Bux

I've not been there, but my guess is that its nostalgia rating is higher than its food rating these days. Michelin notes it was founded in 1725 and may be the oldest restaurant in the world, but there are no stars and no mentiojn of the food. The Spanish Campsa guide is more positive noting is as "recommended -- a level below one, two or three "sols" however. Botín has been mentioned on eGullet. My wife was there, albeit many years ago, and thought the roast pork was not so moist or recommendable that day. I suspect it deserves it's reputation as "a great restaurant" as long as it's noted that it's a historical reference and not a gastromical one. I agree with Eric and think it's hard to imagine it as the greatest restaurant in Spain or even in Madrid.

I am usually in the minority. Those members who usually find themselves in the majority, should take fair warning about heeding any of my advice and recommendations. I am passionionate about dining, but rather enjoy the outrageous avant garde as well as the traditional, assuming they are both done well. "Done well" is a bit more difficult to define in terms of creative cuisine as it necessitates risk. Risk necessitates a chance of failure, and such chance guarantees a certain inevitable failure at some stage. The ultimate failure at the avant garde end -- that of a evening spent wonder why each course was so unpleasant -- is intolerable, but so is a level of perfection of banal cuisine. I wouldn't find Pacaud's cuisine banal. It would be interesting however, to put our fingers on the reasons why we find perfection of such conservative cuisine anything but banal. Paqcaud's cuisine has an edge that makes it three star food for me. It may not be my first choice, at least not often and I don't eat three star meals all that often in the first place, but it's superb food. Still, it's probably not the best recommendation for everyone and I think your point, assuming that was your point, that it takes some effort on the diner's part to fully appreciate the food, is worth noting. To some extent, I think this is true about all great restaurants, even those whose food hits you over the head, are not fully appreciated by many who are nevertheless wowed. However, it's particularly true for a restaurant whose forté is finesse.

Yes, but misery likes company. Now at least you can be sure we share your disappointment at not being there.

I'd be happy to read whatever you post. It's been a while since I've been anywhere near the Riviera. While I enjoyed the area when I traveled there on a budget as a student in our newlywed days, we've not returned often. I found the whole area much too over developed, but I suppose that's true all over. Mostly, we haven't returned recently because we have friends in the northwest and southwest of France and because Spain now calls as much as France. Thus, I won't have much to add and am not likely to have the chance to eat at the Moulin de Mougins, but I'd love to hear what you have to say about it. Bear in mind that we have far more lurkers than we have posters, as does any discussion board and that anything you write will serve a larger audience than is apparent.

I don't know about smart, but it would be the right thing to do.

Not including tax and tip? Even USC could be included.

If we're going to go this route, and it's not one I'd recommend because it's a pointless question with a pointless answer in my opinion, but as I said, if you're asking, the question is "Spain vs. Italy - which country makes the better wine?" I think most criteria would place France securely in number one position, for all anyone should care when selecting a bottle of wine. I'm more surprised the quality of Spanish wines would even become an issue after four meals in a very remote corner of the country, not to mention one known for it's whites. Much like questioning the quality of pinot noir after a weekend in Alsace. I would have expected any interest in wine to lead a visitor to Galica to explore the Albariños, although I've had a few Godellos worth knowing as well. I think Spain is a fascinating place in terms of wine these days and that's more important than being first, second or third best. Then again so are Italy and France. Hell, I wish I knew more about Austrian wines, but fortunately there are a few restaurant sommeliers who seem to know enough to recommend good bargains on strange lists. Come to think of it, the prize wines at the top are not going to have much effect on my drinking habits anyway. By the way, it's never been established what standards we're using to compare Italy and Spain. Which is best by virtue of making the best wine, having the best average wine, producing the most varied wines, not having the worst wine, or what?

Two cents from a non-baker. I realize "macaroon" seems to be the accepted English translation of the French "macaron," but I find the French macaron so different from the coconut macaroon that I think it's often misleading not to adopt the French spelling for that cookie to distinguish it from the macaroon. For what it's worth, Dorie Greenspan, co-author of Desserrts by Pierre Herme and Chocolate Desserts by Pierre Herme says (in her Paris Sweets cookbook) I've posted that not to dissuade you from trying to make your own professional quality macarons even though excellent ones are available in NYC, if not all over America, but just to remind you of how hard they are to get right--hard enough that Dorie didn't include a recipe in Paris Sweets, just a reminder to try them when in Paris. Of course we are looking forward to saying "I always get my macarons from Bond Girl."

