thom

Matthew, Youre right, I was probably oversimplifying my criticism of Hakkasan. (Possible new thread warning) I had spent the taxi ride there discussing the current state of Chinese restaurants, and why so many of them seem to have identikit gloop. It was interesting to make parallels with other modern cuisines, where technique and quality of ingredients are much more central to the cooking (whether it is high style, or 'peasant' style) - French, Italian and Japanese all spring to mind. Could someone deconstruct Chinese cuisine, and reinvent it with fresher more subtle flavours and exciting combinations of ingredients? A flippant analogy, but I'm thinking of the swinging change from hearty, heavily sauced Italian food in 70's trattorias, to River Cafe, Locanda Locatelli (please don't mention the 'real Italian' thread) et al. See also flock wallpapered 80's curry houses against Tamarind, Zaika etc. Considering the depth of culture in China, and the artistic indulgences of it's historical ruling classes why did it's cuisine not reach the levels of refinement and luxury seen in other societies? Maybe it has, but has it never been exported? People who have eaten a lot more Chinese food in China than me tell me that is not the case. Anyway, it was with this bubbling brew of thoughts in mind that we entered Hakkasan. Nice place, very hip, very now. Great menu... Surely if anywhere is going to answer the questions above it would be here? The dim sum were actually very good (for me personally I have always felt dim sum are the most delicious and inventive element in any good Chinese restaurant), but they still lagged behind the Yang Sing - I'm spoilt. The main courses sounded excellent, but this is where Chinese restaurants normally fall down. It's all too rare to find a main course in a Chinese restaurant that is inventive, or makes you want to rave about it. One in particular - "Organic Pork with Sweet and Sour and Pomegranate" - did excite us though , as we had just discussed Sweet and Sour Pork as one of those horribly abused Chinese dishes which - if done properly - can be wonderful. Anyway, the pork (plus other very intriguing sounding mains - fried soft shell crab, scallop and prawn cakes) arrived and... They were fine. But on the plate, and in the mouth, they were little different to any other decent Chinese meal I had had. To pick on the pork in particular, the quality of meat was not discernably different to uhmm... normal pork, and the sauce tasted not disimilar to ohhh... a normal sweet and sour sauce. The sliced peppers added little, and the pomegranate was muted. It even had chunks of (ironic?) pineapple. The whole dish, showed no sign of having striven for perfection. The prep, ingredients, presentation and taste were fine. They just didn't say "Cutting edge Chinese cuisine worthy of a Michelin star". I felt really let down... Maybe there is no 'new' Chinese (or even 'old' Chinese) above and beyond what we normally encounter. Maybe it's too late and Thai has filled the gap that 'Modern Chinese' could have mutated into. David Thompson is the sort of guy you would love to let loose on Chinese food, maybe he could have given it the kick up the arse it needs. Cheers Thom

Michelin's webiste sheds a little light on this matter: http://news.webmichelin.com/nofrm_affich.j...e=1&news_id=394 Nice memorable web address, I know. Apparently the guide is published on the 17th of Jan (tomorrow), and each establishment listed now gets a short description. There are 16 new one star awards, and Pied a Terre (where I had a stupendous meal earlier this year) has claimed it's second star. Bizarrely, Hakkasan has been given it's first star. I find this inexpliable, as having eaten there yesterday, I was struck by how the exciting sounding menu actually led to food barely above the level of any other 'decent' Chinese, and certainly well behind Manchester Yang Sing. The actual quality of preperation, ingredients and service all fell short of what I would expected from a one star. It reinforces my opinion that Michelin feel slightly railroaded into modernising and recognising non traditional French style restaurants, but their lack of appreciation or familiarity leads to tokenism, doling out stars on the basis of buzz/press coverage. It could be said their recent awards to Japanese and Indian restaurants were equally contencious and did not always represent the best in class. Incidently, in Arena (normally a magazine there is little reason to read) their is an interesting interview with four top chefs (Including Ramsey) on their views on Michelin. There is also a well justified argument from Peter Harden (of Harden's restaurant guide) as to why it simply isn't relevent. I await the full list with a gnawing feeling I may be disapointed, but based on personal experience I would like to see Juniper and Hibiscus get a second star. Cheers Thom

