Pan

I agree with Bux's opinion, which he voiced very diplomatically. I was going to make a much more definitive statement, along the lines of "Sorry, there is no such thing as a tasty Purdue chicken," but suffice it to say that if you can demonstrate that there's such a thing as a Purdue chicken that hasn't had cod liver oil added to its feed, I might consider the slim possibility that one could ever be tasty in comparison to a free-range organic chicken. I think the real story is that many people can't taste the cod liver oil in the factory chickens, and that's OK because there are doubtless a lot of tastes I can't perceive, too (soapy cilantro? huh?). I don't always taste the cod liver in factory-farmed chickens, either -- that depends on what part of the chicken I'm eating and how it's sauced, etc. -- but no way would I ever propose that there's a likelihood of a Purdue chicken being better than a "tasteless" (?!) free range one, unless that's a function of differences in how the birds were cooked. We might take this discussion further and suggest that there are probably a lot of people who can't taste the difference between a poor-quality supermarket tomato and a really great tomato, etc., etc. And an additional cost is not worth it for a customer who doesn't notice the difference. Perception of differences in quality has a lot to do with perception of value. So keep getting the Purdue chicken, but consider being less resentful of people who taste differences that are not apparent to you. It's not that they're being snobs, but that their sense of taste is physically different from yours, and it seems to me that life is too short to spend resenting people for having a sharper or merely different sense of this and that. And in exchange, I won't go around calling people freaks for dismissing cilantro as "soapy." That's what it tastes like to them.

kangarool, I imagine your photos are different from mine, so even though your memories have faded, I would think that a post on the Li Family thread would be interesting. The restaurant in Melbourne looks way fancier and more formal than the rather nondescript surroundings in the Li compound in Beijing, no doubt with prices to match.

You think Dean & Deluca is so good? Almost everyone I know in New York spends their time avoiding it. Why don't you wish for someplace like Fairway or Zabar's instead? Actually, from what I remember, the big Safeway off Market St. (near Duboce? I forget the cross streets, but I think it's at the end of a MUNI line or three) had very good produce and condiments at good prices, from what I remember. Do you have comparable supermarkets in Atlanta? Not good enough for you?

The name has been changed. The chicken feet at World Tong are fine, just not better than the big dim sum eating halls I sometimes go to in Manhattan. You eat them by picking them up with chopsticks, eating the skin, cartilege and so forth, and leaving the bones on your plate.

Yeah. In my neck of the woods, they're called closed-circuit televisions, and their presence is sometimes noted by a sign in the front of the store saying "Smile, you're on candid camera!" Do you like the Breyer's ice cream commercial with the little boy who can't pronounce the names of all the preservatives and stabilizers in other brands of ice cream, anyway? I usually dislike commercials, and that's one of my favorite food commercials.

Yeah. In my neck of the woods, they're called closed-circuit televisions, and their presence is sometimes noted by a sign in the front of the store saying "Smile, you're on candid camera!" Do you like the Breyer's ice cream commercial with the little boy who can't pronounce the names of all the preservatives and stabilizers in other brands of ice cream, anyway? I usually dislike commercials, and that's one of my favorite food commercials.

I can't resist asking whether there's a Winn Dixie in Myrtle Beach. That name always amuses me, because you know that's one chain that has no aspirations to open any branches north of the Mason-Dixon Line.

Karen, I've never been to the place, but I've passed it dozens of times. Here's their menupages.com page.

I eat out by myself frequently. I bring reading material only occasionally, and usually just relax and discreetly take in the scene. I think that a lot of the time, we New Yorkers don't give ourselves time to relax enough, and mealtimes are good times to dedicate to that purpose, when that's possible.

I've done more than hear about them; I've tasted them, and they're delicious! yahoo.com search results for "white poppy seeds" yahoo.com image search results for "white poppy seeds" So, are we ever gonna see any pictures of any of your ice cream? I hope so.

Yeah, but what's even more reasonable is for the dolt to tell her in advance he's not going to eat. She can hold THAT against him. ← Agreed on that.

