Carnitas

[ExtraMSG]

Fifi, my experience with Thai seasonings like lime leaves and lemongrass is that they're as important for the aroma as they are for the flavor. I've tried using lemongrass infused water, eg, to poach chicken and it didn't add much flavor at all, even though the broth that it left was quite nice. I think it's one of those things that could be an Achatz aroma and be nearly as effective as if it were in the dish. I imagine coconut milk would add a ton of flavor, though. And galangal probably would, too. It'd sort of be like a tom kha gai carnitas, I guess, with those two things. Not sure how you'd incorporate the lemngrass, maybe a salsa?

[Mabelline]

I'm thinking that I can start them in the juices and tekillya, and sort of stabilize the coconut milk with palm sugar vinegar, and maybe some condensed milk, instead of the chicken broth. Then as you say, spray some on the pork while its roasting, to glaze it up. I think the condensed milk will help, and it is a Mex flavor, to me. I'm sticking with Mexican spices this time...next comes my favorite green thai curry.

Edited May 24, 2004 by Mabelline (log)

[nessa]

edit to add: nessa, I was writing this reply when you posted about using the lasagna pans. I take it that you do the whole thing in the oven. That makes a lot of sense to me. What was your oven temperature? (You may have said but I am too lazy to look. )

Yeah I did the whole thing in the oven. Its lovely, and hands off until the frying stage. Then its turn and check every 15 min or so...

I think inch cubes are on the border of too small to stay succulent. I started out with about inch and a halfish sized cubes. I used 3/4 a liter of tequila and 5 limes. I distributed that along with various and sundry spices, evenly among the three pans, then added enough water to not cover, but to come about 3/4 the way up the chunks. There certainly will be additional liquid from the pork. Its not really until the final hour or so that *all* the liquid has been absorbed or evaporated, that the fat really really starts to render. Some coumes out before, of course.

I baked at 350. The cubes shrink to about inch size I guess, I'll have to measure when I get home. I think even larger chunks would be good if you are going to do a pulled carnita kinda thing. I like to keep them small so that they fit well in a tortilla and are bite sized.

I don't know how much fat pork butt has on it, is it as much as a shoulder? I get my shoulder at the local Mexican market and theres a ton of fat and skin left on it.

I can't wait to amass a bunch of bones, roast or smoke them and make stoock.

[fifi]

And galangal probably would, too. It'd sort of be like a tom kha gai carnitas, I guess, with those two things. Not sure how you'd incorporate the lemngrass, maybe a salsa?

I forgot to mention the galangal. Yeah... tom kha gai carnitas about sums up where I am heading with that coconut glaze that I get on the chicken.

Actually, I am more concerned about the basil than I am the lemon grass. Doing Mayhaw Man's chicken pot pie called for adding basil, taragon and parsley to the stew pot when cooking the chicken. There was some flavor there but not as much as I had hoped so I ended up adding some fresh chopped to the pie before baking. So, that experience leads me to being more thoughtful about when to add those kinds of aromatic things to long simmered recipes.

Damn... this is developing into an interesting project, fraught with technique and trying to figure out how to use the ingredients to best advantage. And, hell, "Coconut Glazed Tom Kha Gai Carnitas" may be a culinary impossibility but that won't keep us from trying, will it, Mabelline?

[Mabelline]

Nay, fifi, nor munchin' it!

[ExtraMSG]

I would just add the basil at the end like you would cilantro on a taco. You could use/add mint or cilantro, if you wished. Maybe keep it "simple" and only do coconut milk, galangal, fish sauce, and lime juice in the braising liquid. Maybe some red onions or shallots. I guess you could throw in some red curry paste for a little added complexity and some heat. Then add any aromatics at the end. Maybe make a lemongrass oil or salsa or something like that. I don't know if oil would work for it either. I'd try to pare it down to the items that will actually make a difference. I imagine it will be hard enough to make a truly balanced flavor since the boiling off will change its character. You may not know what you needed more of until you're done. I imagine it will taste at least decent, though, with some room for improvement once you realize what you would have liked more of.

btw, maybe Thai carnitas "salad" or spring rolls?

Edited May 24, 2004 by ExtraMSG (log)

[mags]

Oh, should've added that this is a slightly more polite pineapple vinegar, but it is based on DK's; she got the credit for it. Not to fear, no maggots in this heathen's vinegar. I'm getting hungry enough to use some palm vinegar, anyway, and make the vinegar for next time...the ongoing carnitas!

So RECIPE for Polite Pineapple Vinegar, por favor????

