Bux

I was surprised that even after Otto was mentioned in the first post, it took so long for someone to suggest "house made" ice cream in a top restaurant was likely to be better than home made or store bought. Is it beaten by small dedicated shops? I don't know. Il Laboratorio del Gelato supplies several restaurants in NYC. Have you had it served at any of them? I wonder if it comes closer to what's scooped at Il Lavoratorio, or suffers from time in the freeze.

So why is that funny? It shows a lack of knowledge sure, but ignorance is not of itself amusing. Ignorance is not if itself amusing, but it becomes amusing when it's the basis for over reaching. It's always amusing when a novice seeks a quick answer, but it's funnier yet when he feigns some knowledge by dropping two names out of context. I suppose "zinfandel" will be a part of too many "overheards." Here's my recent "overheard in a wine shop." Customer: I'm looking for _ zinfandel. (Can't remember if he specified a brand.) Salesman: They're over there. Go straight and make a left at the first rack. Customer: (With a quizzical look on his face) Those are red wines there. Salesman: (Short silence before a polite response.)

It sounds as if you approach creative food with a skeptical, but open mind. Too many diners, those who take food too seriously as well as those who don't take it seriously enough for my taste, are either too skeptical to allow themselves the opportunity to enjoy playfulness or theatricality of some chefs work, or are too quick to jump on the bad wagon of the latest hot chef. The lack of prejudices displayed in your post is remarkably refreshing in a report that is nonetheless quite a personal response to the food and the evening. We do get to share your excitement at being there. I'm reminded a bit of Stephen Jackson's reaction to his meal at Marc Veyrat. Have you read that? I think you will enjoy it.

I hope she wasn't pained because she realized she put the salad dressing on your steak instead of the béarnaise. "Clearly" this wasn't a sauce based on béchamel, veloute, cream or tomatoes, nor does it seem as if it was any sort of a brown sauce. I'm not convinced it's not a béarnaise sauce although it doesn't sound as if there were egg yolks in it. It almost sounds as if it was closer to the green sauce one might get in Spain with grilled meat. There must be a classic French equivalent, but it doesn't come to mind.

Chowder Dinner menu. $75 + 8.65% tax + 20% gratuity includes Brooklyn Beer and spiked pink lemonade. Prepaid. Flatware optional.

I'm not an expert either, but when my mom and my aunt give me expensive ones, they always tout how large they are. So, I've just assumed that the larger ones are more precious. That too. Apparently size does count, but I've noted that the chrysanthemum ones (with the pretty pattern of grooves on the cap) are usually more expensive than the plain ones.

Not to speak for fifi but I believe what was being spoken of is buying them at Whole Foods etc rather than at Asian markets. Many things are less expensive at ethnic markets, but I'm amazed at the range of prices for dried mushrooms at the same market in Chinatown. Clearly I'm not an expert on dried mushrooms, or I'd understand the factors driving the differences in price.

A lot depends on the price you have to pay. When we were in the salt flats of Guerande in Brittany, we were able to buy kilo bags of sel grise for what seemed like not much more than kosher salt at the supermarket. You have to watch the overweight on the plane coming back though. A small package is mighty heavy. I still don't use it to boil water. The low cost of getting to the supermarket is a major factor.

Interesting question and not sure we're at a point where I can give an accurate answer. We're eating out far more than we ever did, although much of it is still at very inexpensive restaurants such as in Chinatown. When my father retired and my parents moved to Manhattan years ago, my mother all but stopped cooking at home. My wife and I couldn't understand it. Now we are beginning to understand. By the way, we are in NYC. This should be noted for statistical purposes.

