Wendy DeBord

As to: hazelnuts or almonds, I'd opt for the hazelnuts. What comes to my mind when pairing a beer is how strongly flavored beer really is. For me, I want something that can stand up to it. If you go mild with your flavors, the beer just takes over. Almonds are very mild, they would be o.k. but then I'd want to kick-up the triple cream. It's just opinions really.........and tasting your components together while you creating is a must. This might sound weird but I'd take a glass of beer with me and start tasting every dessert component I have on hand (and some savory items too-definately cheeses), then start smelling herbs and seasonings (with beer in hand). If your tasting something that seems too sweet with the beer, try it with a sprinkle of salt on top.

First, as to having diabetic desserts on menus, I'd like to, I have no objections to it at all. I have a customer that requests diabetic desserts and I always go out of my way for them. The problem is that the topic is complicated so much that I'm really not sure what I can or can not make. I've purchased and looked thru many diabetic specific baking books and sites on line and the more I read the more confused I become. One book will let you use sugar, the next one doesn't, the next one looks like anything goes but dairy, the next one looks like it's carb free you want, the next one's counting calories............it's all too confusing. I can't get a solid grip on EXACTLY what I can do. If the medical powers that be could just agree and narrow things down then spell them out I think many of us would be happy to please this customer base. If you could just say "change out the sugar for splenda" I'd have a ton of ideas. I made a chocolate cake from a diabetic dessert book I bought.......it came out ok. BUT then I tried to use the recipe they give you for frosting and that was impossible. It was whipped egg whites with nothing to stablize them, it was a joke. I searched and searched and never did find any frosting recipe suitable to use as frosting. I also made a panna cotta (I forget what the dairy was) I think it used lite cream........That was fine, but I wanted to serve it with fruit as an embellishment and the book I think said something about not using fresh fruits either. If you all could just simplify the issues and agree on a couple major points we could probably make some decent desserts. Which of these things can you have? I need a list of ingredients. Sugar or splenda Flour or nut flours heavy cream, buttermilk, whole fat milk, butter.........what dairy can diabetics have? And what about chocolate? The semi sweets and bittersweets don't have alot of sugar............can chocolate be used? Yes or no?

I agree with Neil on this. (I should first admit that I'm not a beer drink at all! But I do know I don't like dry liquours with sweet desserts.) I see doing something like a salted cheese flan or custard (not blue.........maybe brie or a sharp cheddar) in a phyllo cup (or a savory puff pastry straw to garnish) with caramelized peanuts that have been salted and peppered. Maybe a savory herb in there like thyme or rosemary.........I'm curious how a curry would work too.

Yes, I do trust my personal tastes. That's why I mention my opinion. I was supprised that I wasn't crazy for Valrona's milk chocolate! BUT I'm certainly interested in how my opinion compares to others. It would be a lie to say I've done extensive chocolate tastings. Sometimes (almost always) your memory of taste can fail you when you don't do side by side tasting. Of which I've never done (BUT SHOULD). Therefore I listen to others reccomendations, and have been well rewarded for doing so. I'm very happy with the E. Guittard line I'm using..........I dipped more truffles last night and I'm just blown away by how thin my shells are using their semi sweet. It's all in the brand, I've never gotten this nice of shells with other brands.

When you temper on marble you can see the temp. change happening as the chocolate thickens. It's a no brainer when you've reached your low temp. Then when you reheat it back to working temp. 90 or 92 it takes a while to do this gently and sometimes you get small clumps that don't want to stir out at that temp. If you use your stick blender it breaks down those bits nicely, giving you a nice smooth bowl of chocolate in seconds. When you use the seeding method it's hard to get the temp. of your bowl of chocolate down stirring it (I think it takes longer). I reach a point where the seeded chocolate almost refuses to continue melting. You can stir and stir and it takes forever to get the whole bowl liquid. With my stick blender I can force the chocolate into temp. changes more dramaticly. After I've reached my highest heat melting, I dump in my seeding chocolate and using the emursion blender it quickly breaks down the seed chocolate (even though I start with pistoles). I can go down into the 80's (seeing the temp. change clearly) even well below my targeted temp. and the chocolate remains more fluid. That makes reheating back to 90 or 92 take moments and I don't have any clumps to struggle with melting. P.S. The correct tempering temp.s are written on or enclosed in your box of chocolate..........chocolate brands differ in the temp's they reccomend, it's not just authors.

