Bux

I'm glad I'm not the only one who knows less than he used to.

Au C'Amelot has a wine list. As I recall it was a short one page list when we were there. Prices were low. I seem to recall we had some glasses of the house white and then a bottle of a red from Beaujolais, but without the appellation. I'm not sure why it wasn't AOC, but it had more body than an Beaujolais. Hal's description sounds accurate. All I remember is a long narrow room that was very rustic. The night we were there there was actually a choice of main courses, but I understand that's very rare. Dessert is usually the only course with a choice.

I made the mistake of ordering a truffle tasting menu in France some years back before noticing that they were Himalayan truffles. Alas, they had a taste somewhere between potatoes and ... , well maybe turnips but the texture was harder than boiled potato and smoother than raw potatoes. It was not a treat. The fact that this variety is related to food quality truffles should not confuse anyone into thinking these really have much value for the table.

I think the necktie thing has been asnwered successfully. It's a rare restaurant in France where you absolutely have to wear one, although there are still plenty where the clientele will largely be necktied. The question I want to ask is, "what do you mean by all French Michelins?" Is that meant to signify all restaurants listed in the guide, just the starred ones, or just the multistarred ones? There are over 4,000 restaurants listed in the last Michelin Guide to France. My guess is that shortsleeves and sweaters outnumber neckties and jackets at 98% of them.

I ate at Roellinger back in 97. I did not think of his food as fusion. It was his food, rather than a fusion of any existing styles of food. There was one skewer that smacked a bit of a satay, but otherwise, in a tasting menu of many courses, there was nothing that didn't seem to be the assured work of someone in control of his talent and materials. I was sure he'd get a third star within a year or two, although my evening started with a service problem. Now, I'm sure he won't ever get that star unless the tastes of Michelin's inspectors change. Roellinger seems likely to remain an under appreciated chef. Amat was another who has suffered badly at the hands of the Guide Rouge, in my opinion. Michelin does a good job, but it's not rocket science and there's great subjectivity even in their stars. I dined at Lorain's Cote St. Jacques in October of 2002 and perhaps my meal suffered from comparison with Gagniare before and some wonderful two star meals in the Loire afterwards, but it was neither at creatively successful as Gagnaire's dinner, nor as satisfying as our meal at the Grand Hotel Lion d'Or. In any event it wasn't as memorable as either, not that I always necessarily leave a three star restaurant pining for an immediate return. "Unfocused" was a word from my notes at le Cote St. Jacques. It's well within the realm of possibility that Lorain has refound his focus and three stars would not surprise me if he has.

In a way, I would have thought the opposite--that they have too many ideas and need to change the menu very often in order to use all their ideas. In another way however, I think I understand him very much. In spite of the fact that this seems like the most experimental restaurant on earth and in spite of the fact that that there are dishes I may not understand or appreciate, I had the sense that everything he serves has been seriously considered and perfected before it comes to the table. This is not the restaurant of some wild and crazy inventor, it's public face of a creative chef, who is as much a perfectionist as he is an inventor. My guess is that some dishes take a long time to perfect, or at least until he's ready to serve them. I'm also aware that he can't possilby handle the demand for reservations and that by offering dishes for two years, he may be able to reduce the demand a bit from those who have to keep up with the latest dishes. I'm kind of surprised he hasn't thought of changing half the menu each year. It would accomplish the same thing and perhaps be a little smoother.

Good question. There's certainly good food available in Madrid and that includes some of the best seafood, but I've not been to that kind of market in Madrid. I'd also guess that you won't find one as inviting as the Boqueria in Barcelona, but I can tell you that the Madrid maps in the Michelin Guia Roja show covered markets scattered about Madrid. You will have to scout them out and let us know how good they are.

Let me add that quite a bit has been written about Berasategui over on the Spain forum.

