Flame Tamers

[JHeald]

Hi eGullet,

I was browsing through Chris Amirault's Pressure Cooker topic and after looking at a few Amazon reviews of the Kuhn Rikon pressure cookers, noticed some discussions about "flame tamers". Amazon reviewers described using them to help evenly distribute heat for low-simmering cooking. I was wondering if a "flame tamer" would help improve my general cooking. I primarily use s.s. tri-ply cookware (mostly from pampered chef, and all-clad), but I also have a cast iron skillet and a carbon steel pan from de buyer, all on a gas range that has a variety of burner sizes.

I am pretty happy with my stove and cookware, but would a "flame tamer" help improve heat distribution and improve my cooking experience?

Thanks for your help.

[Blether]

I'd say even heat distribution is something you should expect from good cookware. I remember reading in a reliable source that for the size range of cookware, a base of 2mm or more of copper, or 5mm or more (I think it was ?) of aluminium will ensure even heat distribution, poor welding or adhesion of layers aside.

Where I find a flame tamer useful is when I need a very low heat, to simmer a bechamel sauce for instance. Even at its lowest setting, my smallest gas burner is just too fierce. So I use a flame-tamer to radiate some of the extra power away from the pot.

[hathor]

I agree with Blether. I use them when I need to tame the flame/heat and for my itty/bitty one cup moka coffee pot because it's too small to sit on the burner. Otherwise, they're sort of a pain in the neck.

[cbread]

Modernist Cuisine mentions that a frequent cause of uneven heating of the bottom of pots is a mismatch between the size of the pot and the size of the burner. I'm guessing that heavy metal discs over a burner and under a pot might mitigate the occasional big burner / small pot mismatch. Other than that, good pots well matched to the burners should not need that sort of remediation. But to get the effect of a super low flame a metal disc might work.

[Paul Bacino]

Love it when I caramelize onions in Thomas Keller's french onion soup recipe.

Paul

[andiesenji]

I have used the regular flame tamers and they work okay but I wanted something more and found this company that makes a product that is rather expensive but I have found so many uses for them that I feel they have more than paid for themselves.

BellaCopper

I have two Medium (9x9) plates that work on just one burner but I also have 2 larger ones (10 x 18 & 11 x 18) that cover two burners and are ideal for use with a long oval or rectangular pan that would ordinarily not be stovetop friendly, i.e., one of the lighter weight roasting pans.

I also use it when cooking with a large cauzela and other pottery pots, tagines and etc.

The little one (6x6) lives on the "simmer" burner on my cooktop to keep butter, lard, bacon dripping or syrup warm. Obviously, it need polishing but I seldom bother.

Another important advantage to me is that I can put several small sauce pots, butter warmers, metal milk pitchers etc., on the double plate and maintain them at the temperature I want. I do have electric warming trays but they have an arbitrary heat setting that is not adjustable.

The two largest, 10 x 18 & 11 x 18 were special orders they made for me, one for my regular cooktop and the bigger one for the larger two-burner grate I have outside.

Here's a photo of the 10x18 one in use under a batch of clotted cream in '07.

I realize these are expensive and not for everyone but they certainly work well for me and they will also last for generations.

Their prices reflect the price of copper and currently are less than which I purchased a 9inch in 2007:

Thank you again for your order from Bellacopper

You can always find out the current status of your order by going to

http://order.store.yahoo.com/OS/stat?bellacopper+1146+fa30ef4c943cc0479cef

Name Code Qty Each Options

--------------------------------------------------------

9" Medium - Gourmet 002 1 65.00

copper heat diffuser /

defroster plate

(Will ship within 24

hours)

Subtotal 65.00

Shipping 9.00

Tax 4.71

Total 78.71

[djyee100]

I'd only use a flame tamer in situations where gentle, even heat is important. They are said to improve the performance of electric burners that heat unevenly. They're also necessary if you're using clay cookware on an electric or ceramic stovetop.

If you feel your gas burners are heating unevenly, perhaps the solution is to have them checked out by an appliance specialist, rather than buying flame tamers.