Great thread SethG! I'm definately not an expert on breads but I can ditto a couple opinions posted. I probably hold an opposite opinion on this then most people: My best sweet breads, danish, coffee cakes, brioche and sweet roll recipes I've found didn't come from "big name" bread books. Just as in the over all catagory of 'baking' it breaks down to bread or pastry bakers. I think bread bakers can be broken down into savory and sweet bread bakers. I've yet to find one bread bakers book thats equally strong with sweet as they are savory. This will probably horrify all our devoted bread bakers but I like the sweet bread catagory out of Gisslens books better then any of the recipes I've tried from Reinhart, Silverton, Clayton, RLB, etc....

I do like the E. Guittard in my truffles. It really does play a back seat to your flavorings (now that you mention it) and I swear I get a thinner shell with it then other brands I've used...........unbelievably thin! But what about Valrona's milk chocolate..... In the French pastry books they (Herme I should probably say) seem to use it exclusively as if it was the best brand available. Indeed I was blown away by Valrona's darker chocolates (I've never worked with them though). Is it my American taste buds that makes me think the Valrona milk chocolate is sub-par? Is it a "good" brand of milk chocolate and my taste is off? Or do the French not care about milk chocolate enough to have the best of it?

Thanks for posting the ingredients...............nothing looks strange to me. Boulak has that happened to you or are you speculating? Why would the soda turn it brown?

This has me baffled........I've never come across a similar reaction. In my head I've tried to think of things that would cause a chemical reation to turn an item brown inside. So far the only thing I can think of is using brown sugar in place of white sugar....possibly using a different flour (as in- you can see a difference between bleached and unbleached flours). Even an over baked item doesn't make the interior change colors, unless it was noteable burnt. I keep thinking that your acid (lemon) could have had a funny reaction to another ingredient- but I can't think of what that might be. Could your eggs have gotten burned by the sugar and lemon?........but I'm not sure I think that would account for that drastic of a color change. I have had a lemon pound cake not bake right because I under incorporated the lemon juice (under mixed the whole batter), could you have done that? Were you overly gentle? I can't log onto the link you posted because I'm not a member there. I think it would help to see the whole recipe. Can you post it here for us? You CAN post the recipes ingredients and quanities as published with-out violating copyright. Just don't post the written description of their method.

Unforunately I don't get the chance to try a wide variety of chocolate brands. I recently bought Valrona's milk chocolate (retail) and I personally was a little supprised by it. I'm currently using all E. Guttaird's line at work.........I've always thought the E. Guttaird milk chocolate to be a little bit waxie and timid (compared to fechlin's I used at a previous job, and admired)..........until I tasted Valrona's. I expected the Valrona to be great and really much better then the Guttiard and Fechlin, I'm supprised that I thought it wasn't nearly as good. This has me wondering if others feel the same way, that Valrona's milk chocolate is pretty weak? Or am I missing something? Am I comparing it too much to a typical American candy bar and not really the 'right standards'? So, who's milk chocolate are you buying?

I do think that when your learning how to temper using a marble or granite slab is a good way to learn. You can really see and feel the temp. changes in the chocolate. But before you buy one consider that you'll want a large piece (and it's never large enough) and it's heavy to drag in and out when you use it. If you make it part of your permanent counter, in time you might not use it much and may regret the modification. I can see you baking alot at home as you study but if your planning on making this a career you might find that it's rare for you to bake at home. If I need baked goods it's just easier to make something at work.......once you get used to a professional kitchen with someone else washing your dishes making a mess at home is a pain. But there really are many ways to temper. I use a hot water bath seeding techinque with my immersion blender. It's the least messy and most comfortable for my situation. If you attempt to temper using your microwave, make sure you own a decent one. The micro I have at work doesn't have a turn table and has a horrible hot spot........making it unsuitable for melting chocolate. When you wanted to temper but didn't want to use more chocolate to seed it, you should have used the amount of chocolate called for as your total weight........you didn't need more. You would have taken 3/4's of your total amount, melted it to temp., seeded it with the remaining 1/4th and you'd have the right amount.

What is wensleydale?

