Best of New York Italian

[La Niña]

I've had two only fair meals at Locanda Vini & Olli, sorry to say. I love the room - it's a converted old pharmacy with a lot of the original fixtures still present - but the food has been disappointing.

[rozrapp]

I am adding I Trulli, having been reminded that I like the Enoteca next door.  I

Since it appears that this is a year-long project, you might want to consider waiting on I Trulli until the warm weather months so that you can dine in their very attractive back garden. I Trulli is one of our favorites. All the meals we have had there -- lunch and dinner -- have been delicious. And we have found that sitting in the garden really adds to the experience.

[Wilfrid]

Just kicking off the dust here, I see I ignored Rozrapp's advice by dining at I Trulli on Friday evening. I was accompanied by my Beloved and the Johnsons, who ate lightly - clearly saving themselves for Prune ( ).

I'd sampled some of the wine flights, along with passable salume and cheeses, in the Enoteca next door (they also have a wine shop, Vino, right across the street), but had never entered the restaurant. It's surprisingly large - three fairly spacious rooms, decorated in a simply, mock rustic style: tiles, unforgivingly hard chairs. There is a gesture towards the region of Puglia in the restaurant's name and cuisine: I Trulli, I gather from the inestimable Waverley Root, are little beehive-shaped houses, with conical roofs, found in the Puglian countryside. Eggplant is found in much of the region's cooking, although caponata seems to be a Sicilian specialty: I was served a neat turret of chilled caponata with panelle, or chickpea fritters. I expected the fritters to be fried crunchy; they turned out to be two soft, light discs, sandwiching a disc of goat cheese; a sort of savory Oreo. The dish was subtle but good. I tasted some of Yvonne's rabbit pate, and thought it well-flavored; one might even have suspected a wild rabbit was involved.

We inserted appetizer-sized pasta dishes. I need to concentrate on what pasta I'm ordering; this was flat stuff, a bit like tagliatelle only wider, served with generous chunks of duck meat. I now see it's called lanache. If the pasta course is supposed to be about the pasta, this was quite unremarkable. I liked the meat. My Beloved was very enthusiastic about her ricotta-stuffed ravioli, and I suppose they tasted good if you like that kind of thing.

I chose the roast rabbit because there was talk on the menu of a honey glaze. Didn't notice it. It was just competently roasted domestic rabbit, leg and saddle, with some fairly boring white beans cooked in tomato sauce, and several other unnecessary vegetables. One true Puglian delicacy (According to Root) turned up with dessert. Fichi mandorlati or almond-stuffed figs, served with a glass of moscato. With the savory courses we took a Negresco 2000 - a fruity, quaffable and frankly cheap wine ($28) I'd grown fond of on a previous visit to the Enoteca.

As someone who very rarely eats Italian restaurant food (not counting San Domenico which, as I said elsewhere, is really trying to do something else), I took this meal to be a benchmark for slightly above average New York Italian cooking. It was a nice, filling meal, with no excitement or surprises. As this thread rolls on, I'll be interested to see whether I upgrade or downgrade that rating. I think some red sauce next time out.

Edited February 24, 2003 by Wilfrid (log)

[rozrapp]

Just kicking off the dust here, I see I ignored Rozrapp's advice by dining at I Trulli on Friday evening. 

When I read the first line of your post, Wilfrid, I couldn't remember for the life of me what advice I gave you that you might have ignored. I knew that I wouldn't have advised that you not to go to I Trulli, since I have had several good meals there. Because your post was at the top of a new page, I had to go back to find my post and was both relieved and pleased to see that you only disregarded my suggestion about waiting until warm weather to try this restaurant so that you could sit in the garden.

It appears that this was the official beginning (?) of your adventures in Italian dining. Was there a particularly reason you decided to start with I Trulli?

[Wilfrid]

Convenience for someone Manhattan-based is the only reason I can think of. Arthur Avenue and other Outer Borough locations will appeal more when we cease to be battered by blizzards and storms. I had meant to start the project back in January, but travel intervened.