[JHeald]

Thanks to everyone for the excellent advice!

Particular thanks to andiesenji: I'm defiantly going to look into BellaCopper.

Thanks again.

[andiesenji]

I'd only use a flame tamer in situations where gentle, even heat is important. They are said to improve the performance of electric burners that heat unevenly. They're also necessary if you're using clay cookware on an electric or ceramic stovetop.

If you feel your gas burners are heating unevenly, perhaps the solution is to have them checked out by an appliance specialist, rather than buying flame tamers.

My gas burners have been calibrated and adjusted so they burn evenly. However, I still have some very wide cooking vessels that do not themselves heat evenly across the entire bottom. (15 inch cazuela with the flat bottom being 10 inches in diameter. Even my largest gas burner does not heat the bottom evenly (surface temp of bottom measured with an infrared thermometer after heating water in it and dumping the water.)

I have copper pans that heat evenly no matter what size the burner although they heat more rapidly on the higher output burners. Same with All Clad and other fully clad cookware. Most of my cast iron heats evenly across the bottom but some pieces not as well as others.

I also have several pieces of glass cookware that I feel much more confident using on the copper plates, although they were designed to be used on a gas burner.

There are just some things that I like cooked for a long time over very low heat and these things allow me to do that.

I'm pretty sure that Paula Wolfert recommended the use of a Simmer Mat Diffuser when using a tagine on a stovetop and I think it was in a post here on eG.

I do have one of these and it is a very good product but it just isn't large enough to make a secure base for some of my pots.

I learned to cook on a wood/coal stove where the entire top of the cast iron stove was hot, hotter in some places, less hot in others. At one time I had a stove with a "French top" on which to cook and learned to slide pots and pans from spot to spot to find the optimal temperature. (I would have killed for an infrared thermometer back then but they were far in the future.)

It's all in what you are used to and what allows you to be comfortable while cooking. My heavy copper plates suit me but others should use whatever they like, or omit them altogether if they don't think they are necessary.

[hathor]

You always have the best gadgets!

What is on the underside of the copper? It's hard to tell from the photo.

[Paul Bacino]

I have a couple simmer mats diffusers.. One of which was cooled to rapidly. I think a relative may have put it in the wash water ( while hot )and warped it. It now has a slight crowning effect which doesn't allow the pot to sit correctly.. it wants to slide. I think I'm going to pitch it and look at one of those copper ones to have also. Yes..andiesenji must have an extra house to have all your toys.

So careful.. don't rapid cool these things ( quench )

Paul

Edited April 21, 2011 by Paul Bacino (log)

[andiesenji]

You always have the best gadgets!

What is on the underside of the copper? It's hard to tell from the photo.

More copper. It's solid - 3 mm thick. The 9 x 9 one weighs 52.25 ounces. Either side can be up or down. The side next to the burner does get a bit discolored but copper cleaner or to clean the business side of this one I used half of a squeezed lemon and some salt.

The top view was the side I cleaned just now.

You notice that unlike many online vendors, their phone number and address is readily seen on the "Info" page along with the note that custom sizes are available.

I simply phoned and told them the size I wanted and the gentleman told me the price and I ordered it and had it two days later but I live close by.

I know other people who have ordered custom sizes and I don't know of anyone who hasn't been extremely happy with the results.

One of my friends, who does catering has two of these LPG double burner stoves and after having problems with some pots not sitting securely on the burners (scalded her arm when one tipped) she ordered the copper plates to fit across both burners.

They were costly but she feels that not having to worry about an employee or a client at one of her events being harmed, is well worth it.

Edited April 21, 2011 by andiesenji (log)

[Junkbot]

Has anyone tried one of these copper plates with cast iron? My cast iron pan develop some ridiculous hot spots due to my old electric range. I was hoping a thick copper or aluminum plate would even out the heat.

[andiesenji]

Has anyone tried one of these copper plates with cast iron? My cast iron pan develop some ridiculous hot spots due to my old electric range. I was hoping a thick copper or aluminum plate would even out the heat.

