thom

Mrs Woman, good Yang Sing comment. Yvonne, The Restaurant Bar and Grill is owned by the sister company of The Restaurant Game (publishers of Restaurant Magazine) for whom I am Marketing Director. The same Applies to Piccolino and the Knutsford Wine Bar (both in Knutsford), and The Alderley Bar and Grill (Alderley Edge, strangley enough). Andy. I haven't been to Juniper for over two years. I found it similar to - but fussier and less technically adept - than a typical Shaun Hill menu, whom I believe Paul Kitching worked with. The business side of the restaurant has recentally changed, and dining space has increased. The menu has changed, and a move in a 'Heston-thal' direction is believable. I'm intrigued by the Weetabix thing, and feel compelled to give it another go. Wilfrid. Well done for finding the Phil, a fantastic pub, with the most ornate toilets in Britain (quite a claim I know). Hope St is decent, but if in Liverpool again (it could happen, even for a self confessed snobby Londoner), try Bechers Brook (also on Hope St), No 7 cafe (just around the corner) or ZIBA (inbetween Bold St and Chinatown).

Steve, I think you've missed the point about whether 'assessing the number of media types' missed the point. My question was not a method of ascertaining the worth or relevence of egullet as a forum for the restaurant industry (industry people and diners). It mas merely a question from me - as a restaurant AND media person - to find out how many of my colleagues and peers had discovered the myriad delights of egullet. Incidentally, I also interested as to how many of egullets posters are passionate consumers, and how many work in the restaurant industry. Again this is not to judge quality, I'm just curious. Any ideas Andy?

Yes. You must excuse the mention of Livebait. The reviews were orginally written for someone who wanted chains included and for the sake of getting this thread going I thought I would throw them into the mix regardless. My post merely scratches the surface of Manchesters culinary landscape, with the aforementioned Yang Sing, The Market Restaurant and Juniper all still to be found by intrepid diners.

I'm glad the point has been made about 'restaurants outside London'. Although there are high points throughout the country, it is a fact that the vast majority of truely top class restaurants are in London. That said, there are a plethora of fantastic and enjoyable eating experiences to be had throughout the UK, but the lack of media coverage means the majority are often missed by travellers and tourists, reinforcing the 'few good restaurants in the provinces' shctick. As a proud Mancunian, and a voracious diner, I thought I would kick of the whole 'good eating experiences outside London' thing by making a few recomendations (and a few warnings) for my home town. The levels of service or quality of tableware may not always match Ramseys latest, but it should guantee some very enjoyable meals. Which is what its all about really. Lets see who agrees or disagrees with these: Stephen Saunders at The Lowry Has a 'tidal' system of atmosphere, depending on the timing of the performances at the surrounding theatres. Busy before, dead during. good though inconsistent food - with well executed fish deserving a mention - and sharp service. River view will shortly include Libeskind's Imperial War Museum, though some areas of the dining space feel isolated Restaurant Bar and Grill (Yes I could have a vested interest, but trust me on this...) 'Raised the bar' in Manchester dining standards. An excellent space, with a genuinely impressive glazed 'conservatory'. Service is at a standard seldom found at such reasonably priced locations. Grill dishes are notable, as are the Asian tinged starters. Busy most evenings and more so at lunchtime, the only time when service levels slip Croma Pizza Express Mark II. Crisp clean interior, with art deco windows, as well as white walls and ceiling fans that hint at warmer climes. Pizzas are competent - good bases and creative toppings - and good value, with helpful service. Some incongruous details - such as 'hotel style' foil wrapped butter portions - spoil the overall effect. Palmiro A pioneering and refreshing venue. Stuck in the middle of Whalley Range, 5 mins from the bright lights of bohemian Chorlton, this restaurant was a risk. The quality and authenticity of the food - both cooking and ingredients, chattery intimate atmosphere and pleasing if bare styling ensure it is still with us. Good. Samsi Yakitori The first city centre Japanese to ignore the crowd pleasing teppanyaki antics. A cavernous and seldom buzzing atmosphere houses excellent chefs, outstanding food as well as (understandably) attentive service. Extensive sushi, sashimi and grill menus and some of the best Japanese cooking outside the capital. A recent visit to Nobu NY only reinforced its comparative quality. Love Saves the Day An absolute stormer. Part cafe, part deli, part coffee shop, this bustling operation bears comparison with the NY delis it is so obviously in awe of. The excellent though 'gappy' selection of deli products drives the menu, competent Mediterranean cuisine along with the cities best coffee. A quirky though intelligent list of wines and beers tops of an immensely pleasing experience. Livebait Seafood comes to Manchester at last, all wrapped up in a respected brand name (bar the recently deceased Chelsea flagship). The space is enticing, though the building itself has a history of failed food and drink ventures. Style and menu as per London, though as always the North suffers with problems of consistency. Initial Mancunian griping about the price has led to noticeably bigger portions, so you now feel either sick or wasteful, as well as poor. Earth Morality, religion and food. Earth forms part of the accompanying Buddhist Centre, and sits in the cosmopolitan 'Northern Quarter'. Food is organic, seasonal, vegetarian, cruelty free and fairly traded. The end result is wholesome and refreshing fare, that leaves you feeling well fed, and as if you've done some good in the world. The airy space is peaceful, and a satisfying contrast to the hubbub outside. Bridgewater Stalls A Similar clientele to Stephen Saunders crowd this unsung hero. Inventive modern British menu (with a Northern slant), reasonable prices, pleasing views, waterside location, and all the benefits of hearing great (albeit muffled) orchestral music for free. Bound to become more frantic with the opening of the nearby conference centre and various hotels, get in while you can. Piccolino (Again, I could have a vested interest, but its true...) On the main strip in Knutsford, and sister to Manchester's 'Restaurant', the wonderful Piccolino couldn't seem less related if it tried. A modern rustic feel - with scrubbed tables, and soothing blues and terracotta's, is enhanced by a fantastic modern Mediterranean menu. Service is relaxed and efficient, fish, meat, pasta and pizza are all excellent, and the panna cotta has to be tasted to be believed. (Edited by thom at 5:04 pm on Jan. 11, 2002) (Edited by thom at 5:05 pm on Jan. 11, 2002) (Edited by thom at 5:07 pm on Jan. 11, 2002) (Edited by thom at 5:12 pm on Jan. 11, 2002)