In my opinion working those extra hours do greatly interfer with your ability to think and judge clearly. Both the employer and the employee are human and subject to fatigue. In my families business (bakery turned catering) I think that really played a huge part of our down fall. You have to be able to step back and see the larger picture to make good judgements. You can get yourself so wrapped up by the little things that you don't have time to focus on your goals and keeping on that path. You also begin to get sick physically from the stress, lack of sleep, etc... Your less productive when your fatigued! I honestly beleive that you'll be more successful cutting back and balancing out your life then pushing through with blind faith hoping one day that things will balance on their own, they never do. It's not like theres some test out there people must pass to become business owners and employers. The bake shop your working at Tan, sounds like their walking on the edge of disaster. A business has to operate with some backups in place. They have to have more then one source to buy, make and sell their product to or they are doomed the day one of those links fails. The whole bitching about costs and expenses does drive many employees crazy. It makes me crazy too. I hate to hear that constant whining from managers when they aren't even the owner. You've gotta wonder how dumb do they think you are............or are they really that stupid that they don't see the link to price and profit. Ahhhhh, I have times when I'm better at ignoring the stuff that bothers me. I also really credit changing jobs has changed my attitute. I used to think all the same problems plagued every food business, but each place has different problems and some are easier to work under then others. It's sort of like a personality match. I've found a place that matches my mentality and that greatly effects my work attitute. I work for a chef that actually lets people take vacation when they need to, regardless of how busy we are. Everyone does pitch in and covers the work, it's really really great (although not easy)! Theres no guilt attached. He knows that people will come and go and he works the whole place with that attitute. I'm thrilled with the maturity and wisdom of this young (only 24) chef. His staff has very little turn over and we really do work together as a team. It's auesome! I think you become less 'job scared' when you do actually change jobs and see that you will land on your feet. The unknown is scarie but sometimes it leads a better job then your current........and if you don't burn your bridges sometimes you can return if you don't find something better.

You also need to learn that tempering is used for specific items, for specific reasons. There aren't that many items I use tempered chocolate on/with as a working pc, I think that might be a suprise to some people. I only temper chocolate for candy and decorations I want a high shine on or items I want to store at room temp.. Untempered melted chocolate can be used almost exactly as tempered chocolate to make garnishes and coat candies. But it will be different in looks, snap and melt then tempered chocolate. In some instances that creates a better product (in some peoples opinion, not everyones) in others it's totally unacceptable. Non-tempered chocolate is refridgerated to set and refridgerated to hold. It does seem to melt quicker in your mouth then tempered chocolate. Non-tempered chocolate will begin to bloom when held at room temp. for a period of time. Non-tempered chocolate doesn't mean anything goes when melting and using it. It also has rules that must be observed. As Steve mentioned Alice Medrich takes this approach of using non-tempered chocolate in her books. I suggest you do read through her books as part of your education and learn her approach because it does have applications. In my opinion, to learn about tempering you'll learn more if your not successful right away. Be a mad scientist, allow yourself to explore your failures and learn from them. If you miss your temp.s I suggest you continue making your product (hopefully it won't be too expensive) and learn what happens. Make yourself a note so you remember what you did wrong and what it's effect was. But continue working with the unsuccessfully tempered chocolate. Try sticking it in the refridgerator or freezer right after use, see what happens. Notice the texture of it, the color, does it have a glaze to the surface while it's still liquid? Thermometers are great tools but you should learn what tempered chocolate looks like when it's liquid verses untempered chocolate. You should taste the differences, check the mouth feel, check the shine. Eat bloomed chocolate, cut it, see the layers, etc... My point is you have to learn about failures to understand why and how they happen. It's also pretty important to learn how to deal with waste product because in a professional kitchen you'll need to recyle product when ever you can. When you don't need to temper: as you learned you don't want to waste your time taking steps when the steps aren't essentical. 1. I can't think of an instance when chocolate does need to be tempered WHEN your adding another major ingredient to it. Major as in butter, cream, sugar. So when your making a ganche, frosting, coating, your chocolate does not need to be tempered. As Steve mentioned with the glaze you were making for your torte. (In fact, recently we talked about glaze for a opera torte and I used the recipe Lesley offered up. I thought it was sensational, handled like a dream and I would highly reccomend using that over anyone elses similar recipe.) 2. If your making a cake or cookies and you need melted chocolate you can use the chocolate that is way out of temper if you have any from your practice (learning how to temper), don't throw that chocolate away. Even horribly bloomed chocolate will work in baked goods when melted down and incorpated with other ingredients. 3. When you learn to use a wagner sprayer to coat items in a thin layer of chocolate your mixing chocolate and cocoa butter 50/50 and supprisingly you don't need to temper your chocolate for this purpose either..........because your adding another major ingredient and your spraying this on a frozen item. 4. Coating a frozen item in chocolate doesn't require tempered chocolate. As soon as the chocolate coats the item it instantly sets and the crystals that normally would develop into bloom can't.

