stellabella

ronfland: you make some very good points, but i'm not wasting my time "moralizing." note that I'm not a newbie. it may be that part of the objection to this piece is a feeling that there's a capricious system for determining who can bash whom and where and when. stick around and you'll see what i mean. i feel very strongly about the need for a writer to know his audience. i felt insulted by the tone of that piece, as did others, it would seem. when we say that, we mean it. klc, i don't expect the "seriousness" of the nation here. that wasn't my point. i said that i expected arguments that focus on issues, not arguments tha resort to ad hominem attacks. there's a difference. you can be edgy and biting, humorous, provocative, all while staying focused on issues. reading your piece, and then the comments of other site administrators which followed--i felt like i'd walked into the eight grade boys' locker room after PE. nothing you have ever written here before--that i've read--and i have read many of your posts with interest and true gratitude for your knowledge and insight--has made me feel that way.

steven, i can answer this from my end. the reason this piece is upsetting to me is because, like schonfeld and others, i care about this place. klc's piece was not only insulting towards schrambling, it was insulting towards us, the members, whether klc intended for it to be or not. and i'll give him the benefit of the doubt. i have no problem with writing here that i am a smart, savvy, educated and discriminating consumer of print media--whether i tend to act silly at times, or whether i know as much about food as the next guy. EDIOTED TO ADD: the egullet webzine articles thus far have been pretty good--informative, humorous, smart and sometimes a little edgy--but never nasty. i am a long time subscriber to the nation, harper's, the economist. i like to read a good panning of george bush, for example. but when someone takes him to task, i want to read a critique that is thoughtful, provocative and informative. if i were to pick up one of these magazines and read a piece criticizing ken lay or lynne cheney, both of whom deserve every ounce of ill will the rest of us can muster, i would NOT expect to read a series of ad hominem attacks. whether the attacks can be substantiated with "evidence" is irrelevent--they are still ad hominem attacks. and not only are they offensive to the person to whom they are directed--they are offensive to an audience who wants to focus on issues, and who wants a comprehensive and intelligent discussion of how said target has failed. my question for you would be: who is your audience? who would you like it to be? my gut reaction to it was anger. i've just been on the stairmaster and sweated it out, and i still feel angry. egullet is too good for this. so are you, shaw.

i'm with both of you on this one, and with retired chef. THIS is egullet? so what if it's true? i am really embarrassed to see this on the front page of the web-zine. what is this, 8th grade? "She really deserves it. She's had it coming a long time." huh? what about, "Be a bigger person and ignore her."

i'm a terrible meddler and i always want to change the recipe somehow, except, usually, if baking. i find that these days i am more inclined to read techniques than to follow recipes.

Anna, exactly. It's really a great little book. Oh, and it IS a cookbook--though I confess to not having cooked from it yet.

Madhur Jaffrey seems to be on almost everyone's list. She has demystified Indian cooking for me. I am taking baby steps with it, and I feel confident. Last year I bought How to Read a French Fry by our own Russ Parsons, and I found it very interesting. It's food science, which actually helps me more than reading recipes--although nothing helps me more in the kitchen than actual trial and error, of course. How fascinaiting to learn that not all potatoes mash up the same, that some onions are better raw, some better cooked, what happens to oil during deep frying. Maybe this says something about my analytical brain--I find it very engaging reading. My most used cookbooks right now are three 3-ring binders which are slowly filling with pages from magazines, web print-outs, xeroxes, and my own notes. One of the binders is devoted solely to egullet gleanings. These are some of the best recipes I have. EDIOT TO ADD: Also the stuff from egullet is so descriptive. I love the fact that I ahve pages that begin, "So, last night I...." or "Yeah, well..." And I want to stress that in my little egullet binder everyone gets credit! Great thread, BTW.

Here's one: Caboose Pimiento Cheese--for sandwiches, etc. a block of medium sharp cheddar jar of pimientos mayo to your taste 2 T. sugar use the grating attachment on the food processor to grate the cheese, then put the grated cheese and the jar of pimientos and their juice, mayo, sugar, into the processor bowl with the blade attachment and pulse til blended. this is how we make our PC at the Caboose [sandwich shop] in Rutledge and people rave over it. at first i thought the idea of sugar was repulsive but now i like it. now, if i make PC at home--which is rare--i would use sharp cheddar, and i actually like to use white cheddar. in adition to the mayo and pimientos i'd add some cracked black pepper, some finely minced garlic, and some finely minced pitted cocktail olives. one southern living recipe also called for adding chopped pecans. i didn't realize til i moved to rutledge that pimiento cheese is a southern thing, and my northern transplant neighbors explained to me that this was unheard of to them. i grew up on it--that horrible nasty pre-made stuff from the store. once i had it homemade i was transformed. another distinctly southern food is red velvet cake. this i did not know either. other distinctly southern foods that don't seem distinctly southern? ron, it's not the manners i miss. it's the longer days, the warmer weather, and the iced tea. i love traveling up north to see friends and family, but when i get back home to the Rut i always feel an overwhelming sense of relief. i love the vast expanses of pecan groves, junked cars, evangelical churches in old bombed out schools--the whole thing. i think the south is a really stupid place, but i love it and i UNDERSTAND it like no other place. and conversely, everything that northerners find charming and quaint about the south i don't care for at all.

