Wendy DeBord

o.k. if I'm understanding this, it seems to really come down to doing exactly what you mentioned in your first post. It seems that the real problem is getting consistant thickening to meet his requests: a sliced piece of pie that holds it's shape and doesn't leak out filling or juices. You have to make some compromises here in order to please him. He clearly doesn't want anything but the basic fruit in a crust, so our suggestions of fillings that stablize fruits isn't helpful. So what he's saying is- consistant. What your struggling with is getting consistant results and giving him exactly what he wants. You have to thicken your fruit with more cornstarch then you like-because that's what he wants. Buy your fruit consistantly, as in; alway buy in frozen berries or always use fresh-so you don't have to adjust your recipe daily. Do a couple of trials to see how much cornstarch it needs to gell to his desires. You can also use purchased pie fillings and use them as a stablizer with your fresh fruit recipe and skip the cornstarch. For example I know of an apple pie recipe that works consistantly this way. They use half apple pie filling, add some flour, brown sugar and cinnamon stir together, then add half weight of frozen apple slices. The pie filling has ALOT of thickening in it. Your chef really isn't asking for a fresh tart/pie. He wants the filling to be like what you get from those buckets of fruit fillings or frozen pies. Perhaps he's not really seeing the whole picture-it's sort of a waste of money to have you imitate a frozen mass produced product because you can't do it as consistantly and cheaply as he can buy in. He really sort of needs to deside what he wants and understand that each is different..........If you can't get him to understand this and make a desision and you want to keep your position then you might want to try using those buckets of pie filling and just adding to them to make them closer to homemade. Don't feel insecure, he's not really making a good desision...he really wants you to imitate a frozen product and not a fresh pie/tart.

I agree, I do take a very simplistic approach to naming and describing desserts. I think thats important in the setting that I work in. Perhaps I need to give more background so you understand why this is hard for me.......... I work at a country club, it's not fine dining-never will be. They do alot of business, some members eat there several times a week. They want a mix of restaurant foods (steaks, pastas), family meal items (meatloaf, spagetti) and some finer dining items (although I can't even think of an example at this moment). Occasionally I'll make something that creates a stir/buzz and then I'm asked to keep it on the menu. I keep it on the menu until sales die down (couple months), then I'll typically have it on a large banquet and then I'll make extra and put it on that weeks menu. But theres only a couple desserts that are in this catagory so far (members can always request a dessert and some do). In time I hope to convert them over into plated desserts, but I've really just begun there. Their exposure to desserts is extremely limited. Right now I'm just working on building their trust in my products. I'm working on standard items and flavors they are familar with and showing them that baked goods can be good, consistantly good. I haven't heard any negative feed back yet. They are still discovering that they have a pc on staff and everything is being made in house now. Most of members don't know this yet regardless of publicity the management has given me. Study in__ isn't a work in progress, it's 'a study of' these flavor combinations (so my wording is incorrect). I should go with 'study of_'. It will never be perfected it's not leading up to something. Each version is perfected, each is different. If it was a experiement then I'd name it experiment in _. I'm having a hard time explaining myself, sorry. It's just that I've given sooooo many countless desserts the same name and the same description over time. That's fine when your not dealing with the same people day in and day out. I've just currently become a full time pc for them. How many times a week do you eat at your favorite restaurant-there is no comparision to a country club setting where there are repeat diners every night. What happens when I make one variation and the member doesn't like it-from then on they won't re-order that item. But I want them to know this one is different from that one they didn't like. So I can't keep repeating the same names. Yet, I do need to be conservative and not use too playful of names. And how many ways can you restate the same flavor combos with-out repeating? Thats my brick wall. Chocolate peanut butter cake, peanut butter and chocolate cake, chocolate cake with peanut butter mousse, etc....... So I'm reworking these items, but in a members memory they aren't going to remember which version it was that they disliked, just that it was chocolate and peanut butter, RIGHT? They don't know the difference between a almond daqiouse, an almond pound cake or an almond sponge cake so I can't give them specific names to distingush differences. Maybe I should though...........? Maybe I should be working on this now to have a more educated client? Yek, it's such a simple thing, yet it's become too complicated. Is it in my head? Should I just forget about trying to distinguish between similar items and let the members figure it out?

