Steve Plotnicki

Picky, picky with those words. I'm pretty happy calling it a flaw if it isn't *supposed* to be there. New oak is supposed to be there because the winemaker *adds* the flavor to the wine after its made. Nobody adds brett to their wine. But you might like brett and not like new oak in your wine. But those are preferences, not evaluations.

It's a fault. It's a yeast infection that is not supposed to be in the wine. That you might like this particular fault, that's another thing. But it is a fault. I think it's gross. Muddy Waters sang a song about it called "Bad Smellin' Thing."

You must be getting desperate because I don't think anyone on this thread said Steve isn't entitled to his opinion. What they did object to was the way he stated it. There is no right or wrong here. Only whether you gain or lose readers. And if they lose, they are wrong in spite of the umpteen arguments you can make that say they are right. Put your finger up and check which way the wind is blowing here. Okay, time to go to my earlybird dinner.

Wait I missed this. But I don't think of Bourdain as a bastard. With all his mishegas, in the worst moments he sounds like a sweet guy. Crazy maniacal yes, but not mean-spirited. This came across as mean-spirited. Now maybe Steve didn't mean it that way, but it reads that way. If people thought AB was a mean-spirited guy, I don't think people would like his books very much.

You pronounce it like Kelsh. Yeah I know. Your assessment would be correct if most people felt like you. But if you read through this thread, it seems clear they don't. So what potentially stands to happen by staying this course, is you can alienate potential readers. That's why the argument you are making is great for graduate school, but not such a great argument for success in in the business world.

Let me come out of retirement here for a moment. This reasoning, while well intended, reminds me of the arguments my recording artists used to make about which songs should go on recordings. They used to want to put the songs they liked best on the CD's. But I used to remind them that it wasn't that easy, that if the audience didn't like their choices, then we both wouldn't be able to afford to eat at places like Trio and then post about them on eGullet. So they would compromise. And I think the next time, based on the negative reaction you are getting now, maybe you should consider the audience and what they might find objectionable. Okay, I'm going back to my shuffleboard game now.

Steve Klc - I feel that both you and Ronfland miss the point. For all I care, you can pick away at her scabs until she bleeds to death. But it isn't your intent people are objecting to, it's your tone. But I made my point on this topic about as clearly as can be. This is the last you will hear from me about it. I'm going back to not knowing who she is.

I told you those chops were too wet. Swoosh from downtown for a three-pointer for Plotnicki.

Yes, I see two therapists each week. Dr. Loosen and Dr. Thanish who both make a fortune from me. But now I have worked out a deal with Loosen where after every 12 visits I get one for free. Thanish just gives me 10% off after 12 visits. But actually I clicked the link. It was easy. You just move your curser over the words and click. Presto. It took me to that nasty article. I also actually started to read the Dave the Cook article last week but lost interest a few paragraphs in. I also once started to read Ivan's article on Blue Hill but I lost interest there as well. I haven't figured out how to program my computer to skip the loading pages and I scroll through both load pages each time I log on. So I'm stuck noticing the articles in the process. But I'm waiting for you to publish an article that I'm actually interested in. But then again, if I hadn't heard of Regina Schrambling until this thread (in fact I didn't even hear of her until somebody emailed me about this thread,) you are going to have a hard time getting my attention at the Daily Gullet.

I don't read the Daily Gullet. Somebody downloaded the article and faxed it to me.

Well that really isn't the question. Nobody has said that Steve K shouldn't be angry with her or that he shouldn't tear her a new asshole. The comment was that the Daily Gullet was not an appropriate forum for that, and that the article seemed vindictive.

I have to admit I never noticed her before this article. And I also have to admit, I never would have read the article if someone didn't email me about this thread. In fact, I never even heard her name before. That's how much of an impact she has made on me. So I don't see the point to writing this article. So she's abrasive. So what? What's the point of the tit for tat here?

I'm not afraid of Jersey. I have E-Z Pass.

Now I get to eat two doner kebabs for diner tonight by myself. But to show you what a sport I am, you can still have the doner kebab of your choice on me anytime you want. Just tell me where and when.

Sorry games over.

Times up. If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it.

What Glyn said. I challenge you to name just one Greek dish that isn't just rustic peasant food. If you can name just one, I will buy you the Doner Kebab of your choice. This contest ends in 60 seconds.

You're talking about things that happened about 2500 years ago. I think Turkish and Greek cuisine are a bit more contemporary then that don't you think?

Bullshit to what? You don't think Turkish food is more refined then Greek food or you don't think the reason is that Turkey had an aristocratic/monied class that drove a more refined cuisine?

This business of having a refined and/or sophisticated cuisine isn't really rocket scientry. If a country has had a bourgois class, chances are a refined version of the cuisine came into existence to cater to that class of people. All the great cuisines of the world seem to have had a cuisine intended for an aristocratic class, or a bourgois class. Take Indian, Moroccan cuisine, even moles in Mexico are tinkered with and balanced by people with a great amount of time on their hands. But ultimately, and this was what Fat Guy was referring to, refinement and sophistication is usually expressed through texture. Reducing things down, straining bits off, thickening things to make them smoother and to have more body, anything to make the feel more luxurous. Or a different way is the way you slice things. Paper thin ham or smoked salmon, sushi sliced just perfectly, or as we talked about in the Spanish regional thread, they way they slice the ingredients in a Tian d'Agneau which are perfect slices of lamb, tomato, eggplant, onions formed into the shape of a cake, where the thickness of the slices turns it a whole greater then the sum of its parts. In Middle Eastern cooking including Turkish, but not Greek in my knowledge, the butchers' blade in chopping the ingredients for an Adana Kebab is paramount. Not everyone's texture is the same. I guess somehwre in this post is the argument that says that once upon a time, and maybe continuing today, Turkey had a better defined aristocratic and/or middle class then Greece did. At least that's what I get out of it when I eat the cuisines.

Excuse me?

I don't have my cookbook collection here. But if I did, what I believe I would find is that the recipes of Greece pretty much evidence a rustic cuisine, even in a refined setting. Turkish recipes in my experience have more technique loaded into them, which pretty much means doing things to change the textures of meats and chicken and having a more sophisticated saucing routine. Now if you want to say that both cuisines have dishes where chunks of lamb are roasted with potatoes, well okay, that is correct. But the method one chops and forms, including the spices one uses in things like Adana Kebab are much more sophisticated kebab cookery then what you see at Greek restaurants. Even dishes like Ezme, which is a dip based on ripe tomatoes, peppers, walnuts and spices, or a properly made Imam Bayaldi which is a stuffed eggplane, do not in my knowledge have a Greek equivelent that is anywhere as sophisticated.

This discussion among the mods is an interesting one, but is sort of evading what I see is the main issue. Ethnic cuisine to me, is dependent on not having what we will call, high end, or terroir driven ingredients. It's the technique they are selling more then anything. Ed said it himself when he talked about the roast pork preparartion. But one of the things that has set the "great" restaurants apart is their use of ingredients at the high/terroir level. So if J-G relies on that level of ingredient, will it kill the food? It certainly hasn't helped Floyd Cardoz any to have that level of ingredient in his restaurant. So is this possible it might be an instance where "better" isn't better?

Fat Guy - How subtle a signal can I send them? If I just raise my left eyebrow slightly, will they know that means, go off-menu?

Both Cotats are fine, although I seem to have better luck with Frankie. In fact some of my best meals are when we start out with a bottle of Frankie for the white wine, and finish with a bottle of Hanky for the red wine.