Bapi, Thanks for that, it looks like an incredible line up. If you had to pick a night with one of the listed chefs (not in the biblical sense) who would your choice be? Heston (because I have not yet made it to Bray yet) or Philip Howard would probably get my nod. I had been planning a weekend away over the next month or so. My regular pilgrimage to Ludlow had been favourite, but Langho may have now pushed to the front of the queue. Then again, with my post-Christmas regime of financial austerity, I should really be eating out less and cooking more. Damn my extravagent spending, looks like I'm going to have to sell another kidney... Cheers Thom

Actually, no one has even managed that yet. I think the phrase goes 'You can take the boy out of the North, but he'll bring a bag of pork scratchings with him.' I like the ones with hair on that look like eyelids. Ah, pub food... Cheers Thom

Sunday night, wedged in a corner of the Marble Arch at the top of my street. Having worked through a pint each of N4, Ginger Marble and Old Lag (all organic, and brewed in the onsite micro-brewery), I finish with a bottle of Timmermans peach lambic (one of the campest drinks ever, complete with pink foil). Sustenance came in the form of Seabrooks pleasantly sickly-sweet crinkle-cut prawn cocktail crisps (the only true pub crisp), and a Tunnocks caramel and marshmallow. The marshmallow is sticky and wet, not like the dusty nodules you get in bags from Woolies, and the wrapper of the Tunnocks caramel makes the aqstounding claim that over 4,000,000 are eaten every week. Where? By who? The fire is roaring, and the clientele is a pleasing mix of posties and gas workers who have just finished their shifts, slightly earnest beer-bores reading dog eared copies of the local Camra newsletter, Sophie and me. Eating and Drinking doesn't get much better than this. I'm only half joking... Cheers Thom

It may be a rare thing in the hard edged and cynical big smoke, but you can still find similar levels of trust (naivety?) out in the styx. At my last meal at Mr Underhills in Ludlow (excellent rare beef, foolishly potent wine, and the smelliest cheese I have encountered upon a restaurant board - even the server seemed intimidated by it), I did the old 'forgetting my wallet thing'. Rather than spending a night at the sink or even receiving a swift beating followed by a one way trip over the weir, she simply asked if I was staying locally. I said I was (Number 28 actually -good breakfasts), and she just said oh pop in tomorrow and sort out the money then. Very sweet. Cheers Thom

Simon, Yep it is a small group of high quality individual hotels (hmmm... interesting concept) called Firmdale Hotels. Website is http://www.charlottestreethotel.com/. The FOH staff at the hotel are excellent. Very efficient, very polite, very pleasant - a seemingly simple but all to rare combination. The front bar is great, but I find it does get a little too busy at times. Better in summer when it spills out onto the street. As well as being spitting distance from Passione whilst at the Charlotte St, you are also a stones throw (unless you throw like a girlie) from Pied a Terre. As previously discussed on a seperate thread I have had an outstanding meal there, but others seem to have had some bad experiences with the service. Don't worry Simon. I'm sure you have some worryingly patchy memories of drink and debauchery at the Charlotte Street Hotel, but I can categorically state that you never ended up in a bath with me watching Jamies Kitchen. Hope that puts your mind at ease. Cheers Thom

Hotel is very good indeed. The food sounds decent on the menu but was pricey (that's hotels for you), and competent if not inspiring. Service can be a little strained, as the whole place tends to get hammered by 8:30. The best thing to do is to stay at the hotel itself, and then you can leave the braying proles in the front bar, and retire to the comfort of a wing backed chair and a roaring fire in the residents bar at the rear. As well as being pretty well stocked and a pleasing space, it operates as an 'honesty bar' - Black Russians and Cognac a go-go, and then shakily write 'one small sherry' next to your room number. Not that I'm advocating etc etc... The other good reason to stay at the Charolotte St is that you get little flat screen plasa TV's in the bathroom. This means you can watch Popstars, Fame Academy, Celebrity Big Brother or other fine reality TV programming of your choice whilst enjoying a good soak. Cheers Thom

Yes ditto. I went there the last time I stayed at The Charlotte St (very, very convinient). Overall we had a great night, and the food (particularly the squid starter, the pumpkin ravioli and the pungently garlicky rabbit casserole with sauteed potatos) was really very good. The service though was patchy and cool to the point of being brusque, creating a slightly uneasy atmosphere. Really did like the food though. Cheers Thom

Oh dear...