This is kind of like picking out what type of jeans you like to wear........everyone has a different opinion for different reasons. Personally I'm most comfortable with a long heavy wooden pin with ball bearing handles. It feels comfortable to me, I feel totally in control using it. I like a heavy wide pin because I think it does more quicker for me, I can really use my body weight to bare down with it and not just my arms. A pin with-out ball bearing handles is the slowest most uncomfortable method to me, I think it requres all arm musle for those. I can't get my body weight and motion to take the work load off my arms. For me it doesn't matter what type of dough I'm rolling out..........like I've seen little rollers for gum paste..........but the smaller the roller the more aukward it is in my hands. But then I roll dough alot so I handle it differently then a homemaker ever would.

I feel like I've hit a brick wall when it comes to giving a name or title to a dessert. I have 18 new desserts a month to title (no constant dessert menu, changes weekly)and I just can't find the words anymore. Both a title and a new breif description. Last week in frustration I desided to title something "study in_________", my poor chef thought I was nuts at first....but he agreed to it in the end. I can't think of any other way to label..............so I'm hoping one of you have had a similar problem and have some advice on how to title and or write fresh descriptions year in and year out? It's rare that I make something the same exact way twice. Actaully I only do that on request and thats a problem because I don't recall a week or two later exactly what I did. Example; This week I might do a- 1. peanut butter cake with a layer of semi sweet mousse, layer of peanut butter ganche, frost with whipped cream. Next time I approach this combination I do- 2. chocolate sable, layer of flourless chocolate cake, layer of peanut butter mousse, layer of whip cream and salted roasted peanuts. Then another time I might do- 3. a chocolate cake, layer of peanut butter, layer of chocolate cheesecake, repeat layers and garnish. They are all very similar yet they need different titles on the menu so the client who may or may not have tried and like version no. 1 knows this version will be different. I am somewhat lucky in that on weekends they display desserts to aid in the description. This has become a really tedious chore and I've lost my ability to 'want to' describe in writing my desserts. I don't want to become a factory and produce the same items each time.....I want to play with combos.....but I don't want to confuse or under describe an item either. SOOOOOooo thats where I came up with "study of________" or 'study in______" .........so even if your not a pc and you buy desserts what can I do to title a dessert and not confuse you? How would you react to desserts titled "study in_______"? Anyone have something fresh to help me think and respark my titleing?

I am guilty of admiring Steves thoughts and writings on pastry arts. But I've had disagreements with him too. But one thing I've come to learn (sometimes even reluctantly) is he's alot smarter than I. I've yet to see him write something that wasn't dead on right. Sure that stinks when you have the opposite view...........but every damn time he makes me stop and think and every damn time he's right. Somewhere along the way you must have taken something Steve has written to heart the wrong way. That's your own mistake Micheal. If you calm down and read his exact words I'm certain you've misunderstood. We all have our own points of view. It's up to each of us to take the time and be humble enough to really listen to what others have to say...........then we might learn something about each other.

It's fine if it's all about money, that is how the world works. But eventually the advertisers money won't be there if the readership isn't buying this mag. because another publisher has stepped in and provided better reading material. Yes, of course we too work for the all mighty dollar. The standard we have to meet is not only to please our imediate boss, but to please the little guys who pay our bosses salary. Your standards are set by you with great care for your advertisers and little care for who funds your advertisers in the first place. If you ignore your readers you won't have advertisers. Heck, I don't know why any of us even care anymore. You haven't taken our suggestions and run with them, ever. You constantly ignore us. YET.......it sure is funny how that secret agent always calls you to tell you someone here is talking about you. That's a hoot! It really no longer matters to me, I've found other sources to fill my pastry reading needs. I'm sure your's won't always be the only American pastry rag on the stands. When the next one comes along we'll all greet them with welcoming arms just as we did yours.

I'm positive your right Karen! I just couldn't put flecks of green into a yellow curd, someone would have called me on it. It was very noticable to me when I used recipes that added other flavors to the lemon. In my mind that changes them too much to call them a lemon curd. It's then a lemon./lime curd or a lemon/orange curd, etc... It's great to have those other combinations-I never really thought about doing that previously and will do so in the future for more variety. Just my opinion...........

I've been thinking about getting the Brunstein book for a while now. I have a couple books on mini's and theres only a couple of recipes from each that really seemed new/interesting............so I've been hesitant to buy Brunsteins in case it's got alot of repeat or obvious combos. SO I definately would like to hear your review Ted, please.