Yes. I have used cast iron, stainless steel, Corning ware, crockery (cazuleas, tagines, etc.) on these copper plates.

I'll put one over two burners and check the temps with my infrared thermometer and post the results a little later.

After 30 seconds on high and checked at 10 second intervals temp even from end to end and side to side.

reduced flame to medium

I didn't see any point in continuing to heat it as this demonstrates how evenly the copper heats and even near the edges the temp is the same as right over the burner.

Edited January 10, 2012 by andiesenji (log)

[dcarch]

If your stove has removable grates, all you have to do is stack one on the other, and simmer away.

dcarch

[JHeald]

If your stove has removable grates, all you have to do is stack one on the other, and simmer away.

dcarch

Can you elaborate? I've never heard of doing that.

I have a gas range with heavy cast iron removable grates that cover the entire stove-top (rather than just squares around the burner). How would that work?

Thanks.

[jrshaul]

I looked up the price for copper stock - unless you're buying tons or getting it from a scrap dealer, you won't pay much less than what BellaCopper asks for a 9"x9"x0.125" sheet . My only worry is that high-purity copper can become very soft, even in 3mm thicknesses, though this is only problematic if you're a dunce like me and frequently drop things.

Given the very low price of aluminum, I'm surprised it's not used more for this application. A 6mm aluminum sheet should perform very similarly to a 3mm copper sheet, but would be significantly less expensive.

Also, has anyone tried placing a small pan on top of a big cast-iron pan?

Edited January 10, 2012 by jrshaul (log)

[qrn]

If your stove has removable grates, all you have to do is stack one on the other, and simmer away.

dcarch

I salvaged one from a used stuff/ thrift store,and it is really good when doing a long and low braise,with a big cast ironpot... and any thing that "low"is not low enough...

Bud

[dcarch]

If your stove has removable grates, all you have to do is stack one on the other, and simmer away.

dcarch

Can you elaborate? I've never heard of doing that.

I have a gas range with heavy cast iron removable grates that cover the entire stove-top (rather than just squares around the burner). How would that work?

Thanks.

You need a stove with separate grates for each of the burners.

dcarch

[andiesenji]

I looked up the price for copper stock - unless you're buying tons or getting it from a scrap dealer, you won't pay much less than what BellaCopper asks for a 9"x9"x0.125" sheet . My only worry is that high-purity copper can become very soft, even in 3mm thicknesses, though this is only problematic if you're a dunce like me and frequently drop things.

Given the very low price of aluminum, I'm surprised it's not used more for this application. A 6mm aluminum sheet should perform very similarly to a 3mm copper sheet, but would be significantly less expensive.

Also, has anyone tried placing a small pan on top of a big cast-iron pan?

I have dropped one of the square copper plates which landed on a corner (and cracked two of my floor tiles) there was slight damage as indicated in the photos but it has not impaired the function. There was far more damage to the floor.

Normal corner

The "bent" corner from two angles.

It's only black/greenish because it needs a good cleaning after cooking marmalade in little pots on it.

Yes, I have used a big two-burner cast iron pan to hold smaller pans - before I got the copper plates - and it works okay but the heat distribution is not as even - there is a cooler spot in the space between two burners.

It can be turned upside-down to use as a griddle and could be used for lower heat under small pans.

[boilsover]

Andie:

These larger flame-tamers from Bella might also solve the problem of uneven heating that plagues most stovetop griddles. Have you used them under griddles as well?

Thanks!

[andiesenji]

Andie:

These larger flame-tamers from Bella might also solve the problem of uneven heating that plagues most stovetop griddles. Have you used them under griddles as well?

Thanks!

I don't recall using griddles on them but I have used little cast iron skillets and my triple blini pan to maintain even heat under all three segments.

There are definite hot spots when the latter is used directly on the burner but I get even heat with the copper plate.

[Junkbot]

Also, has anyone tried placing a small pan on top of a big cast-iron pan?

Were you trying to get a more even heat profile or lower the overall heat? I'd only use cast iron as a flame tamer as it is a very poor conductor ie. will have hot spots.