Edited February 24, 2003 by Wilfrid (log)

[yvonne johnson]

Thanks for the post Wilfrid as I can’t make head nor tail of the itemized bill. I thought I Trulli was average and I’m not sure it is deserving of two NYT stars. Leaving out Batali restaurants, I’ve had better meals at Arqua and I Coppi

A couple of high points: Beloved’s mussels (starters c$12) were good; lamb chops in my main course were very decent; the plain bread and focaccia were chewy and fresh (worth a mention as focaccia can quickly go hard and stale), and very good Negresco.

Overall, I thought the dishes were over-elaborate. For example, my rabbit pate appetizer came with think toasted slices of prosciutto-cheese bread. The combination was wrong, as the bread overpowered the pate which went better with plain bread. There was just a little too much accompaniment with the mains ($28-$32), e.g., beans, spinach, sometimes a mixture of the two.

As Wilfrid said, the pasta dishes (c.$12) were ordinary and a little sweaty—makes you realize how good Batali is.

The figs aside, the desserts (c$10) were the lowest point (oh, apart from the side of mashed potatoes that seemed to have no butter or cream or seasoning in them—they remained pretty much undisturbed). Chocolate-hazelnut sponge with ice cream was OK, though the apple tart was doused with apple sauce and raspberries (and what else?) and the fourth was a little box of pastry out of which a river of about half a cup of ultra pasteurized watery cream flowed.

It was a fun night out and we laughed a hell of a lot. The bar at Aubette (119 E 27) just down the street is worth a visit for a pre-dinner drink.

[Wilfrid]

I just remembered there was a touch of authentic Puglia (says Root) in that which lurked beneath your lamb chops, Yvonne. What I thought looked like bubble and squeak turned out to be mashed beans with some green leaf mixed in - can't now remember what. A Puglian specialty, apparently.

[yvonne johnson]

Ah yes, fava beans. I looked up the website and here it is:

Agnello

"Roasted Rack of Lamb with Fava Bean Puree and Dandelions, $32" The dandelions tasted like spinach.

http://www.itrulli.com/index.html

[Wilfrid]

With that link, I'll go back and improve my post with a couple of Italian words - thanks.

[Bux]

I doubt you should leave Fiamma out of your explorations. I'm not the one who should be giving recommendations on Italian restaurants, Schonfeld is however. Nevertheless, I thought the pasta there was exceptional. We found the meat courses far better than the main fish courses. A veal chop was excellent and a pigeon was nicely rosé.

[Wilfrid]

Thanks, Bux. I see it's rated highly. Will consider it.

[roryrabbitfield]

Maybe it's too late to weigh in on your list but here goes...

Why, oh why is East Post on this list? It's mediocre at best, and not very authentic in either the Italian or Italian-American categories.

I vote that you add Felidia (Midtown Manhattan) to your list; it is amazing.

Areo (in Brooklyn) was disappointing to me and several Italian-American friends.

I like Bar Pitti and Da Silvano, on 6th Ave in Manhattan. They are right next door to each other.

If you need any tasters for your project, count me in! I love Italian.

[Wilfrid]

Since I've only been to two places so far, and it's already March, we seem to have all the time in the world. I'll take account of your negatives, Rory. I did exclude the Bastianich and Batali places at the outset, not because they are unworthy, but because I have some familiarity with them. The idea was to try to get behind the big names and try to find out what Italian means as part of New York's traditional eating culture. Which is why I hesitate to include Fiamma in this project, although I'd be happy to eat there.

Any more votes for Bar Pitti or Da Silvano?

[La Niña]

Must vote against them both. Mind you, I love sitting out there on the sidewalk at both of these places, but I don't think the food stacks up with the rest of your list. Felidia, however, should be on it (if it isn't already).

I am DYING to get to Don Pepe's.

[roryrabbitfield]

I've scoured the internet and can't find an address or phone number for Don Pepe's. Someone please supply these if you have them. Much appreciated.

Felidia is a slice of heaven!

[ZenFoodist]

Parkside, in a word, is exceptional. We've had the same monthly reservation there for years and have never been disappointed. We've eaten at almost all of the Italian restaurants listed in this three page thread, as well as extensively throughout Italy each summer and I still maintain that I've had some of my most memorable meals at Parkside. The bread basket alone- that crusty semolina, decadent sausage bread and tomato bruschetta.....

mmmm

lisa

[Robert Schonfeld]

Parkside, in a word, is exceptional.  We've had the same monthly reservation there for years and have never been disappointed.  We've eaten at almost all of the Italian restaurants listed in this three page thread, as well as extensively throughout Italy each summer and I still maintain that I've had some of my most memorable meals at Parkside.  The bread basket alone- that crusty semolina, decadent sausage bread and tomato bruschetta.....

mmmm

lisa

This is a strong statement, ZenFoodist. I've never been to Parkside. Are you saying that Parkside is comparable to the best restaurants you've been to in Italy? Can you add any detail?

