Upselling

Fat Guy · January 19, 2003

Let me offer this as a basic working definition of upselling: A server in a restaurant engages in upselling whenever he or she builds the check beyond what the customer would have ordered without outside influence.

Most server-customer transactions involve some form of upselling, even if it's just an offer of dessert wine.

How do you feel about upselling? What distinguishes good upselling (if you acknowledge such a thing) from bad?

glenn · January 19, 2003

If the server is enthusiastic and shows knowledge about what he is upselling. it gets me excited and interested. However, I detest upselling for the sake of it, whether it be to comply with restaurant policy or to increase sales and the resulting tip. The most flagrant example of the latter is when you're asked if you want sparkling or mineral water.

Steve Plotnicki · January 19, 2003

Is it upselling if the server's suggestions will improve the diner's meal?

Lord Michael Lewis · January 19, 2003

How do you feel about upselling? What distinguishes good upselling (if you acknowledge such a thing) from bad?

And what distinguishes 'Upselling' from 'Selling'?

Gavin Jones · January 19, 2003

I'm happy if somebody has noticed my choices and makes suggestions to enhance them.

Examples of this include suggesting a wine (with reasons) at a comparable price point to the one I might have indicated (How about X? Oh with the dishes you are ordering Y will match much better as is less tannic, say).

Or when asked about their views being positive about something (I tasted some of X today - it was fantastic).

The worst sort (prevalent in poor upscale restaurants in the UK certainly) is open disdain for the customers choices.

Often water is a bad culprit:

Can I have a jug of water, please?

Still or sparkling?

Just a jug, from the tap please?

Are you sure? (and I've heard - "I wouldn't dream of drinking the tap water").

Yes. (trying to avoid swearing - I live in London the standard of tap water is pretty reliable and it tastes better than many bottled waters with a lot less systematic risk. Badoit on the list maybe I'll switch, but that will be my decision thankyou).

Next up Sommeliers: maybe I need a lesson from Steve P., but so often one has:

I'm thinking of X (indicating style & price point)

How about Y (different style 30% more expensive).

How will that work with dish Z? (Sommelier appears unaware of what choices of dish we have made).

Of course lots of it is in the consequences: If somebody upsells me something & it is great, I'm happy.

If it's not great I blame the person who 'sold' it, rather than myself for choosing it.

This is one area where really good restaurants at whatever level deliver. They're interested in finding out about you & what you enjoy & helping enhance that experience. This can happen from your local takeaway to top of the range places.

Edited January 19, 2003 by Gavin Jones (log)

macrosan · January 19, 2003

As with all selling anywhere, the salesperson needs first to understand his own product, and then needs to get (very quickly) to understand what his customer needs. A salesperson who can do that will rarely annoy a customer by being pushy, and a salesperson who can't shouldn't try.

I rarely encounter upselling in the UK, except when restaurants (particularly Chinese, for some reason) try to sell you another drink the instant your glass is empty. But I can't remember ever having additional or higher price dishes pushed at me. I think I would instinctively react against any server trying to do that who didn't know what I liked or generally ordered. And in any circumstance where I thought I was being persuaded simply to spend more money, I would probably actually complain at the time, and would be unlikely to return to the restaurant.

nightscotsman · January 19, 2003

"You want fries with that?"

Basically almost every business in America up-sells/cross-sells. Amazon does a pretty good job of it with their recommendations, "people-who-bought-this-also-bought-that", and "Listmania" features, among other tactics. The common business wisdom is that if you aren't cross-selling then you're leaving money on the table. Restaurants are businesses, so why should they be different? I agree with many of the above posters saying "as long as they seem like they're trying to be helpful and improve my experience, I'm not offended". Although I remember an article somewhere exposing a training program put together by Coca-Cola to get Olive Garden waiters to discourage people from drinking water in favor of large amounts of soft drinks. The tactics seems kind of underhanded and deceptive.