I'll saw off that limb. Fleur de sel's clean crunch is glorious for steak and lamb. Hawaiin pink salt is a great garnish. Brittany grey salt really does have a distinctive "sulfury" taste. I like to think that Breton salt has a distinctive flavor, but I've not sat down and done a taste test. I suppose I should try it straight, as brine and in a nice chicken stock. Fleur de sel has a great crunch and even more important, it has a crystaline structure that causes it to really stick, or hook, to food so more of the crunch goes to your mouth with the food instead of falling on the plate. I think expensive salts are worth the price when used appropriately. Way back on this site however, I questioned the use of fleur de sel in solutions. I don't think it has a distinctive taste when dissolved. I believe the discussion revolved about Pierre Herme's macarons au caramel au fleur de sel. The consensus was that it probably didn't add that much to the final cost per macaron, but that it was an affectation -- any sea salt would have done as well. On the other hand, not using gold leaf on his chocolates would have no detrimental effect on their taste either. Gold leaf has no flavor, but I've seen it used as a garnish by many a chef. Of course if conspicuous consumption is the goal, a cheaper product just won't work.

My immediate reaction to the topic is that spicey foods seem to stimulate my appetite, but there is something about Indian food, or at least Indian food as experienced by a broad American audience, that says "hot" or "warm" to most of us and we look for "cool" in the summer. How one reacts to the weather may be different in tropical climates than it is in temperate ones. I wonder how Mexican restaurants in the northern pars of the US fare duing the various seasons. Although I may react differently, many people may well associate the "hot" spices as winter food. In addition I think most people think of Indian food as long simmered. The idea of the pot simmering on the stove just says winter to us, even when we're not the ones tending the stove. Many Americans long for salads in the summer because they're cold dishes and because the produce that goes into a salad is either available fresh or at its peak of flavor and doesn't benefit from simmering with seasonings. BBhasin, although I don't agree with your patrons, let me ask if your menu changes with the seasons. My guess is that if in April, your patrons were aware that the menu would drastically change in June or July, they would make it a point of trying the summer menu. I know so little about Indian food that I'd scarcely be the one to suggest what changes to make in the menu, but I'd look for fresh salads, greens that were not long cooked, grilled meats. It's quite possible that it might not be what Indians in India would eat in the hottest season. You wouldn't have to change the whole menu. You just need enough dishes to draw in those want something different in the summer and to break their habit of staying away. Don't forget that when four people are planning on a restaurant, it only takes one to say no. If you attract a few, you may get many.

I think a distinction has to be made between expensive ingredients that offer little bang for the buck and ingredients that are just cheaper in some stores than others. Of course the same brand of canned goods is just as good no matter the cost or the name on the shopping bag you get to carry it home -- assuming it's not outdated or damaged. When it comes to fresh produce, whether it's home grown or not, there's often little relationship between price and quality and generally speaking, you need to select it yourself. Home grown vegetables are a better bargain, if you don't have to count your time spent gardening, not to mention all the peripheral expenses. We used to grow tomatoes on our roof in NYC. They were great, but generally speaking not any better than the ones we can buy at the height of the season at the Union Square Greenmarket about a mile away. We gave up the tomatoes. The garden looks nicer with flowers and we get some excercise every Saturday in season. We still grow raspberries and blueberries.

Fry pan, skillet, sautee pan, etc. -- there is no "best," especially if one deosn't specify how it's used. The problem with cast iron, which we use for many things, is that it's very reactive and I wouldn't want to deglaze with white wine or make many sauces in it.

I'm even willing to consider our endeavor to speak French to be little more than an affectation, but it allows me to enjoy myself a bit more at times. In a way, I feel I'm lucky to have been introduced to France via considerably less than plush hotels and restaurants where no one spoke English. The rewards for making myself understood were a warm bed and warm food. I associate that communication with the simple pleasures of life in France, that I hold on to. Of course over the years I've held it as a sign that separates me from the tourist. The tourist is always a bit clueless, the traveler is not. The French are both a formal and a reserved people and there's a clubiness about traveling there. What others see as cold indifference, I see as a reserve that rewards the effort one makes to get closer. My earliest contacts with the French as a student and again as a budget traveling newly wed were remarkably warm and friendly.

Even in the outdoor markets in France, I've seen cooked beets for sale. Beet salad is easy as tomato salad.

I believe the law requires all restaurants to clearly post the menu, with prices, in front of the restaurant. I see it done from time to time in New York, but rarely at a "fine" restaurant. Nevertheless, I can think of popularly priced French restaurants that post the menu here.

