thom

The fictional character thing was touched on briefly before. Was it a goer? If so then chalk up: Sir Harry Flashman Bertie Wooster Calvin and Hobbes Cheers Thom

Oh come on; I struggle with 'quotes' and have an aversion to emoticons. I am not the man to start scattering inter-thread links around willy-nilly. Also, living as I do in a ex-satanic mill in the impoverished slum that is Manchester, I have only nearby Cheshire as an example of what 'money' looks like. From what I can see it looks exactly like money, but more so. With extra diamonds, expensive hair, and all semblance of taste or aesthetic appreciation surgically removed. Cheers Thom

Clerkenwellian, can you confirm or deny that Simon was present the night in 'The House' on the night that you first passed? Having met the otherwise estimable Mr Majumdar, I see little in his outward apperence that screams either 'monied-looking' or 30 something'. He does like a good 'DJ-driven dance beat' though. Cheers Thom

Egullet - Successful online concept Friends Reunited - Succuessful online concept "Egullet Reunited"...? I think we're onto something here people... Last one to register a foodies/old friends themed domain name is a rotten egg! Cheers Thom

I second Dean's 'Lounge 10' recc, it slipped my mind The guys who set it up used to run the late and lamented Brasserie St Pierre and Reform restaurants in the city, and I think standards have been maintained. Opulent, Decadent, faintly ridiculous decor, and tasty (though expensive) amuse bouche style food. Interestingly I read that Ferran Adria (of El Bulli fame) is helping put together a new menu for them. Should play well to the pie and chips crowd (Atomised pie and chips made of deep-fried ocelots noses?) Cheers Thom

Badger, I was in Circle, but on Saturday night rather than Friday. Maybe someone has taken my name, it would certainly get me out of all sorts of trouble if I could claim to have an evil doppelganger... If you were there Saturday, I went with about five mates after the Ricky Hatton fight (note to Simon, he may not make the grade - fearless and great bodywork, but cuts too easy, and lacks power with the headshots). We were the drunk people eating plates of chilli chips and nachos with our fingers. Ah, I love mixing with the social creme of Manchester. I know the owner of Circle pretty well, he's a great guy called Dom. To be honest the food was 'ok' when I first ate there, but with patchy service, a dark awkward dining space and a members only policy I feared for it's future. I was suprised the chef (who had some pedigree) lasted as long as he did. New menus didn't do the trick, and in all honesty I can't ever see it working as a pure dining space. The bar food/comfort food style menu and simpler kitchen suits the needs of the clientele much better. Northern Quarter property? Hmm... There was a development office for the Northern Quarter (there was also an N4 association and a newsletter). I contacted at least one of these organisations before (actually I might have started off speaking to people at the Eastside Regeneration thing) and they gave me a list of all the new property developments planned within the Northern Quarter. Could be a useful starting point? Have you looked at space in the ICIAN development? I'm sure some of it must be A3, and its well located and will have a readymade audience as the offices and apartments continue to be developed. Beyond that? I'll rack my brains... Sandra, we have never been spanked by a 'London team' as we were by the Madridistas last night, so mention away. Which holiday Inn are you in? There seems to be a lot of them around nowadays. Juniper is an interesting one. Not too tricky to find (about 20 mins door to door from the City Centre, fairly central in Altrincham) but I'm not sure if it's what you are looking for. Jay Rayner reviewed it recently and I was his freeloading guest. His opinions echoed my own, and you should find the article on the Guardian/Observer Website. I always mention them, but our two restaurants (both Central Manchester) are pretty decent dining experiences. The Restaurant Bar and Grill is Grill style menu with Med and Asian influences, and Piccolino is classic Italian. Both serve excellent food, with buzzy, bustling surroundings. Service can be patchy in Picc and the downstairs area can be noisy. Also some find the bar in the Restaurant Bar and Grill a bit 'Cheshire', but I still eat in both a great deal if that's any recommendation? You are struglling for fine dining in the city, though The Lime Tree (about 10 mins South of city centre) is pretty good. I would be tempted to go for some good 'casual/smart' dining (I don't mean that in a 'casual slacks, ribbed loafers and cardigan' sort of way). Try Ox (Gastropub) or Choice (Modern British) in Castlefield, Gaia (Camp and New-Yorky) in Canal Street, Living Room (Trendy-trendy), Mr Thomas's Chop House (Trad British) or Croma (pizza) around Kings St/Deansgate. Mr Thomas's is on form at the mo, but not sure if Victorian Pub/hearty food is what you are after? If you want something a bit more interesting try Rafas El Ricon (or El Ricon as some call it) for tapas off Deansgate, Samsi Yakitori (Sushi/Teppanyaki and more) off Canal St, or Kro 2 (Filling Danish grub) on Oxford St. The Market Restaurant is still good fun for quirky, quality British food (and the decor looks like your great-grans living room) but it only seems to open at the weekends at the minute. Hope that helps, let me know if you want more (yes, even more) detail. Cheers Thom