Rail Paul · January 20, 2003

The trend toward on-the-menu wine recommendations for each entree is a form of upselling. If this provides an informed suggestion (perhaps in lieu of a somolier), I think the concept offers a lot of value.

especially if there are 2-3 suggestions for each entree, or a generic cue ("goes well with a fruity red wine" keyed to the list of wines). Described that way, do you want the $30 or the $50 choice? You may notice the $19 gem, but that's not likely.

Dell computers has perfected upselling, often without additional charge. On my last two orders, they've upgraded me on speakers or video cards. I'm assuming the goods were already on the dock, and my order was close enough to match and ship. Dell doesn't record sales revenue until the goods leave the loading dock (unlike a few of their competitors).

Bux · January 20, 2003

What distinguishes good upselling (if you acknowledge such a thing) from bad?

Is it upselling if the server's suggestions will improve the diner's meal?

Bingo. Good upselling is when it's done to insure you get a better meal with the aim of making you a regular customer. Bad upselling is when the aim is one shot at your wallet. Good upselling isn't thought of as upselling the next day.

Fat Guy · January 20, 2003

Is it upselling if the server's suggestions will improve the diner's meal?

Can you think of a reason why it woudn't be?

Fat Guy · January 20, 2003

And what distinguishes 'Upselling' from 'Selling'?

Upselling is a subset of selling. It's a situation where a sale is already locked in, but you're trying to get the customer to spend more. Selling is when you go into a Toyota dealership and the salesman tries to convince you to buy a Toyota. Upselling is when you go into a Toyota dealership and say you want a RAV4, and the salesman tries to sell you a Land Cruiser. I also consider add-on sales (extended warranty, alarm, etc.) to be a kind of upselling.

Here's a good overview:

http://aaaentrepreneurship.inabliss.com/upselling.htm

(Choice quote: "It is one thing to get the sale. It is far better to super-size that sale.")

My position on all this is that I have absolutely no problem with a server offering me anything. Once.

More aggressive sales pitches had better be right on target and brilliantly executed or they're going to alienate the heck out of me.

Steve Plotnicki · January 20, 2003

Yes but the inference from the way the word sounds is as if the seller is trying to get the buyer to buy something he doesn't need or knows that he wants. I don't believe that accurately describes what the sommelier is doing when he recommends a glass of $25 sauternes to go with my Foie gras if the pairing is indeed perfect. On the other hand, if he suggests the $25 sauternes instead of a $15 glass that goes just as well, just so the restaurant can make an extra $10, then that would be "upselling" to me.

Jaymes · January 20, 2003

My son has been in the hotel business for about ten years. For a portion of those years, he worked the front desk at a large, well-known luxury hotel. The front desk clerks had pretty-much carte blanche as far as upselling went. If the hotel was not full, they were strongly encouraged to say:

"I can upgrade you to lakeview for an additional $30, if you'd like. We do have a very few lakeview accommodations left, and they would normally reserve for an additional $75. Would you prefer lakeview for only an additional $30?"

Guest: "Regularly $75 more for only $30? Yes, a lakeview would be nice."

Front desk guy: "Well, now I see that we had a last-minute cancellation for our deluxe lakeview suite. That would only be an additional $30 more than the regular lakeview."

The kicker is that the front desk staff got 25% of any "upsell" charges.

But also, my son said, people were usually pretty happy with the nicer room, and always seemed pleased to be offered it, even if they didn't accept.

Upselling is just a part of retail life. I don't mind it. Unless it's done in a pushy, agressive, or sneaky manner. Like buying tires and then getting home and discovering you've bought "insurance" at an additional $6 per tire, which no one explained to you, but added on anyway.

Fat Guy · January 20, 2003

Plotnicki: You're just distinguishing between upselling you approve of and upselling you don't approve of. It's still upselling either way.

Steve Plotnicki · January 20, 2003

No I'm not. I'm distinguishing between a product that I will be happy with and one I won't be happy with. In your definition, it assumes that I am a knowledgable buyer to begin with. Most people aren't. Most people are ignorant (see Blue Hill thread.)