That screams "very expensive and overpriced" to me. Perhaps Food Emporium is economical in Westchester County, but I doubt it. I have always avoided Food Emporium.

In the Food Noir thread, where this topic came up, I mentioned that burnt onions baked in the chicken fat is great. Burnt carrot slices (as long as they're not completely carbonized) cooked in the same manner are also pretty good. Does blackened redfish count, now that I guess it's no longer new or trendy?

Which reminds me of my worst dinner guest... A good friend's husband, back East. He's Orthodox Jewish, and for him she keeps a Kosher home, though she's happily tucked into lobster etc. when she and I have had "girls' night out" dinners. So I invited them over, carefully prepared a vegetarian (pareve) meal using only Kosher ingredients. He wouldn't touch it. Not a bite. Because my dishes and pots & pans weren't Kosher.[...] ← No mystery there, Suzy. You're talking about religious law. It's certainly reasonable for you not to invite him back, but holding his observance of religious law against him doesn't make sense to me. The law is the law.

Not in the slightest. It's a green, leafy vegetable with a head, and it's related to cabbage: Results for a Yahoo! image search for kohlrabi. The jicama is apparently a bean plant whose taproot is eaten, but the rest of which is highly toxic. Thanks for stimulating me to do this research on jicama, because I had no idea that it was a bean plant!!

Oh, in terms of specific food items, you'd get most information from people like chengb02 who actually lives part of the year in Beijing, and of course our Hong Kong contigent (aprilmei et al.). But I really enjoyed the pickles wherever I was in China. Raw vegetables may be dangerous, but I rationalized that if it was even lightly pickled, that offered some protection. Perhaps false, but I thought it was worth the risk to eat the pickles. In Beijing, spicy, tasty pickles can be ordered in dumpling houses, along with your dumplings and such (very good dumplings in Beijing, among many other places). I also enjoyed the variety of pastries available at the back of the ground floor of the Beijing Shopping Centre on Wangfujing. If your son has the opportunity to visit a market or multifarious food/medicine stores of any kind, they're well worth visiting. In Changchun, there was a sleepy (at the time I was there) indoor market with everything from people cooking flatbread with various toppings to order to a hardware store. In Shanghai, it's interesting just to walk up Nanjing Road and walk into the food/medicine stores that open onto the street. The variety of jerky, dried foodstuffs, preserved foodstuffs, medicines, sausages, etc. is amazing. Back to the flatbread, something like Indian nan -- that seems to be a Northern and Northeastern specialty. Vendors sell it on side streets and -- if there are any left -- hutong in Beijing. You can get it with lamb, for example. It's very inexpensive and tasty and they cook it up to order while you wait. Of course, he'll also have Beijing Ka Ya (Beijing Roasted Duck, aka Beijing Duck). It's available in many places, and the best place we found for it was in no guidebook and had no Roman lettering on its outdoor sign, from what I remember. I'm really sorry that I don't have the pictures from one of our two trips there, because I can't remember the address or the name of the major street it was on, but the way we chose the restaurant is that it seemed to be -- and was -- filled with happy local or at least Chinese people. Your son can use that technique, too. Shanghai is famous for having good food in general. One of the things it's famous for is its dumplings and noodle soups, and places serving things like that for breakfast and lunch are all over the city, from what I could tell (every few blocks). Once again, they're cheap and good. Shanghai is also famous for its cold dishes; are you familiar with some of those? Spicy cabbage, kaufu (wheat gluten in sesame paste with mushrooms and bamboo shoots), mock duck, etc., etc. I had cold dishes in Shanghai that are unavailable in New York Shanghai restaurants, the best of which are totally blown away by a merely average-to-good restaurant in Shanghai. Of course, the hot dishes are also delicious there. Your son should go for dim sum in Hong Kong. If he picks well (look through some of those threads I linked above), he'll have a memorable experience. I still remember my lunch at the Star House 18 years ago! No, I don't remember all the specific things I ate, but I do remember I pigged out and paid very little (Hong Kong is much more expensive now) and that it was all wonderful! I haven't been to Xian, but there are many Muslims there, and I understand that it's known for lamb dishes. Your son will have a great time, and any amount of Mandarin he picks up will be helpful. If he didn't pack a dictionary, phrase book and such-like, he should have little trouble finding them in bookstores when he arrives.