Several hotels have their own beaches in PR, like both the Hyatt Dorado and Hyatt Cerromar on the north shore, from which I've just returned. True, but I believe Jason's reference was to San Juan. I don't recall any other hotel in San Juan having a private beach.

ducphat30, it appears as if we're on the same side of the pond and by sheer coincidence you managed to ask for the web sites of our two best meals in October. Any other questions?

Paris, France and Lasarte, Spain. Try http://www.alain-passard.com/ for Arpège and http://www.martinberasategui.com/ for Martin Berasategui

Bux, I am really failing to see your argument. You are much more likely to find the bottle that you want on an extensive and well priced list. In addition, the process of choosing that bottle involves looking at many possibilities, thinking about them, and then narrowing down the choice, another major benefit of a great wine list. I didn't present an argument. It's merely my subjective view and I'm merely commenting on the subjectivity of what makes a wine list great for people. It's also my introduction to saying we are drifting not only from answering the original question, but from a topic germane to this board when we discuss the best wine list in the world. I do believe there is a "best wine list" concept that is far different from the best wine list for a particular person. I am not aruging it doesn't exist.

Suppose a reviewer doesn't like beef. Should he review Peter Lugar? Suppose a review had a legitimate allergy to fish and seafood, what's the position on le Bernardin, Oceana and Citarella? I am serious. I fully understand a larger part of the NY Times audience is going to be poorly served by a review of the vegetables at Peter Lugar and that the number of stars may be inaccurate, but in spite of the few numbers of offal devotees, aren't they and a restaurant whose long suit is offal being served poorly in this case. Do the numbers justify this? The answers are not as easy as the questions, but Tony had a valid point if too caustic an approach. I'm sorry this is turning into an offal defense thread, but perhaps the very fact that the subject is so easily dismissed by the NY Times and that those of us who enjoy tripe and organs are reviled as "foodies" here in this thread is reason for the turn in this thread in an attempt to increase public awareness. Tripe is one of the glories of Lyon, a city know for it's food, in a country know for it's food--gras-double à la lyonnaise, tablier du sapeur & andouillette lyonnaise for example.

Just want to add some personal notes on stuffed piquillo peppers. The very best I've had were probably in France in a one star Basque inn near the border. (For the moment, I'm not counting a dish of stuffed piquillo peppers and small squid of the same size as the pepper created by Daniel Boulud for Cafe Boulud as it's a bit more complex.) The peppers in the Pays Basque, as I recall, were stuffed with a puree of dried codfish--basically a brandade and served with a bit of concentrated broth that may have been fish stock or chicken stock. They were probably baked in the oven, but may have been heated on the stove top. At any rate they were not fried or battered, nor were they covered with cheese as I've had them at times. I don't find the cheese and codfish a very successful combination. I wouldn't really gratinee them with cheese, but if you stuffed them with meat, oxtail ragout for instance, a little Idiazabal on top and a few seconds in the broiler, might be nice. I don't know if I've ever had them stuffed with anything other than dried cod puree or brandade, but I saw a recipe for oxtail stuffing that sounded good as well as one with mushroom stuffing. Cheese in France is a course between the last savory course and dessert. In Spain, cheese is more often a snack or tapa. I have purchased good Manchego in NY, so it's available. Oddly I've purchased it in an Italian specialty shop which also carries great Gruyère. The shopkeeper informs me that both Gruyère and Manchego are popular in Italy and that's why he carries them.

I've always associated the odor of ammonia with poorly stored and over the hill Camenbert because I used to run across so many ripe cheeses of that sort being sold in the US. Things are better today. More Americans know what cheese and beer are supposed to taste like and are willing to complain, at least sometimes. I've had a problem with an overripe cheese in NY and I discovered the local merchant was replacing the original expiration dates of the imported cheeses. We had a few words and he defended his practice and defended the ammoniated cheese, but refunded my money. Actually he wanted to offer me a different cheese. I opted for my money back and rarely buy cheese from the shop, although they have one or two reliable cheeses that I buy.

