Thai and Indian pre-prepared 'paste': do you saute first?

[rotuts]

Ive done a lot off SV. it suits me and in 'bulk' I can fill my freezer with interesting items that I only have to re-heat in the SV bath.

Ive done Indian-ish and Thai-ish with various pastes that were jared (Patak) or in a plastic bag in a plastic container (Maesri), added to the various meats and then SV based on the done-ness Id ld like with that meat.

Ive recently discovered that it might be better ie tastier to SV the meat 'plain' then reheat and make the sauce from the various pastes at the time of eating: paste, broth etc

then add the re-warmed meat to that and then serve. it seems to have a more lively taste.

but .... if you chose to use these pastes, do you saute them first to 'bloom' ?

understanding these pastes are a far cry from fresh ground spices.

thanks.

[KennethT]

I've done similar things before - it works very well. I saute the paste prior to adding liquid to make a sauce. For thai curry, if you can't get coconut cream that will crack, you can sweat the paste in a tbs or so of coconut oil, then add coconut milk... or, if you'd like to make a more western style sauce with curry flavors, you can sweat the paste in a little peanut or grapeseed oil, deglaze with an acidic white wine and then add chicken stock... I will sometimes sweat a few chopped shallots with the paste to add a bit more sweetness if necessary...

BTW - like you said, I understand that fresh paste is better than the prepackaged - although some prepackaged are better than others... if you can get it in your area, I'd recommend thai curry paste from Nittaya (also available online). It needs to be refrigerated, but it tastes much better than Mae Sri.

Edited July 30, 2013 by KennethT (log)

[HungryC]

Yes, I usually saute Thai curry pastes in a little oil to "loosen" before adding other ingredients. The paste flavors the oil, thins it, and everything seems to combine better. Dunno if this is traditional or typical, but it works for me.

[nickrey]

Yes. It is traditional to do this with pastes prior to adding other ingredients. I'd brown onions then add paste and fry it off then add other ingredients.

I realise that you are doing it for convenience but marinating the cooked meat in the sauce overnight and having the aromatics penetrate the meat prior to heating would give you an even more complex flavour profile.

[rotuts]

thanks for the tips Ill look for Nittaya pastes, but might be tough in my area.

[Twyst]

Definitely, and if you are doing a thai curry with coconut milk, its best to find coconut milk without stabalizers then scoop off the solid part, throw that into a pan, and saute it til it "cracks". It will break into oil and some solids, saute your curry paste in that oil for an authentic thai curry.

[rotuts]

any brand names on the coconut milk or what to look for on the can? Id love to try this and hopefully eventually try Nittaya brand paste.

many thanks again.

[KennethT]

I've had the best results using frozen coconut milk... I used to use the brown Chaokoh cans, but I haven't been able to get the thick cream that floats to the top to crack in a long time. I was having a chat with the thai owner of a thai grocery shop in Chinatown and he recommended the frozen coconut milk... I haven't turned back since... but be careful - they are not all teh same... some of the ones I've seen have stabilizers and preservatives, some are just 100% coconut milk.

[patrickamory]

The cream from the canned milk is very hard to "crack" due to the stabilizers, there's all that starchy stuff in there. I've sometimes had luck with the Aroy-D brand, but it's varied from can to can. You can be frying it for an hour and the oil won't separate from the solids.

I'd follow Kenneth's suggestion and find frozen milk, or even better, frozen chunks of coconut - there are Indian brands with large chunks of frozen coconut, no additives (you don't want the grated kind). You'll have to throw it in the processor with warm water and milk it, but it's worth it... second only to fresh coconut, which is so much more work, and a good chance (at least in the US Northeast) that you get a rotten coconut that you only identify after you hammer it open.

Bags of frozen chunks! They're the best!

[KennethT]

I haven't seen those! I've seen frozen bags of shredded coconut at Kalustyans, but I didn't notice if they had chunks... how does the cost compare to using the frozen coconut milk?

[Syzygies]

Kasma's Favorite Brands

Many flavors are fat-soluble, so yes, sauté first.

There are tremendous differences in the fat content of coconuts. Aside from the spoilage risk, one cannot buy coconuts in the United States with adequate fat for making milk.

At markets in Thailand one sees stands for buying freshly pressed coconut milk. One adds water (so unwise to sample uncooked) and applies tremendous pressure using a burst-proof sack. The Norwalk juicer is the same idea, and there are inexpensive presses based on automotive jacks (!).

I've made coconut milk on and off most of my life; my first uninformed efforts in the 1970's used dried coconut flakes and boiling water, which did actually work. More recently, I've done best by buying frozen Thai coconut meat, with Philipine packages a close second. One can do a decent job of making a boiling water puree with a commercial blender such as the Vita-Prep, then wringing through cheese cloth with some waste. Recall that Indian sources speak of a first extraction, second extraction; the thinner second extraction can still be useful.

One would get better extraction with a burst-proof sack such as intended for the Norwalk juice or hydraulic press, and a woodworker's bench vise. (I used my vise the other day to wring dry Preboggion for ravioli; use a freezer ziplock bag to keep food and shop from mixing.) Or just accept the waste. At Peter Kump cooking school decades ago our first class taught us to "peel" a potato with six quick slices to produce a rectangular block. I was horrified, but time is money.

[rotuts]

and Ive been using Tj's reduced fat coconut milk

Time to ask about this at my local-ish Indian Emporium.

Edited August 1, 2013 by rotuts (log)

[patrickamory]

Yup Kenneth you can get the chunks at Kalustyan! In the freezer next to the shredded bags (they keep moving stuff around, but the last time I was there they were in the second room, make a left, freezers on the right, bottom shelf). I think it's about $3.99 per large-ish bag, which should produce about the equivalent of 1-1 1/2 cans if you milk it right. (They leave the brownish interior skin on the chunks - not an issue for Thai savory dishes. Possibly an issue for desserts where you might want the pure white color.)

Syzygies I have not been to Thailand, but I have had luck with making coconut cream and milk from fresh coconuts in New York. I'm sure they can't compare to what one can find in Southeast Asia, but so long as the coconuts weren't rotted, I got better than I've had from any source including frozen. But for a lot more work & a lot more risk (both financial & labor-wise).

[rotuts]

on another thread I discussed smooties and got a new Brevelle blender. $ 199 - BB&B 20 %.

so far its fantastic.

I follow a show : Food Truck NZ. I guy goes around in a food truck to various large gatherings and tries to make various themed food healthier. a recent show was on polynesian food. very fatty it seems.

he made coconut milk from a fresh coconut using the same blender i just purchased. and its not a 'donated' blender for advert purposes as you cant quite see the name.

so Im off to the Indian Emporium looking for FZ coconut.

can I freeze what I make?

[KennethT]

Well, since I regularly buy frozen coconut milk, and have never had a problem with it, I'd say it was safe to assume that it would safe to freeze what you make... I'd put it in a ziplock bag and squeeze the air out using the same displacement method you use for SV, then lie the bag flat in the freezer either on a rack or on a metal tray for fast freezing.

[KennethT]

Patrick - thanks.. I must have just overlooked them... I'll look again sometime soon... how much better is the milk you get from squeezing your own compared with the frozen milk that has no additives? Is it worth the extra work?

[patrickamory]

Hi Kenneth, though I wrote "even better" I have to admit I've never used the frozen milk. If it works for you, I'm sure it's great!