Houston Wine Bars...1 in particular...

[Morgan_Weber]

In the last two or three years, it seems like wine bars have been popping up all over Houston. At first, I thought this was a really great thing—getting to sample a lot of different wines-by-the-glass for pretty reasonable prices. Recently though, in my humble opinion, they have become commercialized and gimmicky.

After reading all the hype about Max’s Wine Dive (Corner of Shepherd & Washington), we decided to drop in one night and see what it was like. Maybe I just didn’t get it, or maybe it just wasn’t for me, but it seemed like they were trying WAY too hard to be laid back about wine. I should have seen the red flags when I checked out their website and I should have known that a place that calls itself a ‘dive’ probably isn’t one at all. After looking over the menu and wine list, I felt like their mission was to take wonderful ingredients and marry them with everyday foods that most people grew up on…ie. Foie Gras on a Peanut Butter & Jelly Sandwich. I love foie just as much as the next guy, but come on… Some of the “catch phrases” that we saw on shirts that the staff wore, spoke of “haute dogs & shiraz”, “kobe & cabernet”, and my personal favorite read something like, “fried chicken & champagne…why the hell not?”. Some of their wine descriptions had phrases after the wine style that said, “…like putting on a really comfy pair of jammy’s”. What?!?!?!

Don’t misunderstand me, I hate wine pretension. I hate walking into a tasting room at a winery, or speaking to a sommelier in a restaurant, or ordering wine in a wine bar, and dealing with people that are stuck on the culture and snobbiness that is often associated with wine and wine education. My question is, could this be taking it too far? Is the gimmicky aspect of Max’s for shock value? It is a popular place—they’re slammed almost every night it seems. A lot of people rave about their food on B4-U-Eat. Am I just missing something? I would love to know if some other folks on here have an opinion on this or even care about it.

What is it that you look for or would like to see in a good wine bar?

[tetsujustin]

Having been more than a few times I think Max's started with a good concept, but with how the place has been presented, the place has been turned into a bar more than a wine bar. There's been girls dancing on top of the bars, shoot and miss service, the food can be good at times, but the whole place has turned into a place to go get drunk rather than to enjoy food and wine. I think that has its place, but I'm not sure that's what the owners were thinking of when they started the place (I think they originally wanted it to be a sort of a Texas-version of Au Pied de Cochon in Quebec) If you want to go to a place that's loud, filled with scantly clad women and drunken cooks/chefs, this is the place for you. Some days it's a cool place to hang out, some days you just want to sit down, talk with friends, and enjoy a really good glass of wine. Maybe some cheese or a pizza or something

If you want that, I'd suggest Cova (the one on washington, not kirby) which has a really great selection of wines, decent food, and it's not bar-like. Or Sonoma, which is on Richmond between kirby and eastside which is my current favorite. The staff is really nice, they know their stuff. The wine list isn't extensive like Cova (which also doubles as a retail store so if you pick a bottle, you get charged a corkage), but it's well selected, no gimmicks attached. On Saturdays they have live music, but otherwise it stays at a medium hum.

I've also been to the tasting room in midtown and the corkscrew on washington. Decent places, I like the selection at Sonoma/Cova better though.

[Morgan_Weber]

I agree, Cova is probably one of my favorites. I'm usually surprised by some of the small boutique California wines they get in on occassion. The atmosphere is nice and the food is pretty good. I like that Monsterville Horton is concerned about wine education and thoughtfully presents a well selected wine list.

As far as The Tasting Room goes (I believe they own Max's), I like the atmosphere and the concept--being able to choose any bottle, which they'll open for a two glass commitment. Most of the bottles that they have in their main room are all $30 or under. I think that is a good bottle price range for a wine bar that doesn't mainly focus on retail. Even with a corkage fee, one should still be able to drink good wine for $30-$40 a bottle. Unfortunately, The Tasting Room's wine list could be better. I'm never really blown away by the selections that they have.

Haven't been to Sonoma, but you've peaked my interest...I'll have to drop by.

I always thought that a wine bar that really paid attention to their food selections would be awesome. How many times have you been somewhere and ordered a cheese plate and they bring out three or four selections of cheese, one of which goes well with the wine you chose? I don't think it is impossible to have a large cheese selection available that pairs nicely with all sorts of wine. Throw out the old tale of hard cheeses with red wine and soft cheeses with white. Ever had a stinky epoisse with pinot?...mmmmmmmm. It just takes the knowledge and diligence.

[tetsujustin]

I always thought that a wine bar that really paid attention to their food selections would be awesome.  How many times have you been somewhere and ordered a cheese plate and they bring out three or four selections of cheese, one of which goes well with the wine you chose?  I don't think it is impossible to have a large cheese selection available that pairs nicely with all sorts of wine.  Throw out the old tale of hard cheeses with red wine and soft cheeses with white.  Ever had a stinky epoisse with pinot?...mmmmmmmm.  It just takes the knowledge and diligence.

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You're right. I have a favorite of one of those. Unfortunately, it's in Chicago. I wish there was an Avec here.

Sonoma has a program where basically everything is open. I believe there's only four or five bottles I think? That aren't open on a normal basis. Which means by the glass. is. pretty huge.

I wish they had less California though. There is an Inheiritence Petite Syrah that I absolutely love. Also there's a Pierre Armendieu Chateauneuf du pape that's fantastic as well.

I like that place.

I hear down the grapevine (no pun intended) that there might be a food forward wine bar being opened by a "big player" being opened in the suburbs sometime either late this year or early next.