I've had dry muscats from Alsace as well as the Bas Languedoc (Pays d'Oc. I'm trying to think where else I've seen them from. I'm drawing a blank, but it may have been Spain.

Good and bad are subjective. What are your standards? If there's nothing bad about the food, there's nothing good about it either and that's bad. There may be no negative factor, but the food can still be a zero to some. I'm at a loss here as I've never been to an Olive Garden and I'd owe both you and them that much if I had to make critical comments. My point here is solely that I've heard nothing positive enough to arouse my curiosity enough to spend my dime there. We all eat because we need nourishment. Many of us eat on limited budgets. These are relative things and I have more money than I did when I was just out of school, so I will assume my budget is much larger than yours is now. However I need to ask how much a meal costs at OG and is it good value. Value is also relative. I'm lucky, not in that I have a large food budget, but that I'm in NYC. I can eat in Chinatown. I suspect the food is far more interesting, cooked with great skill and probably less expensive than at OG. Tommy's already mentioned the local diverse and inexpensive ethnic restaurants. Matthew has the other alternative. Eat at home. For the first 20 years of my married life, we rarely ate at a restaurant that wasn't less than moderately priced. We could cook a lavish dinner for six or eight for what it might cost the two of us to eat fairly well and that was how we spent our money. Okay, people often eat just to stave off hunger. What is there to talk about here? Why should we talk about food that isn't serious? What can we say about it. Once again, we're not talking about food that's humorous. Ferran Adria does some really humorous stuff. Read a recent post about dinner at Marc Veyrat in the France board. There was some humorous food that night. This was food worth talking about. I'm not saying don't eat at OG. I'm not even saying don't talk about it, I'm asking what you can say about it. Be forewarned that most of what's done in the best kitchens, those that are turning out the most exciting food, is repetitive work and in itself, not very interesting when done day after day. I have no problem with Chinese food. It's one of my favorite foods, however I also think it's one that doesn't lend itself to take out very well. Nothing sufferes so much in a container as stir fried food. Unfortuantely most Chinese restaurants in the US are so bad, it doesn't matter. They may be worse than OG. I don't know.

Matthew is trying to tell you something about freshness.

You're fired.

Perhaps I should first ask if you're complaining about people's rudeness, or asking for an explanation of why they laugh. I think it's rude to laugh at other people's choices, be they restaurants, clothing or mates. Nevertheless, people being who and what they are, it's going to happen. Let's say we were in an English class, -- maybe the better comparison is made with an honors class in English -- and the teacher started a discussion with the students about the books they may have read over the summer. The first person who mentions reading a Reader's Digest version of a novel is going to illicit a giggle or two. People who take food seriously, are not likely to take the Olive Garden food seriously in culinary terms. That's not to say it's wrong to enjoy eating there, but it's hard to make a good argument that the standards are high there. Most people who take food seriously really want and expect a lot more from a restaurant than just not getting sick and they're prepared to wait for it. Moreover, they expect to linger over food worth talking about. My question about Olive Garden is what can you say about it other than it fills you up without waiting and didn't make you sick? Where does the conversation go from there. I know you are a culinary student and have expressed interest in cooking at a place such as Tru someday. Why is that more interesting than cooking in a Ruby Tuesday or a Olive Garden? I really hope you were asking for insight into more interesting food and that you find some of that here, if not in school.

I eat what I like without undue prejudice, but surely we all make qualifications in choosing where to eat and what to eat as well as what books to read. Why would it suprise you that those who are obsessed with good food might place Cheesecake facotry far down on the list of places they'd choose? Moreover, why does it get on your nerves that some people "absolutely" refuse to eat at Cheesecake Factory? I'm assuming we're both using absolute in a relative sense. I don't believe anyone would actually starve to death rather than eat at a Cheesecake Factory, although if the one hour wait is true, then it wouldn't be an issue. I assume I wouldn't last another hour if I was starving to death. What Fyre said in the opening post convices me I woudn't be very pleased with the food. It really doesn't matter where I ate as a child. It matters far less is that a majority of people have kids. How would that affect which restaurant I choose? The most interesting thing in your post, and I'm not trying to be confrontational, is that somehow in gets on your nerves that some people absolutely choose not to go to restaurants that you describe as targeted to people who "have watered-down simple tastes and un-sophisticated taste buds, and succumb to marketing and hype." These people don't get on my nerves, I just don't choose to eat where they choose to eat for what should be obvious reasons and it has nothing to do with whose name is on the door. It has to do with food that appeals to watered down tastes and usophisticated taste buds. I'm a practical, less successful person who needs to be sure I spend my money on food that provides enjoyment to me.