steven, once again i SOOOO agree with you. i would really like to see more of a discussion of the notion of "service" and the frequent lack of it. i did my stint as a waitron--five years in a trendy popular mid--priced eatery in one of atlanta's most desirable in-town neighborhoods. the place was popular for its consistently decent food, hearty brunches, a good dessert menu [several local reknowned pastry chefs spun off from here , now have their own shops], and a good mid-priced wine selection. it's been in business 20 years, still going strong. not fine-dining, but not low end, either. i was a good server--i hustled and i had good rapport with customers. i often had records sales on weekends. one night the owner asked me if i'd hostess one night for his friend who had a fancy restaurant in buckhead--the hostess was sick and they were pretty desperate. so i went. i will never forget it. the other servers treated me like i was some homeless bum off the street. one waitress took me aside and said, Look, watch me. she seated the next customers and as she did opened their napkins across their laps with a little flourish. then she turned to me and sneered, "this is a FINE dining establishment, not M--'s" i thought to myself, but did not say, "Excuse me, girlfriend, but you are a WAITRESS." thus i reveal my own prejudice. for me, it was an interim job that paid the bills until i got "real" job teaching. i would like to think that that attitude never came through to my customers. i am proud of my work, regardless of what it is. i have a work ethic. i have always had co-wokers who clearly lack a work ethic. add to that that working in a restaurant can be extremely stressful, and that the front of the house staff are often at odds with the kitchen. i'm guessing many of us have read bourdain's book about the industry. i found it to be painfully accurate & reflective of my own experience. if i remember, one of the reasons bourdain seemed scornful of many servers was because they had that "this is not my life" attitude. on the flip side, i am always really impressed when i eat out and i have a server, some young kid working his way throgh college, who gives great service and really takes pride in his work. about a year ago my husband and i had dinner out and had such a server. our dining companions paid the bill with credit card and took our cash. they totally pimped this server, leaving him 11% and thus stealing from us. [i actually posted about this incident.] imagine this scenario from the server's point of view. at some point do you stop busting your ass for no-nothing, cheap, pedestrian "diner"? there are so many factors that can determine the kind of service you're going to get on any given nite, or indeed at any given moment.

i've lived my whole life south of the mason dixon line, and i still don't know what defines "southern manners." i would go as far as to say that southerners tend to "act" nice but they don't mean it--is that an example of "manners"? i'm not being coy--i'm genuinely curious. i think i'm a pretty well-mannered person, but i couldn't describe the manners as uniquely southern. dave, thanks for the clarification. there is a thread somewhere on cane syrup. i knew that molasses was the byproduct of sugar refining, but i was confused by the fact that most cane syrups these days taste like molasses. marketing does indeed seem to be the culprit. the cane producers, in order to increase their profits, are refining the sugar from the cane juice--yes? so what's left is darker and more molasses-like. i use a product from Miss. called country made ribbon cane syrup--it's lighter in color than molasses and thicker, but, most notably, sweeter. anyone who loves cane syrup should search this thred--there are some good prodcuts listed. IMO one of the qunitessential southern delicacies is skillet cornbread with butter and cane syrup.

every time i order an old fashioned before dinner i get something watery and acrid. i can't understand why bartenders can't make a good old-fashioned. is it too labor intensive? and why has so much ritualistic drinking emerged from kentucky? the mint julep even has its own "cup"--a high-sided silver tumbler. this must be the legacy of our friends the Victorians.

I believe that Plotnicki has earned his second round of applause this month. Everybody, all together now: I am a member of egullet. I am special. My parents are special. My teachers are special. They care about me. I will do my best every day in every way to succeed. I am somebody. I am important. And now let's stand for the pledge to the flag.

i, who have of late bemoaned the absence of the good old egullet in-your-face, am now just wanting to clarify what exactly we are talking about? because i'm lost. wilfrid, could you please take the spotlight and do a professorial dance? what is the central issue now?

i am totally in agreement here. no one is more angered by social injustice than i am [though there are plenty who act more aggressively to try to "right" social wrongs]. but this is not about social injustice or money. if the poor guy saves for ten years to buy his wife's anniversary dinner, whereas the movie mogul eats whatever he wants whenever he wants it, is the poor guy more "deserving"? maybe he has beat his poor wife every day for the last ten years, but he really loves her, in his way, and this is how he shows it. the chef can never know that, can s/he? the chef can't really be expected to decide which of two clients is the more "deserving" of the fine food. this is about the desire to eat. of course there are folks who expect, demand, bully for VIP treatment; we all know these obnoxious clowns, we've waited on them, we live with them, we work with them, whatever. as long as the customer makes a polite and reasonable request, i don't see how this is somehow an attack on egalitarian values. if, magically, i became wealthy, and the darling of the world's most celebrated chefs, and found myself treated to exquisite unique meals every time i dined out, i'd sing the hallelujah chorus. i'd also try to share my good fortune with as many folks as possible, and do my best to be a good citizen of the earth.