I have Steve, I have. More importantly, I've regularly eaten in the UK since birth so I understand the situation in my stomach as well as in my head. The point you reiterate is exactly the point I was making: That the UK is a tough business environment for the restaurant industry, and this is partly the reason that so many restaurants over here fail. They are tough to finance, swamped in paperwork, and short of staff. Also, as Simon eloquently pointed out, because good food is a relatively new and unusual thing for us Brits our media still tends to treat food as fashion and build up and knock down restaurants rather than just letting them get on with cooking. That said, I think the quality of our cooking and native produce is infinitely better than anything the French have, that Jamie Oliver is the saviour of Italian cooking (which is a very relevent cuisine) and that AA Gill and Michael Winner should have jointly topped the 'Greatest Britons' list. Cheers Thom

Steve, I think there are certain specific difficulties in the UK regarding property prices, red tape and legislation; plus the problem of finding and keeping decent staff which all have an effect on the restaurant scene here. I guess it is partly because we have developed as a nation and as a business environment without the restaurant industry being as pervasive, powerful and respected as in other countiries. I'm not saying that restaurants overseas don't have problems, but I think that all restaurants in the UK have the specific issues touched on above, and they drain the spirit and energy ( and profit) of the restaurateurs here whether they are successful in terms of covers and revenue or not, and whether they are provincial or not. Cheers Thom

I agree with Tony, Gary and Simon, I don't think the closures are due to lack of success - Winteringham fields is always booked solid. Neither is it simply that they are not making money - I doubt either Claude Bosi or Shaun Hill are rolling in it from their exertions in Ludlow, yet they show no signs of wavering. I think it is simply burn out. The Schwabs are always in the kitchen, and have been for years. Not for them the relative ease of TV shows, books and promotional tours... I also don't think it is a case of provincial restaurants being tougher to run successfully. To an intelligent restaurateur the perceived lack of customers is offset by the corresponding lack of high startup costs and competition. I would imagine restaurant failure rates in London are higher (and the corresponding debts higher too) than for the UK as a whole. I think the fact is that the provinces attract a certain type of restaurateur - individuals or couples who are immensely talented and driven, and happy to live or die by their cooking alone. In London it's largely groups or consortiums, individuals with backers etc etc who get the prime locations and aim for the high end audiences. For better or worse the provinces provide restaurants like Northcote Manor, Winteringham Fields, Merchant House that you simply don't get in the big smoke. How many Michelin starred London restaurants are self contained, and not supported by a group, outside backers, or a hotel? Because these provincial restaurants require such input from an individual or couple, they often struggle when the founders retire. Equally, not many investors want to take a risk on buying a restaurant driven by one persons vision once that person has left. The next generation of 'restaurant indivudals' would rather carve their own niche without the pressure and constraints of trying to take over a place like Winteringham fields. Possibly Ramsey (love him or loathe him) is the only London chef/restaurateur to match the commitment and quality of the best provincial restauranteurs, whilst still managing to saturate the media with his inimitable charm. Clever also to establish his most promising chefs as seperate brands under his own wing (Marcus Waring, Angela Hartnett) than spreading himself to thin with too many 'Ramsey' restaurants were he will never cook... Cheers Thom

I kind of like your slogan better Andy, but hey, if you don't ask you don't get. Obviously the latter is one of the tenets on which my life is built. Could you lend me a tenner till Monday? Cheers Thom

And the sad thing is, it took ages to come up with... We were uncomfortable with the fact that the all restaurants (well, 5 at the time) within the company were very different (menus, sites, decor etc) so the end result was 'The Individual Restaurant Company'. There's even a tagline, 'Always individual, consistently unique'. Kind of like a less neat version of Marks and Spencers 'Exclusively for everyone'. If you are so inclined you can check out the website at http://www.individualrestaurants.co.uk. The last opening was the Marlow Bar and Grill (In Marlow, funnily enough) and a new restaurant will open in January in the old Fish site in central Manchester. Cheers Thom

