Fish Sauce: A historical query

[v. gautam]

Is anyone familiar with Kem Bug Nut, a fermented fish product of Thailand's central and lower Mekong provinces? How is it used? Thanks.

[Adam Balic]

I'm guessing that it may be the fermented fish product Khem bak nad/Khem mak nad (bak/mak nad is dialect for "pineapple").

The is some information of the product on pg 164 of this google book link.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Gt_QnY...hl=en#PPA164,M1

[takadi]

Hmm, I've never heard of term "baluchuan" in my life nor have I seen such a fish paste. The majority of my family originated from Ha Noi, which probably explains why. I'm going to have to ask my grandmother about this though

[v. gautam]

Adam,

Thank you very much for the valuable reference, although I am sorry to be disabused of my marvellously memorable Bug Nut! The product sounds quite interesting, delicious even. Pineaple juice must be a strong proteolytic enviroment, so we can expect a richly flavored sauce high in glutamates, with the addition of the sugar, tartness and flavo components of fruit and fish.

I wonder how this is employed by its inventors, because your reference indicatestwo products using papaya and pineapple that must have come fairly late through inspired experimentation.

gautam

[Adam Balic]

Hmm, I've never heard of term "baluchuan" in my life nor have I seen such a fish paste.  The majority of my family originated from Ha Noi, which probably explains why. I'm going to have to ask my grandmother about this though

←

I would be interested in hearing what your grandmother had to say, and if any fermented fish condiments of this nature surived into the modern era.

[Adam Balic]

Adam,

Thank you very much for the valuable reference, although I am sorry to be disabused of my marvellously memorable Bug Nut! The product sounds quite interesting, delicious even. Pineaple juice must be a strong proteolytic enviroment, so we can expect a richly flavored sauce high in glutamates, with the addition of the sugar, tartness and flavo components of fruit and fish.

I wonder how this is employed by its inventors, because your reference indicatestwo products using papaya and pineapple that must have come fairly late through inspired experimentation.

gautam

←

Yes, I imagine that the fruit is used for it's protease activity. Pineapples were introduced into Southern China by the early 17th century, even earlier in India. So I guess this specific combination could be hundreds of years old. Possibly older if the pineapple and papaya are a replacement for an endemic fruit.

[v. gautam]

Actinidia, kiwifruit, would be endemic in South China and Yunnan, and has a powerful proteolytic activity. Several species of Actinidia including the the modern kiwi, an quite possibly several more fruit from the cashew nut and fig families. Mangifera spp. and Artocarpus spp. e.g. Artocarpus lakoocha could be a candiddate. Incidentally, our common dried fig is a powerful tenderizer and used very eefectively in northern India as a combination tenderizer, stuffing, flavorant et al. for rolled leg of lamb.

Dried fig soaked in whey or buttermilk, and any herbs you fancy ground to your liking rolled up in a butterlied leg of lamb, tied, marinated for a while, cooked in a romertopf or similar unglazed clay vessel under dum as we say in India, i.e. internally steamed externally vessel roasted on embers:delicious.

[Adam Balic]

Is the term "dum" referes to dum pukht? A great cooking technique.

[v. gautam]

Yes, pukht being an Indo-Iranian root as in Sansrit pAka, pakkva to cook, to ripen, cooked, ripened =pukht; dum as in breath, referring to the steam in an enclosed vessel placed on embers, a sort of makeshift pressure cooking, employing minimal water.

Indian meat braises are often said to be placed on "dum", i.e. "matured" on very low heat in an enclosed vessel. What you read in most popular books askin you to add water to "curries" and simmer is a wrong technique. People learn from a few popular writers imbibing really wrong technique and then consider great masters and experts of Indian cookery, pontificating at length.

Unfortunately, most of the popular writers are not masters of their craft, merely charismatic public figures. Meat cookery is not their forte. Sorry to say, nor do the tandurias understand the meat cookery of north Indian braises and gravies and rice-meat combinations. In the US, public cleverness is all that matters. If you are seriously interested, we can invite you to forums where we discuss minutiae of the meat and its cooking. It starts withthe feeding of the animal and the nature of the fat depots and types of fat and the liquid crstalline structure of the fat with each feeding regime. This has a direct relevance to what goes on during the "dum", the shape an size ofthe vese, and how ad wha sices ae absorbed.

[Adam Balic]

One thing that I have noticed over the last few years of travel is that meat dishes often don't translate very well as meat cuts, age of beast, species of beast, method of rearing, post-slaughter practices etc etc vary a great deal more then people acknowledge.