Liz, six pages reduced to two succinct and well-stated sentences. Bravo! It's too bad that these discussions always end up with accusations of snobbery. "Elitism" is one of those words with a negative connotation--the actual denotation of the word is pretty simple: the belief that certain conditions are more suitable, more appropriate, more preferable, to others. And most of us in this community, according to this definition, are elitists. Do you think Honda makes better cars than Ford? Do you send your kids to private school? Would you rather wear a pair of Birkenstocks than cheap knock-offs from Pay-less? Do you prefer Valrhona to Baker's chocolate? Money isn't really the issue here. It's how we choose to spend what we have. I get criticized constantly by my own family for being an elitist and a snob. I make less than every single member of my family, but I know more about food. It's hard for me to indulge my tastes for good food in their presence without offending one of them. Invariably, if I prefer to buy a more expensive bar of baking chocolate, I am "putting them down" because they opt for the bargain brand. I hate my family, so I have to come to defense of my fellow egulleters. I don't think anyone participating in this conversation has intended to make others feel inferior. I agree with Steven Shaw on this one. I can afford fine chocolate but I can't afford to eat at Gordon Ramsey three times a week [the air far alone would be a killer]. If others do and they want to write about it here, fine, great, good. And if they ordered off the menu, fine, great, good. I think that if Plotnicki were ever to imply that someone posting here were truly inferior to him because s/he couldn't afford to eat like he does, then he'd be out of line. But that hasn't happened. He said that a person who can afford the 1958 wine is entitled to it, and I think that phrasing was misleading. Being able to afford an expensive bottle wine depends on more than one's income--it depends on one's taste and how one chooses to spend his money. I can afford that wine, too, if I skip my trip to Mexico, or don't heat my house one month. Is it really the income that is intimidating, or is it the knowledge? I look at my own family for the answer. I think an interesting spin-off would be the whole notion of service: in the last six weeks I've experienced a spate of unpleasant customer-server/cashier, etc. interactions: the rudeness seems to go both ways any more. I think there's a more general problem, the breakdown of civil behavior in social interaction.

make sure you do. i'm spending three weeks in oaxaca in june.

i may have been high on LUV but i swear that on my honeymoon in guatemala my husband and i sat underneath an avocado tree on lake atitlan and the avocados were falling off around us and they were ripe. but, like i say, i could have been high.

What is the singular of molasses? Molassi? And, Dave the Cook, what's the difference between molasses and cane syrup [pronounced SIGH- rop]?

some snarky jive hipster at a cool coffee shop on the upper west side tried to humiliate me last year when i ordered a ralph macchiato. he said, "Oh, watch the Karate Kid much? it's called a MOCkiato." ha, ha, HA. another underemployed ivey league graduate.

yep. every time we have travelled in mexico my husband and i have made a side trip into the state of michoacan--uruapan is a fairly large city, with an interesting botanical park, in michoacan--but i have always been told the whole state is involved in the avocado production. the aztecs supposedly followed large heavy meals of pork and other meats with a ripe raw avocado--they beliveed that the avocado aided digestion, i think, and as it turns out the avocado does have beneficial monounsaturated fat. a ripe avocado just picked from a huge avocado tree bears little resemblance to the mealy, tasteless fruits often available here in the states. when i'm in mexico i ask my waiter to bring me a sliced, plain raw avocado with every meal--they always have one available, and i love it with just about everything.

i was a bit surprised by the proliferation of starbucks in london, but i was also grateful for it within the first couple days of my arrival--nothing kicks jet lag like a cup of charbucks.

corn smut = shit of the gods makes sense

well, i don't know if i would have put it quite this way, but..... i only watch TFNW occasionally, but i happened to catch one of the chocolate specials earlier this week. i absolutely lost it when the guy and gal host team visited FANNIE MAE. they interviewed one of the "tasters"--she appeared to be in her mid- to late- eighties and mildly intellectually disabled. they asked her questions like, "What's the best part of your job?" and she would answer, I swear to god with her mouth full of candy, "Well, I still mwfm to mwfm the candies mwfm." it was almost not kind. sure, i laughed, but i'm sick. and the visit to hersheys, walking around the amusement park saying, "Wow! You can smell the chocolate in the background!"--boy, i'm sure that's really great after you've eaten ten bags of cotton candy and ridden the tilt-a-whirl.

simon, would you mind describing how you make them?

no one said anything about the STEAKS. thanks for the inspiration, big boy. another great piece from another great atlantan.

speaking of hands on, did anyone read the vanity fair story about ariana huffington years back, in which it was alleged that she slapped her servants? this is something i can see martha doing.