Nortcote Manor may still be a bit of a North West thing. It's in Langho (near Blackburn) in the wilds of Lancashire, and the chef/propreitor is the very well respected Nigel Howarth. It's been around for 20 years and is set in an Edwardian County House hotel; the menu and ambience are very much as such a venue would suggest. It's also famed for its wonderful countryside setting and it's focus on local produce, including a Lancashire cheese ice cream. I must admit I haven't eaten there myself, but I did eat in the temporary restaurant they ran at the 'Restaurant and Bar Manchester' exhibition that was here in the rainy city the year before last. The food was actually very good indeed, moreso considering the limitations of working out of a makeshift kitchen. The Ops Director of our Restaurant group (Individual Restaurants) is a ex chef (he's worked in 5 star Kitchens on every continent except Antartica I think...); he speaks very highly of Nigel and I respect his opinion. It's always in the Good Food Guide (a excellent '6' this year), gets a star in Michelin, and a top rated '2 stars' in last years Hardens. It's one of those places that has been on my 'must go to' list for ages, but if I haven't made it the 20 miles or so to Langho I can't blame you Londoners for having missed it. I have entirely missed the other three that Tony mentioned. Cheers Thom

I have to admit I had never even heard of Restaurant One-o-One. I only hope the food is much, much better than their taste in carpets (80's style airport chic); see Andy's useful link to Toptable for all the gory details... Nice to see Northcote Manor on there, and I would imagine the current groundswell of popular opinion may push Juniper and Hibiscus up there for next year. Cheers Thom

Just posted this on 'Food, media and news' by accident. I suppose it is relevent to both but I meant it to be on here. Does one thread need deleting Mr/Ms adminstrator? Anyway, here's the post... All, Harden's restaurant guide have sneaked out a press release to promote there up and coming 2003 UK edition. According to their survey results, the UK's top ten restaurants are: 1. Winteringham Fields, Winteringham, Lincolnshire 2. Gordon Ramsay, Chelsea, London 3. La Terrasse, Sandgate, Kent 4. Monsieur Max, Hampton Hill, London 5. Le Manoir aux Quat’Saisons, Great Milton, Oxfordshire 6. Restaurant One-O-One, Knightsbridge, London 7. Merchant House, Ludlow, Shropshire 8= Michael’s Nook, Grasmere, Cumbria 8= Old Chesil Rectory, Winchester, Hampshire 10. Northcote Manor, Langho, Lancashire The full article is on http://www.caterer.com/news/articledetail....articleID=45795 (much as it pains me to namecheck Caterer). Interestingly, it seems two of the restaurants that made the list have closed and one has been put up for sale. Anyway, vitriolic disagreements on a postcard to the usual address please... Much as I hate to fly in the face of popular egullet opinion (yeah...) I find Harden's restaurant guides very useful (as a quick reference guide whilst trying to pin down the nearest decent lunch), and relatively accurate. Cheers Thom