Sandra, A good question... Not sure how much you know about the restaurant. It was meant to be pretty good (on a Mancunian rather than a London scale) before the change-around, and I had heard standards (which were as expected in a celeb chef's diffusion restaurant) have been maintained. The problem was the room (which some found a bit dull/cheap/uninspiring), as the restaurant was in a fairly bland 'Quality Hotel' (Trades Descriptions would have a field day), which I think has latterly become a Tulip. The fact that the hotel is right in the middle of a pretty grim industrial park only adds to the feeling that this is not a 'special' eating experience. That said, you are walking distance from Old Trafford (don't mention Real Madrid), The Lancs cricket Ground, the impressive Lowry arts centre and Daniel Liebskind's Imperial War Museum North. If you are not tied to the location, I would consider making the trip to the city centre (5 mins away). As previously noted elsewhere Manchester is not famed for it's formal, quality dining, but you may have more fun (and nicer surroundings) at MPW The River Rooms at The Lowry Hotel, or possibly Le Mont (though recent reports have been patchy). If you have a specific set of conditions (cuisine, level of formality, price, location) and would like any more suggestions. I'd be happy to oblige. Cheers Thom

The most interesting parts of this thread are the various eclectic and inventive spellings of 'Worcestershire sauce'. Fab stuff anyway, works in virtually everything; especially stews, casseroles, stir frys, tomato sauces, marinades etc etc. I draw the line at adding it to ice cream. Actually, maybe with a really bitter choc-chip... Equal fun can be had from asking non-Brits to spell British cheeses (Red Leicester and Wensleydale - which some people spell Wednesleydale...) are particular favourites. Cheers Thom

Ehhh, simpler times. We had nothing back then, but by 'eck we were 'appy.

Tony, Ahh... don't get me started, there is a whole world of difference between Lancashire folks and the denizens of Yorkshire. Don't forget, although places like the Magpie Cafe in Whitby hog the tourist trade, fish and chips was invented in Stalybridge, Manchester. Ok, on a slightly more serious/less regionalist note: Once you're talking fish and chips in 'Pubs' (or restaurants, brasseries etc.) then you have already moved beyond the traditional. Chefs might make fish and chips in traditional ways, but lets face it, fish and chip 'shops' (expressly excluding Chinese chippies, kebab shops, or pizza places) are the home of 'traditional fish and chips, and to get 'minted peas' in such a place would be very, very suprising indeed. Cheers Thom

Chaps, I think the Ivy still stands up pretty well actually. Booking a week or so in advance can be a pain, but I find it's not too much of a problem to get a same-day table for two mid-week. This ties in nicely with my occasional Wednesday stop-overs in London. The fish and chips I had there a couple of weeks ago was as good as Sheekeys I thought. Like Simon I am a fanatical mushy-pea traditionalist, and these had been pureed with mint! I grudgingly had to admit that actually it worked better than it had any right to. Batter and 'proper' chips were as good as I have had. I've also had seabass with chinese veg, and old favourite liver and bacon recently. Both were very good indeed. The wine list always seems interesting, with a couple of decent Chablis. Last time though I had a Pinot Grigio, and it came served in very peculiar glasses - tiny bowl, green glass stem. Am I being a wine idiot, is there some arcane reason for this? Anyhow, sometimes you just can't beat good, tasty comfort food. On the basis of the reviews above it could be time to put Sheekeys back on my list of impending meals. Cheers Thom