I have a very little knowledge of the dum pukt dishes due to the similarity in technique of some of these dishes and some related dishes (Hyderabadi biryani etc) and the tangia type dishes that are found in throughout North Africa and and other regions such as Turkey. A "tangia" is a specific dish found in Morocco, essential marinated meat cooked very gently in an upright clay pot cooked in a tannur (oven). There are similar dishes with different names found were ever tannurs are used. As you can most likely guess "tannur" and "tandori" are closely related.

[liuzhou]

Whether you buy into the theory that the Romans brought fish sauce to Asia along the Silk Road or you prefer the alternative, that it was invented independently, there is no denying the importance fish and fish sauces had in the Roman Empire and therefore Europe.

 

It is certain that the Greeks introduced garos  to the Romans who Latinised it into garum. The problem is that no one is entirely sure what garum was. Later, the Romans started talking about a fish sauce they called liquamen. Was this simply garum renamed and if so, why? And what was haimation?

 

The famous 4th century CE cookbook referred to as Apicius includes numerous dishes using liquamen but only mentions garum in passing.

 

Garum then disappeared in the 5th century, to be followed by liquamen soon after, coinciding almost with the fall of the Empire.

 

There is a detailed account of the historical and linguistic confusion and uncertainties here.

 

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11457-018-9211-5

 

Well worth a read if you are at all interested.

 

I'll be looking into European fish sauces next, when I have time and the current eG access problem is resolved. But I won't be starting in Italy.

 

 

[liuzhou]

Pliny the Elder - PD

 

Pliny the Elder (23-79 CE) is best known for his Natural History, an encyclopedia diplomatically described by Encyclopedia Brittanica as being "of uneven accuracy".

 

His name comes up in most accounts of garum as he was one of the first to describe it, saying

 

"Another liquid, too, of a very exquisite nature, is that known as "garuim:" it is prepared from the intestines of fish and various parts which would otherwise be thrown away, macerated in salt; so that it is, in fact, the result of their putrefaction. Garum was formerly prepared from a fish, called "garos" by the Greeks..."

 

What these accounts choose not to mention is that he was in fact writing a fantastical 'medical' treatise which makes TCM look sensible. Among other ailments, he recommended garum for 'bringing away the afterbirth' and praised its efficacious effects in the treatment of crocodile bites. To say he was an unreliable witness would be generous.

 

Garum's medical properties' reputation survived long after its culinary use was all but lost. A 1607 English document reads "Cure it by laying two linnen clothes, or by a pinte of the best Garum, and a pound of Oyle infused into the left nostril of the Mule."

 

More usefully, he mentions several places involved in the production of garum in Italy but also further away in the Empire, including Spain, which was considered to produce some of the highest quality garum, capable of attracting huge prices.

 

In recent years, attempts have started to revive the industry.

 

Spanish company Matiz of Andalusia is producing Flor de Garum (literally Flower of Garum), a premium fish sauce they claim to be made to a 3rd century recipe discovered in an unidentified European abbey.

 

 

Made using anchovies and salt it is also spiced. It, like ancient garum, is less heavily salted (15% salt to fish compared with up to 50% in Asian sauces).

 

This results in a finer, more complex flavour while retaining its umami. It is recommended for "in salad dressings, marinades, pasta dishes, or add a splash to finished dishes". It can also be incorporated in dips with garlic, vinegar and chilli.

 

Available through Amazon and elsewhere.

Edited August 18, 2024 by liuzhou (log)

[liuzhou]

Here are the two relevant to garum chapters of The Natural History from Pliny the Elder. John Bostock, M.D., F.R.S. H.T. Riley, Esq., B.A. London. Taylor and Francis, Red Lion Court, Fleet Street. 1855

 

This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 United States License.

 

The full Natural History, complete with footnotes and references can be found here:

 

https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0137%3Abook%3D1%3Achapter%3Ddedication

 

 43.—GARUM: FIFTEEN REMEDIES.

 

Another liquid, too, of a very exquisite nature, is that known as "garuim:" it is prepared from the intestines of fish and various parts which would otherwise be thrown away, macerated in salt; so that it is, in fact, the result of their putrefaction. Garum was formerly prepared from a fish, called "garos" by the Greeks; who assert, also, that a fumigation made with its head has the effect of bringing away the afterbirth.

 

At the present day, however, the most esteemed kind of garum is that prepared from the scomber, in the fisheries of Carthago Spartaria: it is known as "garumn of the allies," and for a couple of congii we have to pay but little less than one thousand sesterces. Indeed, there is no liquid hardly, with the exception of the unguents, that has sold at higher prices of late; so much so, that the nations which produce it have become quite ennobled thereby. There are fisheries, too, of the scomber on the coasts of Mauretania and at Carteia in Bætica, near the Straits which lie at the entrance to the Ocean; this being the only use that is made of the fish. For the production of garum, Clazomenæ is also famed, Pompeii, too, and Leptis; while for their muria, Antipolis, Thurii, and of late, Dalmatia, enjoy a high reputation.