Everyone should have a hobby, and mine is playing devil's advocate... Below is a summary of the questions and some mildly flippant responses. I know it's a red rag to all the Zagat haters on here (I may even throw in the words 'elitist', or just plain 'snobby'), but it keeps me off the streets... Q1.How does Zagat know how old or how trustworthy reports are? A1. It doesn't really, but you would hope that out of tens of thousands of responses any anomolous results would be in the vast minority, and would be evened out. For them to have any impact at all is not ideal, but in terms of a pocket sized quick reference guide this is not the end of the world. You can also argue about whether an individuals ability to judge restaurants is up to scratch or not, but this is a subjective business. Even the rarified pallettes on egullet struggle to reach agreement on a restaurants qualities. Q2. Why do restaurants that purchase expensive, customised copies of Zagat not get bad reviews? A2. Turn it on it's head. The guides provide marketing for the restaurants. If a restaurant gets a positive review then in makes sense to purchase some extra copies to put into the hands of potential or current customers. Flagging up a glowing review which is respected and independent can only help a restaurant's cause. I can't imagine that many restaurants who get a slating feel compelled to call and order reprints. 3. How, of nearly 2,000 restaurants in the 2002 edition, almost none received a rating of “poor to fair” (0-9 points)? A variety of reasons. Most guides (and indeed most reviewers) tend to naturally err towards including more restaurants with positive reviews than negative - kind of 'opt in' rather than 'opt out' eating. Also, due to the nature of such a quality scale the extremes tend to be rare, and varied opinions will reduce any peaks or troughs still further. Secondly, it's very easy to say a restaurant was appalling because your asparagus was woody, your soup tepid or your brain masala overcooked. It's even easy to confuse 'appalling' as a relative term with 'disappointing' subject to perception or expectation. In reality though, a straight up 0-9 would have to be genuinely, gut wrenchingly grim, and for informed restaurant guide readers (which you would expect most of the respondents to be) to encounter such a meal in sufficient numbers to create an overall average of 0-9 would probably be almost as rare a situation as a place getting top marks. In fact, would a restaurant that bad even stay around long enough to generate a number of reports? Feel free to post any examples from your own experiences... Q4. How can Peter Luger (excellent though very limited) be ranked at the same level as Four Seasons, Lespinasse, and Aureole? Why has Daniel cut opening hours when 'Zagat' proclaims it 'popular'? A4. That's market research for you (which is effectively what Zagat is), sometimes it throws up bizarre and inexplicable results. All Zagat does is neutrally report the statistical findings of its surveys. Statistics can be tricky things, and should not be taken as absolute truths - noone really has 2.3 children though it is the UK average. As long as you understand the process that produce the results it is possible to view them through a filter of common sense. In the specific case of Daniel, many factors other than just perceived number of diners at a particularly time can affect a restaurants operation. Q5. If Tim and Nina Zagat do not influence the final figures then why the panic when they turn up at restaurants? A5. I think it is a bit Pavlovian, rather than anything more sinister. The name 'Zagat', with its perceived power to dispassionately crush an aspiring restaurateurs dreams in an instant, does actually strike fear into the heart of your average chef, particularly those whose restaurant operates within traditional Zagat strongholds (NY, Paris, London etc). I genuinely think that the Zagats do not bend survey results to their own ends in any way. Harden's (a UK equivalent to Zagat, which I find pretty trustworthy and extremely useful) has a different approach and will clearly flag up a handful of reports each edition based on 'editors findings' to cover high profile restaurants that may have missed out on survey responses due to timing etc. Ok, let the Zagat baiting bunfight begin...

Intriguing. I suppose I must have either struck lucky (another fluke) and caught them on a good day, or my gastronomic tastes are wildly out of whack with the majority of right thinking people. Or... Simon, Andy et al have shrivelled, dried out taste buds and wouldn't know good food if it bi....no, no, no, what was I thinking. Sorry, moment of insanity. I'd certainly give it another go, a couple of the dishes were outstanding, and live long in the memory. Cheers Thom

Went to Pied a Terre a few weeks ago with Chandos, our Editor at Large, and the chef, Shane Osborn, was kind enough to knock up a mini-tasting menu with half a glass on wine for each course (it was a quick lunch as meetings were calling. I do work you know). Anyway, I quite liked the style of the room, possibly a little gloomy (especially for a lunchtime) but intimate, stylish, and oozing understated quality. The food I thought was really very, very good indeed. I'm not so self absorbed as to presume the kitchen raised it's game just because we were in town, so I can only assume dishes such as the wonderfully flavoursome saltcod soup, spot on rack of lamb and treacly stout ice cream are pretty much the norm. I never got around to posting about the orginal meal, but I have noticed PaT rarely comes up on here during discussions about historic or impending great meals. Has it been around so long people have got blase about it, or is there a more sisnister reason? I was interested to see that the new GFG gave it an 8, which makes it one of the top twelve highest rated restaurants in the country, on a par with Petrus, Fat Duck etc. I know the varied and sometimes vitriolic opinions that people on here have of guidebooks, but don't get sidelined; the question is 'Is Pied a Terre as good as it seemed on the basis my one brief lunch?' Cheers Thom