There should be an eGullet medal for valor beyond the call of duty. Consider yourself a decorated member of this board.

Flattery will get you nowhere, but only because that information is not at my hand. The last time we were in Paris, we ate at Arpège which is not only already three stars, but one of the more expensive ones. Perhaps to compensate, but we said we were saving our appetite for Donostia, the rest of our meals were taken at unstarred restaurants, all of which had no pretenstion to the stars and most of which were good honest and thoroughly enjoyable meals that were aided by their lack of pretense. L'Astrance was our last meal in a restaurant that seemed slated for grander things. It's actually in a fairly simple room and with fine, but less than elegant service and wine list, may not be slated for immediate upgrade. I've also not had the opportunity revisit it. I've also not been back to Carré des Feulliants in a few years. It has been two stars for so long that I suspect it will never get a third star. We though it was an exceptional meal at a very good price when we were there, but it's been a while. Since then, I've heard mixed views and read mixed views here on eGullet. Nevertheless, the most convincing comments were laudatory. I don't know that I've ever heard of a restaurant that's universally appreciated. Even people whose taste I respect have been know to disagree with mine. Even Robert Brown hated a restaurant I loved. There's a very interesting one star restaurant in the suburbs--les Magnolias. It's out in le Perreux-sur-Marne and fairly accessible by RER. Fresh_a and Margaret Pilgrim both raved about it here. I had mixed feelings. I found the chef very creative, but I also questioned just about every combination we had on our plates. Once again, I'm not sure if the current location and space will support two stars anyway. As this thread, if not your question, is about good value, it seems as if the one three star lunch that sticks in my mind as good value is at Grand Vefour, but I haven't been there, so you should check those reviews. If you care to take a trip to the countryside, I'm still salivating over a two star meal at Lion d'Or in Romorantin. It's 200 kilometers from Paris and hardly a day trip for lunch.

The world's greatest wine list, is the one that has the bottle I want at the price I am willing to pay. When it comes to influencing my decision on where to eat, the other hundred and fity thousand bottles are irrelevent. That, of course, is my subjective view. Others may find that wines held in an off premises cellar contribute to their enjoyment of the meal. I am aware of those diners for whom decor is not worth a premium and those for whom decor and ambience weigh more than the food when making reservations. Nevertheless, a discussion on wine lists in Florida, New York and Italy is probably going to be more on topic and useful in the wine forum.

Alex is on top of this. I can add to, or flesh out, some of his comments, but I can't disagree with anything he's said here. I suspect you may find that Americans may not appreciate tinned and jarred products nearly as much as they are appreciated in Spain. At least that's been my experience and, in truth, I'm still learning. Nevertheless, this also sounds like a great experience for your guests. Americans may also be put off by anything being served out of the can, but I remember reading about a respected French restaurant years ago, that served sardines from the tin precisely because they were proud of the brand they were serving. You make the decision about how you want to serve your guests. One piece of advice I'd have is to drain most of the foods of their packing liquid. That goes for all of the stuff packed in vegetable oil and maybe even most of the stuff in olive oil (taste first) and replace that with a little really good oil. I'd have no problem using extra virgin Italian olive oil. It's much harder to find really good Spanish olive oil, but of course that's good too. By the way, I've found most Portuguese olive oil to be a good buy, at least in certain neighborhoods in NYC. The south village (south of Greenwich Village) is an old Portuguese community, or at least the remnant of one with a few remaining delis. If I were to cook any of the canned goods, it would be the peppers. That's a personal choice and I'd want to stuff them and serve them warm. I see no reason however, not to serve them at room temperature with a little olive oil. You could also stuff them with the tuna and serve them at room temperature. I had a sort of hero sandwich at a little bar in Madrid that had olive oil packed canned tuna, achovies and roasted peppers. I was surprised at how good it was. It was really a memorable sandwich.

