Thomas Keller sous vide talk 11/24/08

[katbert]

FYI

Thomas Keller is doing a talk on sous vide cooking at the free library on Monday 11/24/08.

http://libraryphila.tix.com/Event.asp?Event=161469

Related to this, someone asked me if anyone's doing sous vide in PHL and I couldn't think of anywhere off the top of my head. Anyone?

[jdanton]

Related to this, someone asked me if anyone's doing sous vide in PHL and I couldn't think of anywhere off the top of my head. Anyone?

←

I think Percy (percyn) and I are, but since its at home, it probably doesn't count.

[philadining]

Do you mean is anyone doing sous-vide at restaurants in Philly?

Matt Levin at Lacroix.

I seem to recall that Garces was using it at one point at Amada, but I don't know if that's still true.

Johnny Mac had been our highest-profile experimenter with that in a commercial restaurant, but I can't picture him sous-viding anything at Pub and Kitchen. I'm not sure if his successor at snackbar is continuing with that particular technique.

I'm quite sure there are more examples, there are a few current chefs in Philly who have at least experimented with it, and might be using that process and just not making noise about it.

[degustazione]

i believe supper uses sous vide for a good bit of the proteins

[hathor]

"Legally" speaking, is it permitted to use the sous vide technique in a restaurant? I remember a few years back it wasn't....anyone who was doing it, did it quietly. Is that still an issue?

[Vadouvan]

"Legally" speaking, is it permitted to use the sous vide technique in a restaurant? I remember a few years back it wasn't....anyone who was doing it, did it quietly. Is that still an issue?

Judith.

It's a slightly complicated issue.

In order to legally cook "sous-vide", you need to get clearance from the health department and start a very complicated HAACP (google it) plan documenting every detail of the process daily.

The sort of cleanliness standards required to do sous-vide properly make 95% of all restaurants below par. That being said, the concerns are storage and cooking temps that may be in complete conflict with FDA cooking guidelines in some cases.

Philadelphia Health Department as far as I know has no actual HAACP guideline for sous-vide therefore it is up to individual operators to come up with one. Fact is they do not even have enough inspectors to handle basic violations before even attempting to delve into extremely detailed scientific data.

Cooking fish sous vide I think is totally out of the question for the HD becuase the temp is just too low, however it is the best technique for such things as butter poached crustaceans.

Sous-vide would be superflous at Amada, there is nothing on that menu that benefits from SV.

So "Legally" speaking, it is "NOT" legal.

Astute diners can tell what has been cooked sous-vide either visually or texturally based on what it is exactly, either way the term "sous-vide" even if allowed does not belong on a restaurant menu.

It's a technical term that is subject to one or more finishing methods.

[Andrew Fenton]

Astute diners can  tell what has been cooked sous-vide either visually or texturally based on what it is exactly, either way the term "sous-vide" even if allowed does not belong on a restaurant menu.

It's a technical term that is subject to one or more finishing methods.

Hey Vadouvan, I'm curious why you say the term doesn't belong on a menu. Is "sous vide" (or, more appropriately, I guess, "cuit sous vide") less appropriate for a menu than "broiled", "fried", "poached" or other cooking terms?

[Vadouvan]

Hey Vadouvan, I'm curious why you say the term doesn't belong on a menu. Is "sous vide" (or, more appropriately, I guess, "cuit sous vide") less appropriate for a menu than "broiled", "fried", "poached" or other cooking terms?

Professor Fenton.

Good to see you at the market.

Here is the deal, "Sous-Vide" or if you prefer the term "CSV" (as you say which is correct) is a transparent step in praparation.

The meats will in virtually all cases be seared afterwards, all it allows is more even temperature along the cross section and perhaps some textural improvements.

A pan roasted steak can be cooked sous-vide but it still needs to be pan roasted with a quick sear and butter basting at the end (rather quickly however).

A butter poached lobster cooked sous-vide for example is still butter poached except at very precise temperature due to using sous-vide.

In essence it just overly using technical terms unnecessarily.

The argument that it isn't less appropriate than terms like "broiled" or "fried" would require it to be translated from French to English first thus the phrase "In the pouch" sounds silly on a menu.

A silly statement translated into another language is still silly and falls under the general misuse of French.

Edited October 16, 2008 by Vadouvan (log)

[Andrew Fenton]

In essence it just overly using technical terms unnecessarily.

The argument that it isn't less appropriate than terms like "broiled" or "fried" would require it to be translated from French to English first thus the phrase "In the pouch" sounds silly on a menu.

A silly statement translated into another language is still silly and falls under the general misuse of French.

Oh, I don't know. I appreciate the desire to defend the honor and purity of the French language. But for centuries now, English has been beating French up, stealing its vocabulary, misusing its terms (and grabbing its lunch money and shoving it into a locker for good measure.) "To sous vide" doesn't make much sense etymologically, but then, neither does calling a main course an "entree". And it's a genuinely useful term, so I suspect that fighting "sous vide" is a losing battle.

Still, it's this sort of dispute that makes grammarians such wealthy and powerful individuals...

Edited October 16, 2008 by Andrew Fenton (log)

[hathor]

"Legally" speaking, is it permitted to use the sous vide technique in a restaurant? I remember a few years back it wasn't....anyone who was doing it, did it quietly. Is that still an issue?

Judith.

It's a slightly complicated issue.

In order to legally cook "sous-vide", you need to get clearance from the health department and start a very complicated HAACP (google it) plan documenting every detail of the process daily.

The sort of cleanliness standards required to do sous-vide properly make 95% of all restaurants below par. That being said, the concerns are storage and cooking temps that may be in complete conflict with FDA cooking guidelines in some cases.

Philadelphia Health Department as far as I know has no actual HAACP guideline for sous-vide therefore it is up to individual operators to come up with one. Fact is they do not even have enough inspectors to handle basic violations before even attempting to delve into extremely detailed scientific data.

Cooking fish sous vide I think is totally out of the question for the HD becuase the temp is just too low, however it is the best technique for such things as butter poached crustaceans.

Sous-vide would be superflous at Amada, there is nothing on that menu that benefits from SV.

So "Legally" speaking, it is "NOT" legal.

Astute diners can tell what has been cooked sous-vide either visually or texturally based on what it is exactly, either way the term "sous-vide" even if allowed does not belong on a restaurant menu.

It's a technical term that is subject to one or more finishing methods.

←

Thanks.... seems as if nothing has changed then.

FYI, even the Italians are supposed to follow HAACP guidlines, and they even call it by the same name. Fortunately the Italians still leave a little room for common sense so you will occasionally find chefs using the sous vide technique.

[wkl]

yo v- i thought sous vide meant under pressure. which still would be silly to put on a menu.

[Capaneus]

yo v- i thought sous vide meant under pressure. which still would be silly to put on a menu.

←

Literal translation is "under empty/void/vacuum".