Typically in the situation you described, the grocery will bring in goods from their other stores to sell. I think it would be pretty unusual that they'd buy in from someone else. If your legal and looking to increase your sales I'd suggest looking for opportunities that were just the opposite of what you mentioned. I'd look for upscale (they have more money to spend) caterers, restaurants, coffee shops, etc... . Look to do custom work/quality upscale items that wholesalers don't do........thats your niche.

Ditto on that! It's ALL in having the choc at the perfect temp. all the way through the chocolate block. Patience is definately needed!! I've left it in a turned off conventional oven, on a stove top with pilot lights, near heat vents.............the hardest part is finding a safe place to leave your chocolate over night where it won't melt but will soften all the way through. I recall thinking I had the perfect spot while at work and not taking into account the room temp. change over night-which was even warmer then day (because the hood fans were off). You can use ALOT of chocolate figuring this one out.

One of my monthly specials is pumpkin creme brulee and it's selling better then any previous special. I make a tart shell using thinly rolled puff pastry and bake it blind between two mini tin pie cups. When the puff is set, but before it takes on alot of color I brush it with corn syrup and continue baking until golden. I store the shells seperate and fill them to order. I bake my brulee seperately in a pan placed with-in another (ie.waterbath). They scoop out the pumpkin brulee to order and fill the shell. Torch it off=brulee'. Set it on cinnamon cream anglaise and serve it with a dollop of whipped cream and a chocolate leaf. It's not too far from a pumpkin pie, it has a touch of brandy which goes very well with the pumpkin. Next month I'm doing a pumpkin chiffon pie as one special.........although I haven't desided on a formula yet. Off the top of my head I can't recall who sells pumpkin puree, but I would definately look them up on the web. I bet they have several good tested recipes..........and you can use your own puree instead of their product.

Just to clarify: candy clay, chocolate plastic, modeling chocolate are basicly all the same thing. Their consistancy is close to a tootsie roll. You can use either real chocolate or candy melts, although I think the candy melts version is less versatile and not as good tasting as using real choc.. Can you post a link to a photo of that cake Theone? They might have it over at Martha's site. The thing is Martha's magazines usually post very good dirrections on how to make everything, including wedding cake decorations. It's possible that they aren't using chocolate plastic (thats why a photo would help). There is a technique of forming flower petals by scraping a round cookie cutter over a soft block of chocolate.

I was refering to this statement in my previous post. I do not believe women need to play nice. I do think both sexes are taught to 'place nice' when we are young. But biologically I do think boys play differently then girls or visa versa. I do think women attach to this concept "play nice" more then men and we have a harder time letting go of it. When a women is tough, they are a bitch. When a man is tough, they are strong. Quite frankly I think women are the first to call foul. I don't see men playing by those school yard rules in the work place, I don't see anyone calling foul on them. They scruffle all day long with each other in the work place.........they never call foul, if they did they'd be a sissy and loose face with the other guys. I do think males and females think and act differently-right or wrong, there are differences. I think many women aren't sure how to work with men and find it more comfortable to work with females.........they know how females act and know the "rules" and how to manipulate that female enviroment. Differences that don't add up to any solid reason I can think of to explain why more men are granted "great chef" status over females..........theres just differences-thats what I'm trying to point out. I agree with several other possible reasonings posted by others. It's not bad to aim for any goal (so long as it doesn't do harm to others)! But I took your story (Karen) of your mother that she did do harm along the way of seeking her goals (harm to you by not parenting you). I see your current situation (being a soon to be single parent) as facing a similar delemia: wanting to be free to seek out your goals, yet being responsible as a parent and trying to find a balance between those goals. Where will you land? I ask not really of you personally, but there are SO many women in the same situation. As a women that doesn't have children I can say that I am definately in the minority! I am constantly asked "why don't you have children?", "Don't you like children?" This position is new in society and many people don't quite understand why someone might choose not to have children! Each women that doesn't have children faces the stares and questions differently and answers them differently both internally and externally. I think years ago no one questioned the childless women. Birth control wasn't what it is today and people knew the reasons why a women didn't have children. From my personal experience I would swear that my hormones created thoughts and needs that my brain may or many not have agreed with. From the age of 16 to 40 I had the strongest biological need to have children. I really do believe that hormones are powerful on the female animal. I believe hormones send different messages to our brains as we grow older. At 43 I no longer have a driving biological need to have children-that chemical/hormone has faded/changed. We can't pretend that we aren't biological animals. Whether or not we understand these things, they do exist. Add into the factor that this career doesn't pay well (as your working your way up through the ranks and pastry chefs tend to make less then head chefs) and I think you have a HUGE elephant in the room that we aren't addressing. Many of us (chefs/cooks) rely on our spouses income to support our career choice. If we didn't have a spouse creating more income many of us would be forced to have 2 full time jobs. Many people that work in kitchens do have 2 full time jobs. It takes a lot of 'fight' to want to remain in the kitchen cooking. I began working in the kitchen at my Mothers bakery. She had a constant flow of culinary students working for her (male and female). None of which 20 years later are still in the kitchen professionally. I think there are alot of talented people out there that could have been a great chef that for one reason or another left the kitchen as their primary job. I have a friend that is one of the first and few females that ever competed internationally in pastry. She could be a "great chef", she has the gift and brilliance......but for external reasons she's not working in the kitchen as her primary job. It's no ones damn business why someone makes a personal decision to stay or leave a career. But don't think that everyone that has the "gift of talent" pursues it. Life has it's distractions. The best don't always rise to the surface.