[jscarbor]

Well, I'm hitting Max's this friday with a group of people. I'm sure it will be a madhouse but I want to give it a try. I hope there are some good sounding specials that night because right now I cannot get jazzed about any of the entree's. Maybe I just eat some appetizers? order some fries, mussels, and tartar?

I'll let you folks know what happens.

[Morgan_Weber]

...the fries were actually pretty tasty. Let me know how it went for you.

[tetsujustin]

yeah the fries are pretty good. The oyster nachos aren't bad either. All the entrees I've had were really expensive and underwhelming.

[jscarbor]

Well we went last night and had a good time and the food was pretty good for what it is. I have to say that this place likes to fry stuff and they do a pretty good job at it for the most part. First were the oysters which were fried nicely and served on a greasy wonton with aoili. I think some habenero was supposed to be on them but I didn't detect any. Next was an abomination of the texas classic corn dog but instead of a hot dog it was a lamb chop? This was pretty nasty just too rich and too greasy. There was a quail dish that was good served with a really nice stuffing. The fries were very good as well. I split the burger with my wife and again, lots of grease but it was a very good burger.

At the end of the night the manager came over and I told him I was pleasantly surprised and he acted like that was a miracle, how could anyone not like the food? I told him it was a compliment and he walked away.

I'd hang here again and eat fried food and drink decent wine.

[neverfull]

FYI, i just heard jonathan jones, the chef from max's, is leaving. i can't remember the restaurant that he is moving to but it is a chain restaurant outside the loop. the woodlands, maybe? sorry, i already had a little too much to drink when i got this bit of news and i knew i would never be going there.

i was very sad to hear this as max's is one of my favorite places to eat. i consider max's much more of a restaurant than wine bar. after all, there are more people eating there, than just drinking wine. not only that, but when you are sitting at the bar not eating, you feel like you should be as you notice all the gourmet comfort food coming out of the open kitchen.

i know this is an old thread, but have you guys checked out 13 celsius on the corner of anita and san jac?

[tetsujustin]

FYI, i just heard jonathan jones, the chef from max's, is leaving.  i can't remember the restaurant that he is moving to but it is a chain restaurant outside the loop.  the woodlands, maybe?  sorry, i already had a little too much to drink when i got this bit of news and i knew i would never be going there.

i was very sad to hear this as max's is one of my favorite places to eat.  i consider max's much more of a restaurant than wine bar.  after all, there are more people eating there, than just drinking wine.  not only that, but when you are sitting at the bar not eating, you feel like you should be as you notice all the gourmet comfort food coming out of the open kitchen.

i know this is an old thread, but have you guys checked out 13 celsius on the corner of anita and san jac?

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Yeah, he's moving to a cordua restaurant I believe, opening in the woodlands. I think an Americas. They hired a new chef over the last few weeks or month or so. He was the chef at Bice I believe.

I went to 13 celsius last week, and it's now my new favorite wine bar. Well selected wines, a Berkel handcranked slicer for charcuterie, and the fact that they may be the only friggin place in houston that doesn't serve their red wines at room temperature. (they have a temperature controlled cellar/room behind the bar to grab bottles.

A little on the pricey side, and if you're big on Californian wines, big, bad, fruit bombs, etc. This probably won't be your place. Otherwise, except for the decor which I find a little *too* barren, it's a great place.

Plus it has couches.

[Morgan_Weber]

FYI, i just heard jonathan jones, the chef from max's, is leaving. 

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...and the fact that they may be the only friggin place in houston that doesn't serve their red wines at room temperature. (they have a temperature controlled cellar/room behind the bar to grab bottles.

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Ok, that is awesome! I hate hot, red wine.

We dropped by The Tasting Room Uptown yesterday evening. I've come to the conclusion that as many people like it, its just not for me. I'm happy that they're doing incredible business though.

Will try 13 celcius soon. Thanks for the update.

[jscarbor]

I like 13 degrees a lot. Probably my favorite wine bar.

[neverfull]

i'm glad you agree that 13 celsius is great. i like the sparse, loft-like decor, the lack of a pretentious scene, and it is never jammed packed full of people. i feel comfortable walking in in jeans or in a gown before a gala. i've been visting since february and ian is doing a great job with the place. this is a good spot to relax with a few friends on the sofas and easily have a conversation. i like to come here on a tue or wed night. but i agree, a little pricey.

although they are lacking a true food menu, the cheese plate is not to be missed. the sottocenere (sp?), italian cheese with truffles is excellent. i buy it from WF all the time now.

when i want something more energetic, i head to ibiza lounge, the wine bar next door to ibiza. great prices ($22 for a bottle of cava or prosecco). a dark, sexier bar, it's always either packed in there or empty. the crowd is inconsistent -- sometimes lots of suits, sometimes people who looked like they accidentally stumbled across the place, sometimes true party types. this place is just gorgeous inside. reminds me of going out in manhattan. overall, great value for the wine and the ambience.

have you been to 3rd bar at reef yet? it's the bar on the other side of reef restaurant. the wine list is exceptional and at such a low mark-up (i had a bottle of turley cab for $75). the cocktails are pricey. it's a large, spacious open bar, but the atmosphere is missing something. it's a shame b/c the restaurant proper is so gorgeous. maybe it's the half empty shelves they have behind the bar that turn me off. but the bar menu is great (snapper carpaccio, beef sliders, fries w/sriracha mayo) and is served until midnight or 2 am depending on the night.

[Doug Fordyce]

Honestly, my favorite wine bars are Catalan, Ibiza & Reef. Take 4 people and get 2 bottles. Retail +$6 + great selections. No need for dinner just appetizers....

Also SoVino is fun - good list and a lot less crowded than others.

Am a fan of Cova and 13 Celsius, too - just want as many choices as possible!