I don't ask anyone to eat dangerous foods, although many people crave blowfish which can be deadly and I can't get enough raw oysters. My point here is that it's not up to you to tell me which parts of an animal are really garbage parts if I prefer sweetbreads to filet mignon or tripe to porterhouse steak. It's as reasonable to call the whole carcass surrounding the intestines the garbage as it is to say the tripe is garbage. In colonial times, indentured servants had contracts that limited the number of times a week they could be fed oysters and salmon. There were no farmed salmon in those days and wild salmon was so plentiful that it, along with oysters, was considered garbage. This is a purely relative term and dependent on the culture in which it's used. What may be garbage in one culture may be highly prized in another. I find your need to label food and people a bit offensive. It's not your place to question why I eat what I eat.

Elsewhere on this site in another discussion about this review, I noted that the danger of having a reviewer with limited tastes is that new restaurants may be tempted into opening with offerings that appeal to a reviewer if the reviewer represents an important journal. The NY Times is such a journal. The public announcement by the current NY Times reviewer in regard to her tastes could well affect what the rest of us will find on menus. While I may not agree with Tony's style, I also think he had a valid point when he implied the reviewer was not someone who could best appreciate what the restaurant had to offer and thus while perhaps the number of stars was appropriate, the review lacked the enthusiasm the restaurant's food may have deserved. Were I dependant on this review for my decision regarding Cas Mono, I'd not have as much enthusisam as I have from reading other reports.

French country hams are very good, but I've noticed that in both Bayonne and Paris there's a big market for Spanish hams which are becoming prized in France. Lyon has a pretty good, maybe even great, central market--les Halles de Lyon--with some excellent butcher shops and charcuteries. For the most part, these seemed like relatively small operations. I have no idea how amiable they'd be to taking on a stagiaire or just letting someone observe, but I'd bet it would be a great experience. Closer to home, and less relevent to this forum, there are a few local chefs who make some of their own salumi. Tom Colicchio and Mario Batali come to mind.

St. Maure, and a number of other goat logs from France, are that size and shape, but they rarely have a thick coating of ash and a sharp amonia-like flavor wouldn't be how I would describe them. Then again, they're usually served fairly fresh. Aged long enough and they may well take on an amonia quality. I doubt it's St. Maure and take LOS' word that this is a Spanish cheese.

Have you considered trying to apprentice somewhere if you're set on learning this craft? I'm sorry to say I really don't have much of a clue to offer on how to go about doing that, but it strikes me as a good idea. Do you speak French, Italian or Spanish. For certain kinds of charcuterie the French are the unexcelled masters, but when it comes to ham, I'm going to suggest the best is from Spain. This may offend some prosciutto lovers. I think the Spanish hold their own in the dried sausage category as well, although I'm not sure who has the greatest variety. It may be the Italians. The Spanish do well curing other cuts of pork such as the loin (lomo) as well as dry curing meat from other animals. Some of the latter are regional specialties. Back to France, as appropriate to this forum, some of the best cured meat I've had was purchased in Annecy. There's a local producer specializing in various Alpine air cured pork products. I was about to aplogize for forgetting the name, but a quick look at my travel notes found this. Chez Abel, Le Petit Saloir at 6, rue de l'Isle, Annecy. I'm not sure if this is the producer or just the shop where we made our purchase, but I thought it was the producer's own shop. I don't know much about the program you're in in NY, nor do I recall how much, if any, on the job experience you have, but I'm a great fan of working with the best person you can find in your metier. I believe formal schooling has a great value in its structure, but also has its limits. A combination usually works best. The exact combination will depend on the student and the opportunities he finds. Whether you go to school to begin a special education in charcuterie or not, I'd advise trying to visit some great producers of the kind of product that interests you. In France, in particular, there are great artisanal workers in the food crafts. Meet them at food salons and fairs and go knocking on doors.

A great pity. Detourbe was one of three restaurant meals we had some years back in Paris that rekindled my interest in restaurants without stars. The other two were Eric Frechon's restaurant (he's now at the Bristol) and la Régalade.