[Mabelline]

So simple, it's embaressing. 1/4 c. sugar, Peel of one pineapple,scrubbed clean,water, and 1/4 c. of cider vinegar. Dissolve sugar in a qt. of water, add clean and coarsely chopped pineapple rind, add cider vinegar. Cover with a tea towel or tightly woven cheesecloth to keep maggots someplace else, and leave in room temp. After a week or so,you should see the liquid darken. Remove the peels and toss. Ferment 1-3 weeks longer,stirring or agitating every once in awhile. That's it.

[andiesenji]

So simple, it's embaressing. 1/4 c. sugar, Peel of one pineapple,scrubbed clean,water, and 1/4 c. of cider vinegar. Dissolve sugar in a qt. of water, add clean and coarsely chopped pineapple rind, add cider vinegar. Cover with a tea towel or tightly woven cheesecloth to keep maggots someplace else, and leave in room temp. After a week or so,you should see the liquid darken. Remove the peels and toss. Ferment 1-3 weeks longer,stirring or agitating every once in awhile. That's it.

The Pineapple vinegar sounds great. It also ought to make nice fresh pickles.

Speaking of different vinegars, I am partial to Coconut vinegar(suka ng niyog) which I buy at a Phillipine market in town. It is a Phillipine product and the brand is Gold Medal, marked "Export Quality". 1 liter $1.39 - Palm vinegar (sukang paombong) brand Favorite, is the same price.

They have lower acidity than most vinegars so lend themselves well to marinades when you want a smoother taste.

I also use the Thai mild sweet chile sauce (Mae Ploy brand) on the cooked carnitas for a different flavor. Instead of rolling it in a tortilla I stuff it in a pita pocket. I bake pita at least once a week because I use them instead of bread for sandwiches.

[mags]

Wow, that should be great with the Thai Carnitas. Many thanks.

[Gifted Gourmet]

I am very impressed with the photographs of the boar, andiesenji!

I have never eaten boar and this certainly looked enticing! Thanks for the visuals as well as the commentary on this dish!!

[ExtraMSG]

Gifted, if you come through Portland again, we have an Italian restaurant (Tuscany Grill) that regularly has boar on the menu. Also, Taqueria Nueve, a semi-upscale regional Mexican restaurant has a regular boar taco appetizer on their menu.

[Mabelline]

I got the pineapple vinegar started, as well as a banana and date one, too. I am the original 'can't have too many vinegars' kind of gal. For the banana-date one, I did use palm vinegar as the kicker. We'll see what happens.

andie, what's your tips for pitas? You ought to make a thread on them...I for one would be glad of any help.

[Gifted Gourmet]

Gifted, if you come through Portland again, we have an Italian restaurant (Tuscany Grill) that regularly has boar on the menu.  Also, Taqueria Nueve, a semi-upscale regional Mexican restaurant has a regular boar taco appetizer on their menu.

Look forward to visiting Portland once again this summer, Extra MSG, and I promise not to "boar" you .. but will most assuredly dine upon the delights of your town! Thanks for the "heads up" on this!

[ExtraMSG]

If you give us a heads up, I can get you a special dinner going one night, probably, with the PortlandFood people. So keep us aprised, if you're interested.

btw, if you haven't checked it out, you can get a run down of our last one, which relates to this thread a bit. We hit my 4 favorite taqueria-level Mexican places around the metro area in 4 distinct taqueria neighborhoods in the suburbs (where most of the Mexican population is). Included were some of the best carnitas anywhere.

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=28435

Edited May 25, 2004 by ExtraMSG (log)

[andiesenji]

andie, what's your tips for pitas? You ought to make a thread on them...I for one would be glad of any help.

I will have to figure measurements and times and write down my recipe.

I have been making them for so many years it is automatic and I don't need to refer to a recipe.

I have a bowl in which I mix the dough and I just put flour in to the usual level then add the other ingredients.

I will measure and time as I make up a batch tonight.

[Mabelline]

Many thanks! Though I used to buy mine from Smith's, WallyWorld chased them outta town, so I am digging in my heels and making some!

[andiesenji]

Many thanks! Though I used to buy mine from Smith's, WallyWorld chased them outta town, so I am digging in my heels and making some!

Once you find out how easy it is to make them you won't go back to the commercial ones.

Here is my recipe:

Pita Bread

2-1/2 cups unbleached bread flour

1 cup whole wheat flour

1 teaspoon kosher salt

2 teaspoons rapid-rise or "instant" yeast

2 tablespoons oil, olive or canola or grape seed.

1-1/4 cups water room temp.

Measure the flour (unsifted) into a large bowl.

add the salt, yeast and oil.