ZARAGOZA MEXICAN DELI AND GROCERY 215 Avenue A, near 14th Street, East Village, 212-780-9204 Full list.

I suspect it's the creative staff at NBC. Maybe one of them just got a bright idea for a reality show based on an Internet discussion board. Too bad they didn't think of it when sit coms were the rage.

You raise a good point and it's a complex issue. My point was only to say that there exist in NY places that offer good food and good service. Price is always a valid point. Most of the time, most of us eat out, we set a price point at which we'd like to eat. We'll frequently be willing to eat for less, but rarely willing to pay more. So, the issue I see is how we weigh the value of the food vs. the rest of what goes into the evening. At almost every price point, I've know people who will put up with surly service for the quality of the food. That goes for dives in Chinatown where the price can't be beat and the food is excellent and it also goes for places like the uptown delis famous for pastrami and for Peter Lugar. In fact sometimes it seems like putting up with the service is the draw since those delis are not all that great. As for settling for less than you have to, I guess I feel there's a restaurant at every price range that supplies good food without attitude. Perhaps my problem is that I don't run into attitude all that often and when I do, I don't really care as long as it doesn't interfere with my food. If the foods are equal, I'll return to the restaurant that treats me best. That's why it's strange to find attitude in places where the food is not special. Maybe it's inexplicable, but I actually find less attitude where the food is really special. People with attitude have to eat and need jobs. I'm just happy to run into them where they have little affect on my life. There's little a host or maitre d' can do to ruin my meal if I don't let him. I worry when I run into traffic court judges with an attitude and guys in bureaucracies. They can really ruin my day.

price? additionally, anyone who has dined in NYC a decent amount of times and not come across "attitude", at least the kind that i'm understanding is objectionable to thereuare, is probably pretty lucky. Price? More expensive than Triangolo. Appetizers around $12 and main courses around $28. I didn't mean to compare the two as in the same price range. I just meant to say that one should not have to settle for less than excellent food just to avoid attitude. In fact, I suspect more diners find attitude at the expensive places rather than the inexpensive ones.

Perhaps it's time for my two cents and a reminder that there's no accounting for personal taste -- in food and in the way we approach restaurant dining. I really enjoy dining out, especially in New York. I suppose I run into my share of attitude, but mostly it doesn't bother me that much and lets me appreciate it all the more when I don't run into it, which is most of the time. Maybe I just don't pay all that much attention to anything but the food. Unless I like the food, I'm not likely to return or talk about the restaurant. I enjoy the total experience as well, but the food sets the limit of the experience. If the service and ambience are perfect, I will enjoy the food 100%. Otherwise I will enjoy it less. Thus condescending attitude can turn a meal with food that rates a 98 into a 65 experience, but nothing can improve a restaurant where the food is worth a 60. I think, over time, we all decide who's going to post the reviews that lead us to a new restaurant. When thereuare says he's not a fan of dining out in the city, I suspect we don't share similar dining interests. I quickly get the sense that the restaurant in question is also not operating at full capacity. I don't think poplular restaurants are necessarily condescending, but I do think the staff is likely to be frazzled. I sympathize with them and don't find the attitude others do perhaps. I think USC is a good example to cite. It might be a restaurant where the service is better than the food, but it's a place where the food is damn near perfect. Why settle for better than average where there are restaurants like that?

I first encountered this in a park in Nara on a very hot August afternoon. That first serving of cold soba on a mat, a small bowl of dipping sauce, quail egg, grated radish and some herbs is one of the essential food travel memories I have. I don't know if another dish has ever seemed so appropriate, so right for the moment and place and so revitalizing. Of course the few times I've ordered anything close in the US, it's fallen flat on its face in terms of nourishment for the body or mind. It's been unsatisfying by comparison.

If we got all our priorities in order before passing laws, we'd probably never get past outlawing murder. Everytime another law came up, we'd get hung up over where in the chain of priorities the new law fit. This law is a good law, or bad law, on it's merits, not because there are no better laws to pass of better subjects to tackle. Is this a legitimate health concern to employees? Is it the best way to handle the concern. If we could guarantee a similar wage to every applicant whether they take the job or not, we'd have the problem solved.