When your peers (not only ones that vote for the Beard awards) consistantly deem you a "great chef" that's when the title sticks. I think anyone who's serious about the culinary arts can clearly distinguish between a "great chef" and a chef/personality thats great (the Emeril verses Adria example). Steve makes the case that there should be different levels of "great chef".........because it you hold Ducasse and Adria up as mearly "great chefs" you have to wipe away the title "great chef" from many really outstanding chefs. Some of which I think it would be very unfair to call mearly "great cooks" or "really good chefs". As for females being harder on each other.............I think there may be some truth to that when it comes to attracting the opposite sex, women can be brutal to each other. But I don't see that behavior in well functioning work places. In kitchens we might pick on someone who isn't carrying their weight, we might be tough on someone who needs to be tougher..........but that doesn't break down to sexist behavior. The example of the hand placed on the flat top doesn't break down to a sexist behavior. It's just as likely to happen to a weak female as a weak male. That childish (shouldn't be allowed) behavior is about being tough, teaching (something). Which is seperate from actual sexist behavior or racism. I've been treated poorly by a sexist chef whom happened to be a different nationality then myself. But that behavior came from someone with a real lack of education so I didn't take the actions personally (when I look back-even though at the time I did take it personally). When a women is harder on another women it's out of competition which is different then being sexist, in my opinion. Competition is good..........but for many women it's not comfortable. We play nice (mostly) as children playing barbie unlike boys who run each other over with their trucks. I think that's why we take it as an "attack" and try to label it as sexist. One more comment: I think the years estimated that we have to 'put in' is greatly understated. I think it's very rare that in 3 to 5 years you've paid any dues. I think the 14 hour, 6 or 7 days a week example typically lasts for the majority of your career in this business. Around the age of 40 most chefs cut back to 10 hour days. But those are the hours of typical chefs. Look at Steve, he probably will achieve a "great chef" standing in his life time (he has the respect from many already)..........but he has choosen not to work the typical hours/typical job that would get him that status much sooner. Thank-goodness for men like him who also see the insanity subjected to people who work in this profession. He makes this industry stronger by not breaking down traditional sexist lines. At one time this industry was very sexist, but with the onserge of culinary grads the whole industry has progressed at a rapid speed.

So understated, so right! Eventually a persons modivation to remain in the kitchen grows past "I love to cook. Or. I cook to show love.". I think many females do enter this career with that emotion flowing through their blood. But years down the line it becomes something far deeper then that. Those that don't work past that emotion don't remain in the kitchen. The work/hours/life style gets the better of them........henseforth the large number of people who enter this field but don't remain. I can't find the right words to explain why I'm still here in this profession (long after my peers have left), perhap one of our other female chefs can better explain this? It's sort of an obsession, a drive to learn, to better myself, to explore a subject thats really fasinating and ever changing, I'm a craftsman driven to turn this into my art- or at least find the art before I die. This is a personal journey for me. I made the leap in previous posts to assume that others feel the same way (male or female). We work quitely to satisfy ourselves, that's who we work for. There are tons of great chefs working with-out recieving any notable recognition............recognition is a seperate goal one must work toward. The best of the best aren't always well known to the public. As Cheffette eluded to. Sometimes it's the squeakie wheel that gets noticed. I was shocked at first to learn that chefs hire pr companies............I had no idea. This really is a business and there are MANY chefs who don't work that angle, don't care about that angle. They work quitely for their own personal satisfaction and no critic or title will mean more to them then knowing in their own heart- that they are good. Of course there are always exceptions! I still say that in general women think/act differently then men when it comes to their career and personal life (even what we seek as emotional forfillment). The example of SF having many great female chefs is what I believe the beginning of our future. When there are more women, there will be more recognition, acceptance, mentoring, etc......