 

44.—ALEX: EIGHT REMEDIES.

 

Alex, which is the refuse of garum, properly consists of the dregs of it, when imperfectly strained: but of late they have begun to prepare it separately, from a small fish that is otherwise good for nothing, the apua of the Latins, or aphua of the Greeks, so called from the fact of its being engendered from rain. The people of Forum Julii make their garum from a fish to which they give the name of "lupus." In process of time, alex has become quite an object of luxury, and the various kinds that are now made are infinite in number. The same, too, with garum, which is now prepared in imitation of the colour of old honied wine, and so pleasantly flavoured as to admit of being taken as a drink.

 

Another kind, again, is dedicated to those superstitious observances which enjoin strict chastity, and that prepared from fish without scales, to the sacred rites of the Jews. In the same way, too, alex has come to be manufactured from oysters, sea-urchins, sea-nettles, cammari, and the liver of the surmullet; and a thousand different methods have been devised of late for ensuring the putrefaction of salt in such a way as to secure the flavours most relished by the palate.

 

Thus much, by the way, with reference to the tastes of the present day; though at the same time, it must be remembered, these substances are by no means without their uses in medicine. Alex, for instance, is curative of scab in sheep, incisions being made in the skin, and the liquor poured therein. It is useful, also, for the cure of wounds inflicted by dogs or by the sea-dragon, the application being made with lint. Recent burns, too, are healed by the agency of garum, due care being taken to apply it without mentioning it by name. It is useful, too, for bites inflicted by dogs, and for that of the crocodile in particular; as also for the treatment of serpiginous or sordid ulcers. For ulcerations, and painful affections of the mouth and ears, it is a marvellously useful remedy.

 

Muria, also, as well as the salsugo which we have mentioned, has certain astringent, mordent, and discussive properties, and is highly useful for the cure of dysentery, even when ulceration has attacked the intestines. Injections are also made of it for sciatica, and for cœliac fluxes of an inveterate nature. In spots which lie at a distance in the interior, it is used as a fo- mentation, by way of substitute for sea-water.

 

Edited March 7, 2024 by liuzhou (log)

[liuzhou]

Colatura di Alici may sound cool and glamorous but when you learn the literal meaning of the Italian some of that disappears. It's literally 'leakage from anchovies', often rendered in English as 'anchovy dripping'.

 

In the town of Cetera on Italy's Amalfi Coast , gutted and filleted alici (anchovies) are mixed with sale (salt) and left to ferment in small wooden barrels called terzigni  for up to three years. 

 

When it is deemed to be ready, holes are drilled in the barrels and the liquid drained through the fermented fish residue, further flavouring the sauce.

 

It is then filtered, bottled and sold for a high price in specialist Italian stores.

 

 

The locals make a big deal of it being the reincarnation of garum, but there is little to actually back that up. Marketing.

 

That said, it is undoubtedly a very fine fish sauce. The lower salt content (as low as 10% to 90% fish) means a more powerful umami flavour. It should be used sparingly which helps offset the high cost.

 

It isn't usually used for cooking, but more as a condiment added to vegetables, fish or pasta.

 

[linsen7]

In the past, many families had the habit of making homemade fish sauce. Does anyone know what to do if you want to make homemade fish sauce?

（I don't think a big vat is suitable)

 

[liuzhou]

2 hours ago, linsen7 said:

In the past, many families had the habit of making homemade fish sauce. Does anyone know what to do if you want to make homemade fish sauce?

（I don't think a big vat is suitable)

 

 

 

Having smelled fish sauce  being made in both Vietnam and Thailand, I can tell you few people would want to do it at home, especially in an apartment building or near any other peoples' homes.

 

Those vats are more typically used for soy sauce.

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 05:19 PM by liuzhou (log)

[linsen7]

7 hours ago, liuzhou said:

 

Having smelled fish sauce  being made in both Vietnam and Thailand, I can tell you few people would want to do it at home, especially in an apartment building or near any other peoples' homes.

 

Those vats are more typically used for soy sauce.

 

 

Indeed, it smells bad. Many factories have moved from urban areas to suburbs for this very reason. But if it is fermented in a small jar of about 20 cm, the problem will not be so serious? Of course, the premise may be that you have a small yard at home...

This seems to be a case of success，Search Results for “fish sauce” – ANTHROCHEF

[liuzhou]

22 minutes ago, linsen7 said:

Indeed, it smells bad. Many factories have moved from urban areas to suburbs for this very reason. But if it is fermented in a small jar of about 20 cm, the problem will not be so serious? Of course, the premise may be that you have a small yard at home...

This seems to be a case of success，Search Results for “fish sauce” – ANTHROCHEF

 

I am very suspicious of that story in the link. No one is sure exactly what garum was. And it wasn't the Romans who invented or named it but the Greeks as explained above. Garum is the Romanisation of the Greek γάρον.

