantry is a reliable source for natural casings of all sorts, shapes and sizes.

 

[Glen]

Just a little update for anyone that might be interested. Seems like an additional 2 months at the recommended storage temp of 55 deg. And 75% humidity has my weight down to 66%. Still a bit fatty (mix and grind issues) but the texture has really firmed up and it is a really enjoyable product. Thanks again for this forum and assistance. I’ll keep at it. 

Edited February 20, 2019 by Glen (log)

[rotuts]

Ive missed a few things over the years :

 

growing my own Espalier [ ancient ] French Pears     these only fruit eery other year , and are small  but to die for

 

and making Sausage :  both fresh , like Weisswurst , British Bangers, and so many more

 

and of course , dried cured sausage , as above , 

 

congratulations !

 

 

[Mark LaPolla]

Good job, Glen.

 

I have three questions on this topic:

 

1. I was just reading the Olympia Provisions book and they recommend starting your salami at 73F for 84 hours until it gets to a pH of 4.8. Other articles I have read recommend starting the cure at 80F for 12 hours, specifically Ruhlman, and use a pH of 4.9 as their target. I have read other articles where they say 5.0 to 5.3 is a fine target. Just about everyone says that if you don't hit their target, throw it out. I just made a high fat salami with chunks of fat in it, the fat coming from a Mangalitsa and the leaner meats from a Tamworth Large Black  cross. So the salami is soft because it has such a high fat content.  I used Prague #2 and Bactoferm F-RM-52, which contains two strains. The lactobacillus sakei is effective at 30C or 86F and the Staphylococcus carnosus is effective at the same temperature range. I understood that Staphylococcus carnosus was supposed to be effective at much lower temperatures. Is that true? What starter culture is effective at 60F? My salami tastes great and I have eaten quite a bit of it and have not had any ill effects. What exactly is the time, temperature and target pH for such salami? Also, I have just created salami nocciola, from a Yorkshire loin roast, plus coppa and shoulder, which I stuffed into a beef middle. I use Prague #2, of course, and Bactoferm F-RM-52. I also use liberal amounts of wine, which lowers the pH immediately and usually double the amount of dextrose. In this case, I used 1.5X the amount of dextrose but probably should have used more because the pH still in the mid 5s. It takes weeks to lower the pH. The Olympia Provisions books would tell me to throw the salami out. Of course OP uses Bactoferm LHP. I was thinking of using a combination of LHP and F-RM-52. Is that advisable? 

 

2. I used the Bactoferm Mold 600 and on my whole muscle chopped salami stuffed into a beef bung, the mold has taken off. However, not so on my salami nocciola. I used distilled water and several applications of the mold in high concentration, even soaking the mold in the beef middle casing. What gives? My drying room is at 60F and around 65 percent humidity. The beef bung and the beef middle are hanging next to each other.

 

3. I have a Milwaukee pH meter with the meat probe. This probe does not seem to be a very good one. I calibrate before using the probe each time. Is there a slimmer needle I can use. I do not always tie off my dry sausages into smaller salami but use the full length of the beef middle etc. and this makes testing the pH more difficult. (One solution is to do what I do for my fresh sausage and section them off into smaller links.) Thanks.

 

Thanks you so much,

 

Mark.

 

Edited February 16, 2020 by Mark LaPolla (log)

[Joe Wood]

On 12/19/2018 at 8:15 AM, Glen said:

On page 125 of "The Art of Making Fermented Sausages" it reads...."Remember, however, that slow-fermented sausages are made with a little sugar so the pH usually remains at pH 5.8 or higher.  Ensuing removal of moisture guarantees security."  

 

I would be so appreciative of any feedback on this.  I am new to this site and not sure how to engage folks with experience on this topic.  Much thanks.

Glen I cannot help you with the PH thing... I'm brand new at this too... But I'd like to compliment you on the mold accumulation. Looks like man made casings? 

 

On 2/14/2019 at 12:55 PM, Glen said:

Just a little update for anyone that might be interested. Seems like an additional 2 months at the recommended storage temp of 55 deg. And 75% humidity has my weight down to 66%. Still a bit fatty (mix and grind issues) but the texture has really firmed up and it is a really enjoyable product. Thanks again for this forum and assistance. I’ll keep at it. 

 

 

[Joe Wood]

Me again, Joe Wood... Product looks great and tasty... I hope to reach that level myself... Being brand new at this I'm quite excited... Can you tell me what spices   you used? Did you use any Mold600?