I think the bottom line comes down to numbers. There just aren't alot of female chefs (at least in the US). If we were 50% of the working head chefs or even 50% of the kitchen work force thru out the country it would seem unbalanced that more men are given "great chef" status. But as things stand now I'm not convienced that the numbers are out of balance. I agree that there are possibly tons of reasons why the women aren't working in mass in kitchens (several examples already mentioned). The strange thing (that stands out to me) is there are other industries that are dominated by females where they are payed low rates and have poor work conditions. It seems to me that the kitchen should be equally as apealing to female worker. The only difference I can think of is: they won't find other females there for support. Perhaps females don't like to work in male dominated atmospheres? In my own area, I'm not aware of any Head Chef in the country clubs that are female. I'm only aware of 1 female sous chef and she's a co-sous with a male. I see more females in self-owned smalled food service businesses. In small privately owned food businesses the numbers might be fairly even male to female. But when it comes to working for others-thats where the females aren't in kitchens.

I can see why more people haven't posted their thoughts on this topic after reading how my thoughts have been attacked both subtely and overtly, then finally dismissed as if never posted. Attacking a post because a opinion contains a link to something that you believe has held you down in your personal life has nothing to do with the topic. There's personal and there's opinion. Blurring those lines and pleading wounded is not how a strong female works either professionally or nonprofessionally. Independant women don't draw the weak in to support their stand, they stand on their own regardless. In a mans world (which the kitchen still is dominated by men) this conversation would be shut down, silenced. Male dominated work places run more on facts, action=reaction. Many women don't understand this difference. Women are just as capable as men (in general) to succeed in the kitchen. Listen to women, here us tell you "we typically worked harded then our male counter parts to recieve equal status". The world doesn't run on fairness nor does the work place. Educating, forwarning of the reality should not be silenced. It's only thru awareness that change happens.

Oops............I didn't mean to imply your past wasn't bright...........finding the right words is hard and I obviously chose the wrong words. I sincerely appolgize! I just wish you the best! I understand (I think) why you and others repeatably mentioned success in the form of a title, because that is the topic. I was attempting to point out that there are people that don't measure success with titles and perhaps thats why they don't seek them out. Maybe thats why they don't enter competitions, etc........ I personally see females as a group that tends to put others in their lifes first........... and that could be a real contributing reason why more women aren't "great chefs".

Wow, theres not mich I can say in response to the last couple posts.........other then I really do feel for you and hope your future is MUCH brighter. I'm sorry if anyone viewed my posts as arugmentative, thats not my intent. At work there are no excuses, thats whining. I'm just trying to mention that things are complicated. Womens rights were just as real as the civil rights movement. It takes numbers of people who cross over into sex or racially dominated careers before the majority loose their strong hold and actually change their opinions. Some careers have obvious incentitives like good pay, decent working conditions. Working in a kitchen typically has: very few benefits, no daily comforts (we stand all day in unbearable heat), job security, it's low paying and until recently a career that people thought wasn't honorable. As to the physical aspects, wise people figure out how to do things more easily then using brute force. I have 100 lb bags of flour, but I certainly don't carry them to my bin, etc... Eventually strenght becomes an issue for men too. Often they obtain back or knee injuries which slow them down. As we age things even out between the sexes in the kitchen. Men become over paid and replaced by cheaper younger men. Those of you in this profession should look around, see who's working. Where have the elders gone? Did they leave on their own accord or were they replaced? Did they move out of the kitchen because the wanted to or because they needed to? How many men recieve great chef statis over the age of 50 verses women who acheive that title later in life? And I also was trying to say that age and social pressures often can tame your goals. Goals change as your perception of them change. I used to greatly admire people who were at the top of our (and several other) professions. Until I started to really understand the sacrifices they made. I personally don't think some of the sacrifices people make worth the reality of the success. That doesn't mean you shouldn't strive for your goals, strive to be your best. Aim to be the best, personally. Success isn't something someone gives to you in a title. We teach our children it's not winning or loosing that counts, it's how you played the game. Some people actually believe that. I do.