Do you feel the same way about sexual harrassment?

I know sous chefs and managers at Daniel. Everyone's definition of a second class citizen may be different, but from what I've seen the FOH isn't treated any worse than the BOH, maybe better. I have no reason to doubt your story, but how and why would it prove that "the waitstaff is treated like second class citizens." Was the sous chef bigger than the manager? Were they fighting on the floor of the kitchen or dining room?

This thread seems to have an unusual number of first time posting new members.

Maybe they'll bring back spitting. Perhaps its time has come again.

If you're traveling around, I would assume you are eating in the inns at which you've booked -- or at least that's how I would plan my trip in the French countryside. We had two wonderful meals last fall in the Loire. Both were in the dining rooms of rather "swell" inns and neither were finds, in the sense that both restaurants had two stars. Lion d'Or in Romorantin, and Domaine des Hauts de Loire near Onzain are both exceptional places. The latter has exceptional grounds which made me regret we were were just staying one night and that our day was dedicated to seeing chateaux. At any rate, both of our meals were head and shoulders better than meals we had at one star restaurants. Both of these places are destination restaurants whose dinners left a greater impression on me than the chateaux and that's not easy as Chenonceau has always been one of my all time favorite buildings. Then again it was the fall and game was in season.

I'm sure I live in a special Utopia, but I honestly believe those cooks who can't envision the front and back of the house working as a team never cooked in a really fine restaurant. I know chefs who socialize and dine out with waiters, managers, captains and sommeliers all the time and I count some of each among my friends and acquaintances. This may tie in with a post I made in another thread about what chef's do in their limited spare time, but the one's I know, eat out a fair amount of the time.

They didn't, exactly... http://hospitality.careers.foodservice.com...cfm?passid=6796 From that link: "... the liquor-license application was sent to the wrong community board, which refused to grant Rocco's a liquor license." Yeah like community boards grant liquor licenses. While an appearance before the local community board is required, it's only recently that the State Liquor Authority has begun to even consider their opinion on the matter. " "In this case, the SLA made an exception . . . because we thought that the positive residual effects [of the show] would hopefully foster some economic growth for a food industry that is hurt badly in lower Manhattan," he said." Uh huh, more competition is what's going to keep those remaining restaurants in an area that's hurt badly. That's especially true when the area below Canal is hurting the most and this is pretty far uptown relative to the area that's hurting the most. That's web news that's far removed from reality and real information. Maybe it's fitting.

Espresso with sugar is what I want after dinner, and that's the accepted preactice in France, Italy and Spain, but that doesn't stop people with whom I dine from ordering cappuccino after dinner. My wife often likes her after dinner espresso, machiato or cortado. On the other hand, the "proper" breakfast drink is a very light cafe au lait in France, but I still like an espresso for breakfast. I've made a deal with the world. I don't rake them over the coals for adding milk after dinner and they don't piss on my breakfast espresso. In a cafe in Galicia once, where almost everyone seemed to be having a late afternoon cafe con leche, my wife insisted I try hers. In spite of my preference for cafe solo (espresso) I thought her cafe con leche was incredible. Should I take up residence in the area, it wouldn't take long to develop a craving for that version. To a great extent coffee drinking customs are as local as any other eating habits. I don't understand how anyone could drink coffee with lunch or dinner. For that matter, I don't even like it that much with breakfast and don't like it with dessert. Any restaurant where the waiter assumes I will have my coffee after dessert gets points. Nevertheless, many Americans drink coffee with meals. I'm always amused by how French waiters and Air France stewardesses deal with the request, when they are expecting a wine order -- just to get back on topic in this board. Aside to tommy regarding matters of taste: I notice how deftly you handle those comments on your t-shirts.

On the other hand, did they need a restaurant license to hold what amounted to a preopening party that was, I'm sure, by invitation. If this was a private party and there was no charge for the food, I doubt they needed to pass inspections. Once again I suspect we were only seeing a staged event.

Hey look, he's an actor not a waiter. He was "cast for NBC's unscripted drama television show, 'The Restaurant.'" That's quite different from being hired to be a waiter in a restaurant. Is this a show that resulted from filming a restaurant being opened or a restaurant that's the result of a TV series? Is it the kind of restaurant that will make diners eager to see a rerun of the show or a show that will make views eager to eat in the restaurant?