If you want to see naked upselling, visit your local real estate broker and tell them you want to spend $X on a house or apartment. I gurantee you that when you go out to look at properties, half the of the ones on the list will be at significantly higher prices then the one you specified.

Fat Guy · January 20, 2003

Show me where my definition assumes knowledge, or how that's relevant to the discussion at all. How does upselling magically not become upselling just because the recommendation is a good one? Again, all you're doing is distinguishing between upselling attempts you endorse and those you don't. Upselling is upselling. If you want to create subcategories of good upselling and bad upselling and "naked" upselling, fine. But the term itself simply refers to an action without an attached value-judgment.

Steve Plotnicki · January 20, 2003

No, upselling is a specific tactic employed by a salesperson to move a customer to a higher price point, or to buy a larger quantity, irrespective of what the customer might need or want. Directing a customer to the right product that fits their needs isn't upselling. That's just being a good salesperson. If you owned a CD shop and you ordered 10 copies of the new Springsteen CD and I as a good saleman new you needed 20 to last through the weekend, so I recommended that to you, that wouldn't be upselling. But if my motivation was my commision and/or management was pressuring me to move goods and I was being less then candid with you about it, now that would be upselling.

Jaymes · January 20, 2003

Upselling is a retail/marketing term that is defined as (just exactly as Fat Guy says) the offering of a higher-priced product, either through quality or quantity.

It has nothing to do with whether or not the salesperson "knows" how many CDs or any other product the purchaser "needs" or what the particular "value" is to the purchaser of that product.

Motivation is a different matter. One can have the best or the worst motives to "upsell."

By saying that a salesperson has some kind of psychic power to know whether or not I want, or need, an oceanview room for an additional $30, you are taking the right of decision away from me, and placing it with the salesperson.

Let's put me back at that hotel. I've booked a regular room. I'm checking in. Do I NEED an oceanview room? Who's going to decide that? Should the desk clerk not offer me the more expensive room because HE OR SHE decided I didn't "need" it, or that it wasn't really "worth" the $30? Or that I couldn't afford it? Or not tell me that there was a special promotional rate where I could stay two additional nights for the price of one because they knew I shouldn't take it and should get right back to the office?

Perhaps the clerk is (as you say) only offering me the $30 upgrade (upsell) because he is told to by his supervisors, and also he makes $15 bucks on the deal. Maybe the oceanview room is actually smaller than the regular room, and to the clerk, the difference would not be "worth it." But maybe I originally wanted the oceanview and was told it was an additional $75 per night and I am absolutely delighted to discover I can now get it for less than half that. So, I am now thrilled to be "upsold." It's not a negative for me at all.

They offer. They explain the 'features and benefits.' It's more expensive. That's upselling.

I decide. Period.

Motivation on the part of the salesperson simply doesn't enter into the definition of the word.

Edited January 20, 2003 by Jaymes (log)

jaybee · January 20, 2003

I was this kid, see, selling men's shirts and ties in an upscale department store in Morristown NJ. A guy and his wife came in to buy a dress shirt. By the time he left, I had sold him $1500 worth of clothes, including a suit, top coat, ties. (This in 1960).

If someone came in to look at a dress shirt and said they were thinking of spending about $20-25, I would show them those and then showcase the newest styles in Egyptian cotton that cost $35, but "feel that material." What's wrong with that?

Any good deli counter man says "What else? We just got some nice whitefish in. Here take a taste."

When you've got a customer in front of you, your nuts if you don't try to get them to spend as much as you can get them to. They can always say no.

We never called it upselling. Just good salesmanship.

Bait and switch is an unethical form of upselling. That's a different story.

Fat Guy · January 20, 2003

Directing a customer to the right product that fits their needs isn't upselling.