With my (thermal) vested interest in Restaurant magazine, I feel I must clairify the nature of its alleged slur aganist Mr Bourdain (Thank you Andy). Far from saying he is 'an intellectual Jamie Oliver', we merely opined that he was 'fast turning into' a kind of 'intellectual Jamie Oliver'. This is (whilst still a harrowing vision) entirely avoidable. There is still time Anthony, turn back from the dark side (or if you prefer, 'stay away from the light').

Simon, I can only assume that you prefer your 'peace, love and understanding' dry. Watch for chafing. This strand is really going down hill...

A prime example of the gossip and scurrilous rumours I was previously referring too. Andy and I are just 'good friends', and will only look to have a family when the time is right. Maybe we'll start off by just having a pet; a cat possibly, or maybe a hard feather bantam. On a much more important note, I will NEVER EVER EVER give free copies of the magazine away. In fact, I would offer my eternal soul before doling out gratis copies of our fine publication. Reach for your £1.70's cheapskates... (Edited by thom at 11:59 am on Jan. 8, 2002)

Sorry to reply to my own reply (slippery slope to insanity I know...) but I have another question: Exactly how many journalists (national press, consumer, trade) are knocking around on egullet? As well as being addictive and tremendous fun in its own right its an invaluable source of opinion, rumour and gossip, the food and drink (no pun) of publications worldwide. I am suprised at how few media chaps I recognise (though of course some may be hiding behind whacky pseudonyms). Part of me wants to spread the word to my colleagues. The other (more dominant) half wants to keep egullet all for me, selfish as I am. So...any journos? And am I a selfish bad person?

In my defense The Idi Amin/Skoda examples were extremes to illustrate a point, rather than metaphors for Caterer... The 'what we leave out point' is a good one. With our core focus on restaurants alone I feel we should be able to include more of the the stuff restaurateurs and diners actually want to read about. I rest assured that I will hear about it here first if we do not. (Edited by thom at 10:54 am on Jan. 8, 2002)

I guess I set myself up for that one... We do start with news and end with jobs, but that is a trade magazine thing. Its like comparing a ferrari to a skoda because they both have wheels and a bonnet, or Mother Therasa with Idi Amin because they both have arms and legs. The USP for Restaurant in this industry is meant to be its tone, style and 'feel' for the contemporary restaurant industry. Also, its focus, as we are a pure 'restaurant' magazine, whereas Caterer has to satisfy readers in everything from chain hotels to fine dining to public sector catering. As I say, all feedback is good feedback. So if we're doing anything right or wrong then do say. Without wanting to seem gushing it is a pleasure to be able to call upon a sounding board as educated and passionate as egullet. Thats enough of that...

I never thought that anyone on egullet would hold back with their opinions... The reference to Caterer's 'ghost-like presence' is intriguing. Does Restaurant really have aspects of the Grandaddy of all industry magazine? I don't know, I think my perception may have become clouded. So come on people, tell it like it is. Which bits of Restaurant are like Caterer and which are not? In both cases is that a good or a bad thing? What is missing from Restaurant magazine? Answers on a postcard etc etc.

Anyone seen the latest issue of Restaurant magazine yet? I am curious for feedback, as I fear the latest issue may be as a red rag to a bull, bearing in mind the energetically debated tangent taken by the last 'Restaurant magazine' strand. Look out for it, whether you're a 'Heston-hater' or a 'Blumenthal buddy'.

Ok to answer a few questions that have arisen: Restaurant magazines survival: Fear not for Restaurant magazine. The skill of the team behind it (I exclude myself for modestys sake) and the funding in place (its parent company is The Restaurant Game, set up by the founders of Est Est Est) means this will be no short term project. Writing and Design: Like Heston (judging from the tangent of the last magazine thread) a good magazine often polarises opinion. If we can keep most of you happy most of the time then we shall consider it a job well done. Frequency: Restaurant is fortnightly. This allows it to carry better news and recruitment adverts, which monthlys cannot. This is why Caterer (as a weekly) has never had significant competition before. Audience: Remember, this is mean to be a TRADE title. which is also accessable enough for a gourmet, foodie, consumer audience. As a trade title, we don't focus so much on restaurant reviews. Even trade magazines that do 'review' restaurants such as Caterer or Theme rarely actually pass judgement on the quality of the experience. I must just add that we have had difficulty getting the two points above across, which is why the magazine now has a front cover flap with 'NEW INDUSTRY FORTNIGHTLY' on it in big letters... Eatsoup: An interesting reference, as out editor (David Lancaster) founded said magazine. He claims its demise was due to mis-marketing by its publisher IPC. I couldn't possibly comment, but Restaurant is different, and will avoid such pit falls. I am delighted that Restaurant has created so such interest here. If I talk about it too much, then tell me. Otherwise I am more than happy to field any questions or constructive (####, even destructive) criticisms that you may have. (Edited by thom at 2:32 pm on Dec. 19, 2001)