 

I certainly wouldn't want that hanging around in my fridge for months contaminating everything else.

 

[linsen7]

1 hour ago, liuzhou said:

 

我对链接中的那个故事非常怀疑。没有人确定 garum 到底是什么。正如上面解释的那样，发明或命名它的不是罗马人，而是希腊人。Garum 是希腊语 γάρον 的罗马化。

 

我当然不希望它在我的冰箱里挂几个月污染其他所有东西。

 

Yeah, the content in the link is strictly speaking just a story. They are more of imitating the production of traditional fish sauce with modern technology.

However, if fish sauce can really be made in this way, then does it not require a refrigerator, but only a cool and dry place to produce fish sauce? After all, most ancient people did not have refrigerators.

 

And considering that fish sauce is simple to produce and consumed in large quantities (specifically in coastal areas), perhaps many families in the past had mastered the technology of producing fish sauce at home.（To be honest, fish sauce is essentially the solution that oozes out of pickled fish...）

[liuzhou]

59 minutes ago, linsen7 said:

And considering that fish sauce is simple to produce and consumed in large quantities (specifically in coastal areas), perhaps many families in the past had mastered the technology of producing fish sauce at home.（To be honest, fish sauce is essentially the solution that oozes out of pickled fish...）

 

I know you're in China. You told me. Where is fish sauce made in China today? Very few places. And not at home.

 

Soy sauce replaced fish sauce centuries ago. Fish sauce today is mainly restricted to S.E. Asia where it is is available in every supermarket, corner shop and even on the streets. That is not the case in China. Even Chaoshan is not easy to find in Guangdong, although that situation is very slowly improving.

 

People don't make it for good reason. They don't want it or even know what it is.

 

(And of course it doesn't require refrigeration. Of course, the ancient Greeks and Romans didn't have refrigerators. But there is no evidence that they made it at home, either.)

 

 

Edited yesterday at 04:33 AM by liuzhou (log)

[linsen7]

2 hours ago, liuzhou said:

 

I know you're in China. You told me. Where is fish sauce made in China today? Very few places. And not at home.

 

Soy sauce replaced fish sauce centuries ago. Fish sauce today is mainly restricted to S.E. Asia where it is is available in every supermarket, corner shop and even on the streets. That is not the case in China. Even Chaoshan is not easy to find in Guangdong, although that situation is very slowly improving.

 

People don't make it for good reason. They don't want it or even know what it is.

 

(And of course it doesn't require refrigeration. Of course, the ancient Greeks and Romans didn't have refrigerators. But there is no evidence that they made it at home, either.)

 

 

Obviously, in China, fish sauce is generally produced by specialized workshops or food companies. However, this does not mean that it is completely unnecessary for individuals to make it themselves. Because many workshops are produced in the form of family units, but they transition to enterprises or other forms as the scale of production expands.

And soy sauce replaced fish sauce a few centuries ago. This argument is limited. In Fujian, at least in the last century, shrimp sauce was once the most popular condiment in the local area, even more popular than the dynasties before the Qing Dynasty (if my studies go well, this will be the research topic of my doctoral degree).

And now it is difficult to say whether people have sufficient reasons to make their own (or family-made) fish sauce. I can give several possibilities: ① Families have the habit of making their own fish sauce. For example, at least half a century ago, Taiwanese families would retain the marinade (the original version of fish sauce) during the marinating process; ② When fish sauce is profitable (such as becoming a geographical indication or an Internet celebrity product), there will be family-made fish sauce trials (that is, some family workshops); ③ Overseas Fujian and Guangdong people will buy or make their own fish sauce out of nostalgia for the past or to increase family identity. （but I don’t have any relevant information about overseas Chinese making their own fish sauce. I only know that in the last century, most of the fish sauce factories in Southeast Asia were opened by Chinese, as can be seen in the local chronicles.)

[linsen7]

3 hours ago, liuzhou said:

 

I know you're in China. You told me. Where is fish sauce made in China today? Very few places. And not at home.

 

Soy sauce replaced fish sauce centuries ago. Fish sauce today is mainly restricted to S.E. Asia where it is is available in every supermarket, corner shop and even on the streets. That is not the case in China. Even Chaoshan is not easy to find in Guangdong, although that situation is very slowly improving.

 

People don't make it for good reason. They don't want it or even know what it is.

 

(And of course it doesn't require refrigeration. Of course, the ancient Greeks and Romans didn't have refrigerators. But there is no evidence that they made it at home, either.)

 

 

As for the Greeks and Romans, their fish sauce is something I really don’t understand… Therefore, the above discussion is mainly for the Chinese community in China and Southeast Asia