It is if the product is more expensive. It's not if the product is less expensive. Where are you getting this notion that upselling is no longer upselling if the customer's needs are met? Maybe that's something you want to be true, but it's not reflected in any of the literature, there's no definition out there to support such a view except the one you're offering here, and it doesn't make any sense. In fact, if you read about upselling in the marketing literature what you'll see is that the absolute best, most desirable upsell -- the pinnacle of upselling -- is one that combines a more profitable sale with increased customer satisfaction.

"Upselling is simply offering a suggestion to an already receptive buyer to enhance the value of his or her purchase."

http://www.soho.org/Marketing_Articles/Upselling.htm

"When you receive a call from a current or potential customer, your full array of products and services is often at your customer’s disposal. By employing your listening skills, asking pertinent questions, and thus better understanding how they intend to use your product(s), you may uncover additional needs, more elegant solutions or advantageous strategies they may employ. You're delivering service when you cross sell or upsell."

http://www.craigspeaks.com/upselling_service.htm

"Upselling is easy if you think of your main business as helping customers. Think about the problems your customers come to you with. What does it REALLY take to solve their problems?"

http://aaaentrepreneurship.inabliss.com/upselling.htm

Suzanne F · January 20, 2003

In your definition, it assumes that I am a knowledgable buyer to begin with. Most people aren't. Most people are ignorant ... .

Sentence 1: Maybe.

Sentence 2: Possibly.

Sentence 3: :hmmm: :blink: :shock: :blink: :shock: :blink: :shock:

Boy oh boy, have you got balls! :raz:

Fat Guy · January 20, 2003

We never called it upselling. Just good salesmanship.

True, but modern upselling theory is quite sophisticated and probably deserves its own word. What the good salesmen always knew intuitively has been reduced to theory and can now be reproduced to the tune of billions of dollars of additional profits. The McDonald's Extra Value Meal, which showcases the bundling aspect of upselling, is something of an innovation in marketing because it makes salesmanship almost automatic. It's far more effective than, "Do you want fries with that?" because it raises the stakes to, "If you don't get fries with that you're missing out on a bargain," but doesn't require a skilled salesperson to make the pitch.

Jaymes · January 20, 2003

In your definition, it assumes that I am a knowledgable buyer to begin with. Most people aren't. Most people are ignorant ... .
Sentence 1: Maybe.
Sentence 2: Possibly.
Sentence 3:
Boy oh boy, have you got balls!

Can I interest you in some bigger ones??? We're running a one-time special just for you, G.I. :biggrin:

jaybee · January 20, 2003

The McDonald's Extra Value Meal, which showcases the bundling aspect of upselling, is something of an innovation in marketing because it makes salesmanship almost automatic.

Supersize is more what you are talking about upselling. The meal bundling concept, which is brilliant, was designed to speed the process of ordering. McDonald's did a very sophisticated statistical analysis to determine the combinations that would cover the largest number of customer transactions. The decision time for the customer was cut in half, the time spent telling the clerk what they wanted was reduced to a number or letter, and the process transmitting the order and ringing it up was shortened, In all the method increased the "throughput" of customers at busiest times by a huge factor.

Fat Guy · January 20, 2003

They're both examples of upselling. The Extra Value Meal may increase throughput but that's only part of it. Were throughput the only concern, the bundle wouldn't include a discount that essentially forces a purchasing decision. What I've read is that the big benefit to McDonald's is that people buy more on account of the Extra Value Meal's bundled offer than they did before. In the instances where it works, it meets the definition of an upsell because the consumer spends more at the point of sale than he would have if left to his own devices. So many of those people who would have bought just a Big Mac and fries, or just a Big Mac and soda, are now buying Big Mac, fries, and soda. On top of that, yes, they're getting upsold to Super Size. It's a double upsell. Then they're offered "hot apple pie" by the employees who bother to pay attention in training. And that's what effective upselling is all about: Stringing together several upselling propositions to maximize profit. When you've got a live one, don't let go.

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