I guess there are some farmers' markets with inexpensive items for sale somewhere, but that hasn't been my experience at the ones in New York City. Nor do I see why farmers shouldn't charge whatever they can get.

Oh Pan, a lot of people, including many of our friends from KL actually prefer Canadian durian.[...] ← Prefer it to what's available in the US and not Malaysian durian, I guess. But you have to consider a risk/benefit analysis. Disclaimer: I'm not recommending for anyone to smuggle anything from anywhere to anywhere.

Business Trip to Beijing 12May-23May, Any Restaurant Suggestions? Beijing dining, recommendations Beijing, Xian, Guilin/Yangshuo, Changchun, upcoming trip (4 pages) Dinner at the Li Family Restaurant, Beijing Shanghai and Hong Kong Old Shanghai Moon, Must-visit restaurant in Shanghai Hong Kong Eating Out, Any recommendations? You're welcome.

Bux, I think we're looking at the same thing and seeing it from different angles. In a time and place without supermarkets and refrigeration, if you absolutely can't stock up on food during times of good weather, no matter how much effort you put into it (or do the equivalent by borrowing money against your harvest, with all the danger that's fraught with), I don't think that makes you merely poor; it probably means you're already suffering from hunger, exhaustion, or illness and may starve during the drought season (or whatever). Putting enough effort into gathering and preserving some food during the lush part of the year doesn't mean you're not poor, but it does mean you're not starving and have enough energy to do whatever is necessary to search out additional supplies to preserve and put aside for later.

I'd have to disagree at least somewhat. Preservation was a factor whenever people started keeping food to guard against times of scarcity, whether merely seasonal (winter, drought season, monsoon season) or periodic (severe droughts that would otherwise lead to severe famines, locust plagues, etc.). If you save enough for a rainy day (so to speak), does that really mean you have an "excess"?

The only place I see them is when a local mosque is selling them as a fundraising activity. I have a number of African-American friends who were raised eating soul food and although as adults they're all familiar with bean pie, it was not a standard item in their households during their childhoods. Ostensibly, it was developed by a Muslim baker in the Bedford-Stuyvesant section of the Bronx (NYC). It's a popular dish in the Black Muslim community - it would seem that the supposed historical origin makes sense.[...] ← Owen, do you have a source for that? I've been discussing the pie in the Southern Food Culture forum, after initially asking whether bean pies were traditional in the South. Did the concept not exist until the Nation of Islam made it up? Its spicing does resemble the spicing for traditional Southern pies like sweet potato pie.

Only in Southern New York. ← In all seriousness, it is not traditional here, except perhaps among a very particular segment of the population (more about that below), and at least some sources state that it is a Southern type of pie: about.com Southern U.S. Cuisine: Bean Pie Recipe But here's a very interesting SF Gate article giving a different take on its origins: The identity and origins of Wallace Fard Muhammad, the founder of the sect, appear to be in dispute, but the Nation of Islam is most associated with Elijah Muhammad, who was born in Sandersville, Georgia and subsequently moved to Detroit and later, Chicago, where the Nation of Islam now has its headquarters. The way I was introduced to bean pie was that some convenience stores in Manhattan sell small sweet potato pies and bean pies made by what I believe to be a black Muslim (whether Nation of Islam or not, I don't know) commercial bakery in Brooklyn. But they're certainly not a commonplace item in bakeries here, unfortunately. My web searching related to this post has shown that people in various different parts of the country make different kinds of sweet and savory bean pies. It's also been observed that bean pie of the type referred to in the SF Gate article is spiced similarly to sweet potato pie. I'm not convinced that we've clearly established the origins of the pie yet, or how old the concept and tradition really are. [Edit: I just bumped a thread on bean pie, and we can have further discussion on the history and origins of the pie there.]

What's Joe Louie?

From oignon in French, I presume.