Make a "well" in the center of the flour and pour in the water.

Using your hands, bring the flour into the water and continue mixing until a ball of dough is formed.

Turn out onto a floured board and knead for about 15 minutes.

(If you have a mixer that has a dough hook you can place all ingredients into the mixing bowl, blend until ingredients form a ball then continue mixing for about 10 minutes with the mixer set on lowest speed.)

The dough should feel silky and soft but not flabby, when a thumb is pressed into the dough it should fill in quickly.

Spray the inside of a large Zip-lok bag with Pam or similar oil spray.

Place the dough ball into the bag and seal.

Set aside to rise until it has doubled in size.

At normal room temp this should be about an hour to an hour and a half.

Turn the dough out onto the floured board, knead 3 or 4 times then stretch into a fat cylinder.

Cut in half, then cut the halves in half, and so on, so that you end up with 8 pieces of dough.

Roll the pieces into balls and press flat into a disk.

Spray a sheet of plastic wrap with oil, place disks on it then cover with another sheet of plastic wrap. Set aside to rest for about 20 minutes.

Meanwhile preheat oven to 475 degrees, F.

Using a rolling pin, flatten the disks on a lightly floured board and roll into about a 6-inch circle.

They should be about 1/4 inch thick or slightly less.

If you have a baking stone you can bake the pita directly on it, mist the stone with water before placing the pita on the hot stone then mist the pita.

Otherwise, place the pita on a lightly oiled baking sheet and place on center shelf in oven.

Mist the pita and close the oven door.

Watch closely. In about 3-4 minutes the pita will have blown up like a baloon and are done. They should not brown, but might show a little color around the edges.

Immediately remove them from the oven and transfer to a rack to cool.

Depending on the size of your oven you should be able to bake 3 or 4 at a time.

You have to leave room above the pita for them to expand.

To reheat, fold into a kitchen towel and heat in microwave for 30 seconds.

[ScooterQ]

Jaymes,

Did the carnitas on Sunday and they were sooooo delicious. Thank you so much for sharing the recipe. The hog that gave his life for our dinner did not die in vain . . . .

[Jaymes]

Sorta surprised that some folks had a hard time getting the liquid to boil down. I usually use a Dutch oven or other large pan for that stage, and do only partially cover. I kinda watch it to be certain that the fire is hot enough for the liquid to be steadily evaporating and make adjustments as I go.

So, don't really have any advice, other than that. Sorry.

[ExtraMSG]

How packed together is the meat, Jaymes. If there was more meat, that would mean there was less water (per lb of meat). I had the water just to the top of the meat when I tried it. But I would say I had about 60% of the pan covered with meat. I also kept it at a simmer, would you say it's more of a light boil when you do it?

[Jaymes]

You know, this is just one of those things I've been doing for so long that I basically "wing it" without really considering measurents, etc. The last time, I tried to pay more attention because I knew I was going to post about it. I used 2 lbs of cubed pork shoulder in a Dutch oven. I used the approximate measurements of juices and tequila (along with the chiles and herbs) that I gave a little earlier in the thread. I poured in chicken broth just to cover the meat. I did watch the liquid and sometimes it was at the simmer, but sometimes brought it to a boil if I thought I needed to hurry it along a little. The meat was packed into the Dutch oven fairly tightly, in one layer.

When the liquid was gone and only the fat remained, I scraped it into a lasagna pan and crisped it in a hot oven.

PS -- Am going to start a thread about chicken enchiladas, and I hope everyone will contribute. I'm always looking for new ideas.

Edited May 26, 2004 by Jaymes (log)

[ExtraMSG]

That would explain why mine took longer since you probably have half the water I do. I'll try again when I get back from vacation.

[fifi]

Thanks, Jaymes... Your notes are helpful. I used my really big Le Creuset (that I normally use for a double batch of gumbo, can't remember how big but it is at the limits of what I am willing to lift) and I had a single layer of meat and it was just covered with the liquid. I was trying to simmer slow... possibly too slow. I think I am beginning to understand this technique and will try again in a couple of weeks. (I am also questioning the quality of the pork I got.)

[ExtraMSG]

I was thinking about this before I went on vacation, but I'm not sure if anyone already suggested it. Anyway...

Modifying Jaymes's method, I'd be interested to hear what people could do with a pressure cooker. You should be able to get very quick tender meat and good flavor penetration. You'd probably have to fry the meat in a separate pan with some lard afterwards, however. since the liquid wouldn't cook off. I wonder if you could cut down the carnitas time to 15-30 minutes in this way.