Santoku vs Nakiri

[Karri]

Almost daily use, pro would sound better. And my apologies for derailing this conversation.

[mgaretz]

By my experience Tojiro knives are really good, the pro series western style chef's knife I have holds it's edge amazingly well. And I use it for everything in the kitchen, from mirepoix to deboning. But on a sidenote can I ask you how happy are you with the Edge Pro? I browsed the website and noticed there were two different lines for the sharpener. Are there mentionable differences?

So far I am very happy with it. Practiced on some beater knives to get used to it. I was finally able to get performance out of my Wusthofs that I hadn't been able to achieve with the factory edges, a Spyderco Sharpmaker or an EdgeCraft 1520. I can't speak to the difference between it and the Pro version, but it appears others have.

[mgaretz]

I noted that the non-"pro" came with a lot less stones. How many do you personally feel you need? Are you a home chef?

I just got the basic kit with the 220 and 320 stones (since I already had a ceramic hone from DMT) and added a 600 stone to my order.

One thing the basic kit did not include was the DVD. Can anyone comment if there is more/better info on the DVD than on the YouTube videos?

[mgaretz]

Congrats on the Tojiro, I have two and I love them - a DP gyuutou and a Shirogami carbon steel petty (that I'm finding challenging keeping rust free, but GOD is it sharp). They're a great value for the money, it's hard to imagine much better performance.

What do you plan on using the honesuki for? It's meant for cutting up chickens, isn't it?

Yes that's what it's for (a boning knife) and it is intended to replace my Wusthof curved boning knike. Since the honesuki is a straight blade, I have read that it's also useful as small utility knife (petty) and I plan to also use it as such. I like the Wusthof boning knife for slicing the fat layers off beef like brisket and also for cutting beef into chunks, like for stew. So I'm hoping the honesuki will be useful for that too.

[Hassouni]

Please do let us know how it fares on chickens, and whether it chips or anything if you try cutting through joints.

[rotuts]

re Edge-Pro:

the DVD is just the vids from them on You Tube.

I love my system and got the apex 3. it has 5 stones. as others have done,l getting the two stone kit then adding on is a fine way to wait and see. i dont use the 1000 much, but am glad I have it.

the ceramic hone is important as is keeping the stones very flat.

I got this to do it:

http://www.dmtsharp.com/sharpeners/bench-stones/dia-sharp/

the 8" x 3" does very fast work of flattening the stone.

[mgaretz]

Got my other three knives yesterday. They are all very nice. Haven't done much with them yet except do so trial cuts on celery and carrots.

The gyuto and sujihiki did a great job. The santoku is still better for veggies, being thinner than the gyuto (and while the sujihiki is thin, it's too long and slender for the task, but I am looking forward to trying it for slicing meat or sushi). The honesuki is a bruiser - plenty sharp but too thick for veggies. Looks like it will be perfect for boning - its intended purpose.

As far as I can tell so far, none of the knives needed any sharpening out of the box. If you read the comments on the various knife sites (dealers and forums), many people comment that the Tojiros have some fit and finish issues and the edges need to be touched up out of the box. I can't see any evidence of that. They are every bit as well finished and refined as my Wusthofs.

[mgaretz]

re Edge-Pro:

the DVD is just the vids from them on You Tube.

I love my system and got the apex 3. it has 5 stones. as others have done,l getting the two stone kit then adding on is a fine way to wait and see. i dont use the 1000 much, but am glad I have it.

the ceramic hone is important as is keeping the stones very flat.

I got this to do it:

http://www.dmtsharp.com/sharpeners/bench-stones/dia-sharp/

the 8" x 3" does very fast work of flattening the stone.

Thanks rotus. The DMT stone is pretty expensive - the Edgepro flattening kit is about half that much. I do have the coarse diamond rods from my Spyderco which can be fitted into the base to simulate a larger flat stone. I'll probably try that first for flattening the Edgepro stones.

[dcarch]

Why do you need the stone to be flat?

Would you get a nicer convex edge with a non-flat stone?

dcarch

[mgaretz]

Just an update:

I had ordered a Shum Premier Santoku from SLT because they were on sale at $99.95 but my store was out of stock. They came in last week so I went in over the weekend to pick it up. It's a very nice knife, but in side-by-side testing with the Tojiro, I decided I liked the Tojiro better. The Tojiro cut a bit better, probably because the angles are less acute on the Shun, but the Tojiro seemed easier to control - I had a better sense of where the blade was. So the Shun went back.

Yesterday I got the chance to test the Gyuto and the Honesuki. Our local Sprouts had Harris Ranch Organic Rib Roast on sale for $5.99/lb so I bought one. I sliced it into rib eye steaks. The Gyuto performed admirably. It was "bone in" but as is common in our area, the bones were pre-cut away and tied back on. I used the honesuki to slice the ribs apart and trim the excess fat away. It worked great.

I also used the honesuki to debone/cut apart a roasted chicken. Wow! Easiest time I have ever had with that task. It cut through the thigh/leg joint like it was butter! It made quick work of separating the breats from the bones.

[paulraphael]

Why do you need the stone to be flat?

Would you get a nicer convex edge with a non-flat stone?

dcarch

You get a hopelessly inconsistent and messed up edge from dished stones. A convex edge comes from changing the angle of the knife while you sharpen. Unless you are using an edge pro, or have almost supernaturally consistent sharpening technique, you will produce edges that have some concavity.

[paulraphael]

As far as I can tell so far, none of the knives needed any sharpening out of the box. If you read the comments on the various knife sites (dealers and forums), many people comment that the Tojiros have some fit and finish issues and the edges need to be touched up out of the box. I can't see any evidence of that. They are every bit as well finished and refined as my Wusthofs.

This seems to be new over the last couple of years. It corresponds (surprise!) with the Tojiros getting more expensive. The blades also look much thinner than they used to ... a good thing.

The Tojiros I saw last year at Korin definitely had a sharper factory edge than most knives, but they were still not close to their potential.

[mgaretz]

As far as I can tell so far, none of the knives needed any sharpening out of the box. If you read the comments on the various knife sites (dealers and forums), many people comment that the Tojiros have some fit and finish issues and the edges need to be touched up out of the box. I can't see any evidence of that. They are every bit as well finished and refined as my Wusthofs.

This seems to be new over the last couple of years. It corresponds (surprise!) with the Tojiros getting more expensive. The blades also look much thinner than they used to ... a good thing.

The Tojiros I saw last year at Korin definitely had a sharper factory edge than most knives, but they were still not close to their potential.

Do you mean that the actual sharpening job could be done to produce a sharper edge, or that the angle could be further reduced, or both?