Welcome. Long story I'll try to make short. My mother participated in a bake sale for years. Actually she baked all the items with no other particapants. My mother is a professional chef/pastry chef so she had alot of experience and ideas to bring to this type of event. Sister and I would help lug stuff for her. So what I learned. People buy what people are familar with. Items they would have baked themselves but don't have time. Even though something was great tasting, with-out giving them samples to taste it first-it doesn't sell so well. Looks/presentation was extremely important. You have to cut your items cleanly, professionally looking. Double plate the bases so their sturdy to carry. The items with an extra touches, like a drizzle of frosting over a base of frosting or any decoration-sold the fastest. Wrapping your whole plate with a ribbon and bow makes it sell quicker then one not wrapped. Items that sell...........well you probably won't have refridgeration so doing cheesecakes isn't safe. I have a book called "The Great American Bake Sale" published by Barron's. Here's a few lines from their book. "If a contest were held for America's favorite cookie, the all-time champ would be chocolate chip. No wonder it's the bestseller at every bake sale." I'd have to agree with that! What people LOVE and BUY: peanut butter cookies chocolate chip cookies snickerdoodles cupcakes lemon bars brownies banana cake carrot cake fruit bread-banana, zuchini pies-apple baklava carmel corn toffee white chocolate coated popcorn If your dying to use your cream cheese consider using it in a dough....like a cream cheese cookie (the type you roll and decorate) or a cream cheese rugalch or kolacky.

Oh RedFox you brought up something I forgot. I do need to make some breads. I was going to make my best Italian breads but thats like bread sticks and focashia..........but shaped ones would be more in style?????? really, hum.............that could be interesting. The sugared fruits.............I saw a photo of sugared peaches in a book I have "Sweet Sicily". I thought those peachs were what Jeniac posted photos of on her thread. Basicly she says their a sponge cake wrapped in marzipan and painted to look realistic. I can't figure out if that's an Italian pastry or not. Can you tell me if the item in my photo would be this marzipan covered cake or a real peach coated in sugar? Thanks

Although I do own Yards book, I took the recipe that was posted here to use. Yes, the Stewart recipe with all yolks is much thicker. I don't understand why the fine cooking one tasted better, the differences aren't that huge. I didn't get that metalic taste with the fine cooking one. But the other two I made also had whites and they were more similar to Marthas in taste. I don't know, why use whites? I like whites in my anglaise for it's thickening powers.........and don't like them in my pastry cream as a thickener. I wonder if adding whites break down the thickening properties quicker. Perhaps the next step is to increase the yolks in the fine cooking recipe until it's thicker, keeping everything else as is. So it looks like this; Fine cooking 2 c. sugar 8 yolks 4 whites 1 1/3 c. lemon j. 2 tsp. zest Then split this batch in 1/2 . To one half add 3 oz. butter (as posted online) and follow Sherry Yards suggestion of more butter for a richer curd and add 4 or 5 oz. of butter to that second half. If you had the time, try another batch of the fine cooking recipe and use all yolks no whites ......... 2 c. sugar 12 yolks 1 1/3 c. lemon juice 2 tsp. zest And repeat the butter experiment, adding more to one half of this batch then the other. How's this sound? I can't give your any exact science on it, but thats how I would continue testing to perfect the fine cooking recipe. Samaki have you done any more testing on this?

Thanks everyone. I have an added complication-this buffet is going to be outside in the heat unless it's raining. I still feel stuck/unmotivated..........my time and efforts will be to limited- and the guest count right now is way down, party is this Sat.. Sooooo jeeze to tell you the truth I wish this one would get canceled. I did wonder why the Venetian hotel had a lion with wings as it's logo.....thanks for the link, that explains everything. Keith, (mr. cake artist) I was looking thru Margret Brauns book last night.......and it seems like she has alot of Venetian style, no? Do the 3d scrolls she uses lend themsleves to this? I'm sort of thinking a cake in the Braun style (some grape clusters and grape leafs with scrolls) as a main item with a mask on it........then taking the scrolls or a diamond patterns (chocolate brushed with gold dust) into my other cakes (tiramisu) and throwing a gondola on top of a couple cakes. Have I strayed too far?