[Superflytritone]

I've scoured the internet and can't find an address or phone number for Don Pepe's. Someone please supply these if you have them. Much appreciated.

Felidia is a slice of heaven!

I believe it is spelled Don Peppe's, and a number that I found for them is :

Don Peppe Inc

13558 Lefferts Boulevard, South Ozone Park, NY 11420

(718) 845-7587

[Pan]

Maybe it's too late to weigh in on your list but here goes...

Why, oh why is East Post on this list? It's mediocre at best

In my experience, it serves dependably good food, but it's a good-value neighborhood place, certainly not one of the best Italian restaurants in New York, and there are a number of better Italian restaurants than East Post within a 5-to-10-block radius. East Post is no thread to Lavagna or Col Legno, for example.

[macrosan]

Are you saying that Parkside is comparable to the best restaurants you've been to in Italy? Can you add any detail?

I'm interested as to why you would ask for that comparison, Robert. Are you suggesting that the best Italian restaurants in the world are to be found in Italy ? Or maybe that Italian restaurants are "authentic" and you consider this an important component in the assessment of an "ethnic" restaurant ?

[mogsob]

I used to go to Casa Bella in Little Italy now and again for cheese . . . and the food was pretty good also.

I would strongly caution against Il Giglio, which is both poor and expensive at the same time. Instead, I would recommend Scalinatella on E60th or its sister restaurant Il Postino in midtown.

There used to be an old school Italian restaurant in Cobble Hill, complete with piano player and guest singing opera now and again. Can't recall the name or the location, but the food was really good.

[Robert Schonfeld]

Are you saying that Parkside is comparable to the best restaurants you've been to in Italy? Can you add any detail?

I'm interested as to why you would ask for that comparison, Robert. Are you suggesting that the best Italian restaurants in the world are to be found in Italy ? Or maybe that Italian restaurants are "authentic" and you consider this an important component in the assessment of an "ethnic" restaurant ?

I'm just interested in what ZenFoodist thinks, Martin. If there's great, or even good, Italian food to be had nearby, I'd like to check it out. But since you asked, yes, I think the best Italian restaurants in the world are found in Italy. The "authenticity" debate, which has been hammered to death on egullet, no longer holds much interest for me.

[Wilfrid]

My list, my rules:

No Batali.

No Bastianich (not even Lidia).

No "authenticity" debate.

I thank you.

[rozrapp]

My list, my rules:

No Bastianich (not even Lidia).

So, I guess that means you'll be skipping Becco with its all-you-can-eat pasta deal for $21.95.

Edited March 13, 2003 by rozrapp (log)

[ZenFoodist]

I always leave Parkside content. It is what it is, a neighborhood favorite that draws an interesting mix of Manhattanites, Cosa Nostra insiders, and people from all over The Island who come because of its excellent reputation and fantastic, consistent food. I've thankfully missed the "authenticity" debate and can't seem to ever get this site's search component to work for me so I'm not even going to bother sussing it out.

Parkside is Italian-American- they're not pulling hundred year old aged balsamics off the back shelves or using olive oils from their own groves or pecorinos from their own sheep, if you catch my drift. It's not Slow Food. It's not at all like eating at your favorite farmhouse in Toscana or at a neighborhood trattoria in Pantelleria as the fishermen haul in the day's catch. It's simply well prepared food made with excellent, fresh ingredients, superb service, and a management that seems to be dedicated to keeping the restaurant's reputation well-maintained.

I have had absolutely breathtaking (pardon the drama, but it's true) meals throughout Italy. Parkside is on a different scale- for NY, however, it remains my favorite Italian. I have never been disappointed and would go out of my way to eat there from anywhere in the tri-state area, yet I'd choose my fave restaurants in Italy over it in a sec. I hope I'm making sense.

If you decide to go, I'd be happy to discuss the best dishes with you :) Ci sono molti.

Ciao