Yep, Not just "going" but "thriving". Considering the amount of residential development they are doing around the Church Lane/Ringley Rd area (pokey 3 bed town houses in North Manchester - £220k!) I think it's only going to do better business still. Their Minestrone soup is still smashing too. I take it you went to Stand College? I've just employed a girl who went there, and she was also reminiscing about skiving in free periods having coffee, ice cream and soup (though not in the same bowl). Cheers Thom

Vanessa, Well spotted, I was lurking (or possibly even skulking), but I missed your prompt at the time. Anyhow, shops to get Pancetta from: To be honest although I went to Uni in the fine city of Liverpool I didn't go in for purchasing a lot of Pancetta (five packets of strange foreign instant noodles for a pound and Warbutons toasties, yes, pancetta, no). I know the city pretty well now, and can't call to mind a decent deli or a food hall in the city centre that could supply you. Possibly there is a more knowlegable Scouser on the board who can advise as to whether the smarter/trendier suburbs have such a thing? (insert your own regionalist gag about paradox of Liverpool and smart suburbs here) Now, if you were to take the time to whizz down the M62 (come on, it's only 30 minutes) to Manchester I can be of more help. Selfridges food hall definitely do pancetta, as I've bought some myself. That said, it took a couple of attempts to get the girl behind the counter to understand I wanted to dice it rather than have 'sandwich' style slices. Beyond that, try some of the delis. Love Saves the Day (Tib St, and now just underneath Deansgate Station too) would have it I would have thought. Also, if you have reason to visit the suburbs rather than the centre try Roma in Whitefield (just off the M60/Whitefield tram stop, and recommended by Nigel Fort); it does good Italian fare including award winning home made ice cream. In Didsbury you should find what you're looking for at Fred's Deli on Lapwing Lane (may have recently changed it's name?), or R&M Deli (home to the ever chatty Bogda) on Burton Road (both nor far from the M60). Happy hunting. Cheers Thom Edit: Ironically I forgot the internet option... Try www.esperya.com. Great Italian produce. Edit again: More Ironically still, I've just noticed that Vanessa's post mentioned Esperya anyway. Note to self... Read properly before you reach for your keyboard...

No, that was my cowardy-custard 'First day at big school I don't know anyone' stare. Easily confused. To be honest with all the glassy-eyed faces, intense discussions, and Simon rabbiting on about some guy called 'Billy the prophet' I feared egullet might have some cult like initiation for newbies. I stayed back for fear of becoming a ritual sacrifice, or having to daub my face with fois gras or something. Cheers Thom

Hmmm... I'm first on? Then again, I suppose I was first to leave, and those two things may be connected. Other people will I'm sure fill in the gory detail, but I have to say Andy should feel pretty smug for such a big turn out for his birthday. Unaccustomed as I am to meeting you lot in real life, I hid in the corner with some of my editorial colleagues. The fact there was so many of you, and that you had circled the chairs like cowboys wagons didn't make the experience any less daunting. Anyway, you all seemed jolly nice, and it was interesting to get to chat to Andy and Simon (the pun-meister) in person at last Incidentally Andy was exactly as I expected him. So was Simon. One of the previous statements is not a compliment... So come on chaps, what happened after the fourth or fifth flaming wotsit? Who did what? And to whom? Cheers Thom

Andy, Yes, in retrospect the 'Clerkenwell' thing did cloud the waters a bit. Sorry about that... Regarding your promised physical attack, I take comfort from the fact that I now know what you look like, whereas I can still hang around the bar in glorious anonymity. See you all there. Cheers Thom

Oh come on... "Move the event"... Convinient? Yes. Exciting, challenging and technically illegal? Almost certainly not. Live a little people. Cheers Thom

We could kidnap him, he's only up the road. This from a recent press release: "Dale DeGroff is in town and will be behind the bar at Match EC1 in Clerkenwell from 6 to 9pm on Wednesday 22 January mixing delicious whiskey cocktails from the Match Winter Menu". So come on guys, I'm sure at least some of the celebrity chef stalkers here are adept with chloroform pads, face masks and dragging struggling bodies into unmarked vehicles. Cheers Thom

Oh grief, I'm not sure I do "geddit". Does that mean you ate "Peters"? Also, who emailed you? Me? Did I? I'm sure life never used to be this confusing... Anyone want to swing this thread back around to Michelin again? Bloated, I read your comment; from my own experiences over the last year I would not put Hakkasan anywhere near the level of food and service encountered at the similarly Michelin starred Hibiscus, Merchant House, Pied De Terre, Nobu Or Juniper. Cheers Thom