I feel a little confused on this dining event we are doing at work this week. Venetian night in my city (suburbs of Chicago) usually means people acting crazy and decorating their boats with lights and parading them past the on lookers from shore. But Venentian night at work seems to mean an Italian buffet, pool side where they are getting someone to float a gondola in the pool. Being a untraveled person nothing in particular comes to mind with the word Venetian other then gondolas..........it doesn't even shout Italian to me, sorry (I've just never seen a place call an Italian night a Venetian night). Anyway I need to come up with something visual with my sweets and I'm feeling blank. I was wondering if any of you cake artists have done anything creative in this theme? I'm looking for a few good ideas. It could be making a centerpiece, or a edible centerpiece, or chocolate gondolas floating in something. I feel fairly confident with my Italian recipes..............it's the visual aspect I can't seem to develop. Any thoughts, anything you've seen done thats cool on this theme? Thanks in advance

The first thing that came into my mind is what has happened to me with mixers a couple times now.........dark sticky oiley drip, has been from the engines dripping down to the beaters. I'm not mechnically minded- I forgot what they called that oil, but it turned out to not be a food based ooze. I don't know enough about your ovens to make a good guess. Your thoughts make sense........... you don't have any moving gears that would leak inside like my above example. Give us an update on what you discover from your wholesaler, o.k.?

The one issue that bothered me the most was the thinness of these curds. After sitting 2 days in the cooler I used some inside some mini choux puffs. I used a piping bag (to fill many shells) and it just poured out of the bag, they were all close to being liquid. I used some in tart shells and they sogged out the shells over night. The recipe I've been using for years came from Martha Stewarts book on desserts. She uses it in a "1-2-3-4 lemon cake": 12 yolks 1 1/2 c. sugar 1 c. lemon juice zest of 2 lemons Cook stove top until it thickens (I bring it to the bubble), then chill over an ice bath, when it's warm but not hot I bur whip in: 1 c. butter This has alot of body. If you add the butter while it's hot-it still sets up rather firm. Similar but less firm then a pastry cream. I get a metalic tasting undertone in alot of lemon items I bake (I've discussed this before) and I definately get that in this curd, thats why I don't think it's worthy to challenge the recipe from Fine Cooking. If you compare the two recipes (martha's and fine cookings), this is how it looks: doubling the fine cooking recipe so their closer in volume. Fine Cooking-------------------------------------------------Martha S.'s 2 c. sugar-------------------------------------------------- 1 1/2 c. sugar 4 yolks------------------------------------------------------12 yolks 4 whole eggs-----------------------------------------------0 whole eggs 1 1/3 c. lemon juice---------------------------------------1 1/2 c. lemon juice 2 tsp. zest--------------------------------------------------2 tsp. zest 6 oz. butter-------------------------------------------------8 oz. butter Lets look at Sherry Y.'s and KarenS.'s too. I'm doubling Yards recipe and 1/2ing Karens to get them closer in volume to the above examples. Sherry Yards-----------------------------------------------KarenS 1 1/3 c. sugar-----------------------------------------------2 c. sugar 8 yolks-------------------------------------------------------8 yolks 6 whole eggs------------------------------------------------8 whole eggs 1 1/2 c. juice(combined lemon & orange)----------------1 1/4 c. lemon juice 4 tbsp. lemon zest------------------------------------------zest from 1 lime 4 oz. butter--------------------------------------------------4 oz. butter

I have a question for you Jeniac. I'm not familar with the peaches you refered to and posted photos of earilier (although I was interested because their lovely)........then today I was looking thru a baking book "Sweet Sicily" and there was a photo of a peach (but no accompanying recipe, it was in a larger photo showing something else) very similar looking to yours. So is this an authentic Italian dessert, do you work in an Italian restaurant? I had no hints about it's history, recipe or origins until now. I need to do an Italian buffet this week at work and I might like to make these.............

Hum............great minds must think alike ( ) cause a couple of my favorite doughnut recipes come from Amish/Mennonite cookbooks. So I strongly ditto Andies reccomendation. I found there to be many good recipes in these types of books, I don't think I've come across a bad one yet.

I ditto aidensnds post. I bring it up to the bubble, not a rolling boil. My boiled eggs don't curdle at all. I rarely bake with the finished curd, but I have and it still works fine. If my curd was as loose as some of these that I tested, I'd be scared that I wouldn't be able to cut my finished product or if I used it as say a filling in a danish, I think it would puddle off or sog out the product..