Unfortunately for Mario Sandoval perhaps, but I'm not sure local population with strong conservative, but well educated, palates isn't as helpful to the success of creative food as a market driving by diners looking for the latest fads. It may be that I've seen too many untrained cooks rise to "critical" and financial success on poorly conceived "fusion food," and that I'm less aware of unrewarded talent. I am aware that Gagnaire had to move to Paris. Provincial cites may be a tough audience for creativity and invention. New York of course, is a wonderful place to find an audience for improvisation. Perhaps it's no coincidence that we passed a new Cuban restaurant (actually a place that seems geared to take out and halfway between a snack bar and inexpensive restaurant) that features "Create your own Paella." Trust me, you don't want to read the list of possible ingredients any more than a Neopolitan wants to know what might be found on an American "pizza."

That's a double edged sword. While they preserve the architecture of the town and scale of the buildings for those who are driving through by car, they also deaden the life of many small villages by eliminating the reason for people to live or congregate in them. I remember looking at a rental property in the southwest of France. It was my wife's idea that we should "live" somewhere in France rather than tour and stay in hotels. I was reluctant to give up the starred chefs, but she was excited about the raw products and the chance to eat the food we don't find in restaurants and inns. Part of her argument was that I could hang out at the local cafe/bar and improve my French. The rental property was owned by a charming English woman. She and her French boyfriend lived in the main house and would have been nice neighbors. Unfortunately, the towns fold all shopped in the shopping center which they drove to and since the local shops had all closed, the local bar was only open sporadically. That killed my interest.

Sorry I missed this earlier. I think Fat Guy got here first with the most to say the first time around. At this stage there may be little to add and I assume Grant isn't looking for a consensus, but for perspectives on this issue so he can formulate his own solution. In many parts of the world, bread is not a part of the meal. In a Chinese meal, rice is the neutral starch one can use to clean the palate. On the other hand, in a traditional Japanese meal, white rice is not eaten until the end of the meal. Bread is a traditional accompaniment to traditional western European meals. I have not been to Trio, but it does not appear to be dedicated to reproducing the traditions of its diners. It has already isolated itself from the main body of traditional cooking and seems to have sufficient following to continue to innovate with some assurance that diners will not rebel over rolls. I love bread and eat too much of it. I look forward to bread in great restaurants, but also ruin my appetite on great bread. I am well aware that a is not necessarily good value for my money when I can't finish my last course or have dessert, no matter how outstanding the bread. I get by in all sorts of Asian restaurants without bread. I could do it in a French restaurant or an Italian restaurant and I'm sure I could do it in Trio. My first thought was similar to one of Fat Guy's. Some wafers or crisps as part of the amuses. It seems to me I've already had that in several top restaurants in France and Spain as well as Ducassse here in NY. The early criticisms of AD/NY were by those who were clueless in terms or culinary experience. My second thought on reading Grant's messages was that it's common enough to present a special bread with a course such as toast, or brioche toast with foie gras and nut bread with cheese. It should be easy enough to work bread into the meal as a limited, but integral part. Let me add that as a member of this community, I'm personally flattered that Grant is asking for our thoughts on the subject. We should all be pleased by this. I hope we're as helpful in provoking his thoughts and prodding his creativity as he'd hope we would be. Rosie, it's interesting to read that restaurants in Australia and New Zealand offer bread as an a la carte option. In Spain, many restaurants charge for bread, but I feel it's a cover charge rather than a charge for what you eat in most cases. Two generations ago, it was common in France to charge for bread and tablecloth -- literally bread and cover, which is the origin of cover charge, I believe.