I know I know Peter, it just cheapens my subtle attempts at sarcasm, irony or facetiousness to have to plaster them with smileys. I have in fact eaten in Rimini and Milan. There were no heavily sauced dishes, and I did not even notice whether Veal was on the menu or not. The whole statement was , I admit, a heavy handed piss-take that fell flat on its face. The disappointment of Peter Pumkino (surely a good title for a short story, or some humourous verse?) was to much to bear... On the upside, Peter, you couldn't leave well alone, and have now said "heavily sauced pasta is NOT Real Italian" and "heavily sauced pasta comes from the South" (of Italy) in recent posts. Just when you had me wriggling in the crushing grip of reason you've lost me again. Explain please. Cheers Thom

We've gone from Michelin to Chinese cuisine within a couple of pages; it's almost too tempting to swing this whole thread around to yet another reprise of the 'Real Italian' discussion. Even if I can resist it, I bet Peter can't. By the way, I have been to several "Real Italian" © restaurants in Italy (Rimini and Milan to be precise) that serve heavily sauced food, and one of them didn't even have veal on the menu. Bite, bite, bite... Cheers Thom © Peter Pumkino 2002 (or earlier if it means he thought of it first).

Adam, It could have been, but unfortunately it is to early on a Monday for wit. I actually meant "Is there a book which sheds light on Chinese cuisine and culture?" in the same way that 'Thai Cooking' has opened my eyes to Thai. In retrospect, the wording is a bit wooly. Again I blame Monday morning. Cheers Thom

Ok. Fair points. To clarify: I refer to the 'mains' at Hakkasan as such only because they were single dishes the size of the average Western main course, not because I would normally expect them to form a 'main' within a 'meal' as would be the case in the West. Usually, I would only eat dim sum for lunch, but as I mentioned we were in an investigative frame of mind and fancied giving the menu more of a work out. I know this is continuing the veer off topic, but the Chinese food history is interesting. Is it too much to hope that there is a 'Thai Cooking' style book that someone could point me to? Cheers Thom Edit: Peter, you just couldn't let it lie...

John, Nope, I went for lunch. I was just very greedy (for professional research reasons of course). We had a selection of dim sum (all around £3-£4), but also had three 'main 'meals (all around £8-£12) which we ordered with rice and noodles. I know Chinese food doesn't traditionally fit into the 'three course' structure, but they were in effect main dishes. To be honest I haD no problem with the dim sum, they were good, but as I said before I have had lots of good dim sum, it seems to be the high point in many Chinese meals. My problem was the dull unimaginative mains, which didn't rise much above the mediocre, whilst the price, surroundings and recent star would have led you to believe they should. Adam. Good answer. Thats the sort of thing I was imagining. I have eaten when in Taiwan, but I was young and feckless and didn't seek out good food as I should have done (in fact I may even have chickened out and had a lonely McDonalds on one occasion). I would love to go back for a second try (the local Taiwanese food rather than the McDonalds). Cheers Thom

Cabrales, I think it would be a pity if Michelin did openly admit that they favoured French cuisine, and basically said 'thats the deal, if you don't like it go elsewhere'. I like to think that they would recognise any French bias as a potential problem, and are trying to evolve to ensure Michelin does not become a less potent brand amongst restaurateurs over the next 20 years. Hakkasan has only been open around a year, but I think Tony was saying it was included as a belated nod to the Chinese (or possibly Asian) restaurant scene generally, rather than to Hakkasan specifically. Your point about 'which Chinese restaurants' would have merited a star is a fair one. Chinese restaurants don't really achieve (or even strive for) the standards of service and atmosphere which Michelin (rightly or wrongly) believes are needed to achieve a star rating. But what about expanding that question out, maybe to other Asian restaurants? Japanese would be an obvious one, or maybe closer to home with Spanish or Italian. I think the point Tony was making remains - restaurants which theoretically reach Michelins standards for cuisine, atmosphere, service etc have not been awarded stars, most probably (whether willfully or not) because they do not offer French cuisine; some of their recent awards smack of rash and misguided overcompensating. Cheers Thom