I had the chance to do some testing yesterday at work. I was bad, in that I didn't follow the recipe proceedures written with each recipe. Instead I made each of them exactly as I make my "standard" curd recipe. I cooked each in a pan over dirrect heat (no double boilers), I brought each one up to a boil, I burr whipped in the butter after the curd cooled down (to warm/ not hot) over a ice water bath. I just can't grasp how differently any of these recipes would have been if I had whipped the eggs before cooking (this is a issue I always disagree with in books) and introducing a fair amount of liquid to them (I get the same results with less effort). One day I'll come across supporting published words on this topic (hopefully). The first one I made was the Fine Cooking. I liked the flavor of this one the best. It had the cleanest lemon flavor of the 3. Nice, clear lemon flavor with an expected twang from the lemon. BUT this one was the thinnest of all 3. It's too thin for me to be able to use it as is, in place of my 'standard' recipe. The second one I made was from KarenS. This one had the most eggs to liquid and it was the thickest of the 3. I wasn't crazy about the flavor, it was much duller then the fine cooking recipe. I did use the orange juice as written in the recipe, but used lemon zest instead of lime zest (green zest in a 'lemon' curd is a conflict to me). I thought the addition of the orange juice was minor, it didn't add alot, didn't take away either. The last one I had time for was the Sherry Yard recipe. It called for lime with the lemon. I didn't like the lime juice addition, it was strong enough to confuse the issue and make me rename this a lemon/lime curd. This was my second place pick of the 3 for both flavor and consistancy. This one also was too thin for me to be able to use it in my typical applications with-out modifications. I'm not sure that I want to offer up my 'standard' recipe from Martha as a challenge. It's flavor is similar to karens and Sherry Yards...where as the one from fine cooking really did taste superior, although it's texture is much much thicker and more versitle in it's uses. I'd like to know why the fine cooking recipe left such a better lemon flavor then all the other lemon curds I've ever made. It didn't have any trase of a metalic flavor and it was strangly a clearer flavor. As far as adding the whipped cream. I didn't do that with any of these although it's something I do frequently for minature pastries. I like how the two combine, but I don't think the under tones of the curd would change (until I try it and you prove that wrong).

I'm struggling with the same issue. I've got some b-day money to spend and I just can't seem to be thrilled over any book right now. I think I might have too many books, if such a thing can happen. I want something better then what I already own.........and some of those books are pretty hard to top, like Herme', etc... Theres two I'd like more info on, though. First, I understand Lesleys book is very nice and I want to check into that. Second after reading the interviews with James MacGuire I'm curious to hear some reviews of his book. I still want the book on casting, making molds by Micheal Joy.......but I fear I won't use it often in my job. I noticed the other day when I went to a newly buildt Barne & Noble that the Dubies from Canada have a book out. I don't recall the exact name....it's something like unusual desserts and wine pairings. If I did similar work, I'd have bought it.

Gosh I feel horrible for both of you. I can't imagine being in your shoes...........I wish there was something I could do or say to help................... The only small stupid thing I can add is, I think there's pc work out there that isn't as hard with repetitive motions. Yes, I know how hard it is to find a good job, but if your body can't handle it you need to listen. The type of work I do doesn't involve alot of repetitive motions and I have enough freedom to change up my tasks if I'm fatigued. You don't have to give up your career, there are jobs out there that are less physically demanding. If you worked for a real jerk, you'd seek a better job..... Also Jeniac, good employees are hard to find. Your an asset for that business. If you can, offer up to help again, in any area that you can phsyically do until your healed. Keep in close contact with them so they know you want to keep this job. Good comunication is important.

I have a confection oven. I read your response on another question about oven types. So it seems that my options are pretty limited...........how can I get a decent bread out of this oven? Can I get a decent rye bread using a confection oven? If so could you reccomend a specific recipe? Thank-you for all you help!

Karen, you forgot to add how much butter? I hope to make a couple of these today, will take photos if possible.

Hi, I'm a working pastry chef who has just dabbled in bread making from time to time and I'd like to add some bread products into my work schedule. I'm not going to be able to replace our purchased breads for ala carte service. My labor costs wouldn't make it as profitable as time spent on sweets. BUT I personally want to take on some bread making to increase my knowledge. Can you make some suggestions on which breads might give the most preconcieved value to our kitchen? Is there any short cuts I could use to help me fit those into my schedule? For instance, could I make a large batch of it in the beginning of the week, refridgerate it and just pull out what I need daily to bake off?

For those of you that have enjoyed baking the various breads in Baking With Julia.........you might be interested in the Q & A with Chef MacGuire.