Jackie, Waited ages to makes a post and then two come along at once! Nice to meet another fellow Manc (adopted) foodie. Wise words on the tips, I concur with most of your recommendations. That said, I think the Restaurant Bar and Grill is worth checking out for the food alone, though I admit the bar and people watching are equally good reasons to drop in. Petit Blanc and Heathcoates are probably too of the worst culprits for inconsistency, a pity as on their day they can be great. Sams Chop House is good, but although it has been a Manchester institution for a century, it did close before being reopened by the team behind Mr Thomas's Chop House. personally I prefer Mr T's patina of age and character (ie grime) as Sams has had an interior refit, albeit a sympathetic one. Couple of new things happening up here: Simple, a very night unpretentious bar-restaurant in the Northern Quarter, has recently taken the old Murillos site (Chapel Walks) and plans to open in the next couple of weeks. They should provide a cosy contrast to the city centre trend in stark bars, and decent food too. The recently opened Chine Rouge, is (as I understand it) a fusion of French and Chinese cuisine, though the dishes I have seen mentioned seemed Vietnamese. It's based in an old Chinatown restaurant (Jade Gardens possibly?), though the French influence comes from one of the famous Caroll brothers (Bernard?), who were responsible for the defunct Brasserie St Pierre and Reform and the ongoing Lounge Ten. Their restaurants are seldom less than excellent, and always unusual, so it could be worth a go. Finally, the owners of Restaurant Bar and Grill, Individual Restaurants (see their shiny new website at www.individualrestaurants.co.uk), are also due to open a new venture on the old Fish site (opposite Croma). It should be open in January, and will be based on Piccolino, their successful modern-rustic Med restaurant in Knutsford, Cheshire. Expect a comfortable relaxed feel, and modern italian dishes with a nod towards River Cafe. Two other old favourites I forgot to mention: Grinch is the original quirky trendy (as opposed to minimalist trendy) Manchester cafe bar. The drinks are good, it has a great ambience with live music at the weekend, and the pizzas, pasta and salads are always tasty and filling. Abergeldie is a Scottish named English style greasy spoon run by a Greek family on Shude Hill. The food is so-so cafe standards, with a couple of Greek dishes thrown in, but the interior is fantastic. It has the authentic formica tables and snug boothes that were ripped out of most cafes in the eighties, and the heath robinson style steel contraption that makes the tea has to be seen to be believed - all rivets, burnished brass and hissing steam. Happy Mancunian eating people. Cheers Thom

Bapi, Well, seeing as you asked... The Millenium Quarter is a marketing buzzword, in much the same way that the 'Northern Quarter' seemed more palatable to developers than Smithfield or Piccadilly. Millenium Quarter refers to the North Eastern area of the City centre, which was heavily affected by the IRA bomb. At the time it consisted of a fairly messy open area with a rubbish strewn fountain which was surrounded by a 60's M&S, the arse end of the Arndale centre, the near derelict and bomb damaged Victorian Corn exchange (home to anyone who bought strange second hand records, read tarot cards or smelt of patchouli oil - Andy?), the hideous 60's Shambles shopping centre (never a truer word said), a few open air carparks, Cheethams Music College, Victoria station, the old Mirror newspaper offices, Manchester Cathedral and the huge CIS office complex (Co-op Insurance Society). Basically, it was empty at night, quiet during the day, and very run down. Eating or drinking meant a couple of greasy spoons or an M&S sandwich. After the bomb, the area was identified as ripe for reivitalising by taking the opportunity to open up the orginal street plans which had been cut in half by 60's developments. Obviously, being the late 90's, eating, drinking, shopping and all round entertainment were seen as key to the sites new identity. So, welcome to 2002, progress report as follows. If you haven't been to Manchester for a couple of years the change is pretty impressive: M&S built a fairly impressive building on the old site to create their largest store in the world. Immediately after their stock took a down turn and they panicked and flogged the back half of the building (facing into the millenium quarter). Luckily they flogged it to Selfridges, who were looking to add to their out of town shop in the Trafford Centre. So, whether you need a whole shark, a bottle of Petrus, or some Prada undies this is the place for you. The food hall is tremendous, with much of the food available to eat at the counter. They also have a basic third floor cafe and a Yo Sushi. Harvey Nichols are due to open opposite early next year, so that will add even more to the 'department store eating' genre. The old corn exchange was reopened as a designer shopping centre (rebranded the Triangle), and houses Calvin Klein, Space NK et al. More importantly it has food and drink. Jigsaw (as in the shop) have a good cafe (if you want things with goats cheese or sun blushed tomatos) and a nice view. There is also a fine deli selling French patisserie, wines and champagne called 'Delice de Champagne', a Cafe Nero, Pizza Express and a patchy Zinc. The Cathedral and environs have been redeveloped and there is now a decent-ish little visitor centre with a cafe. The food is a bit 'Mrs Miggins cake shop', but its nice enough. The 16th Century pubs I refered to in the previous post were removed from the Shambles and dropped next door. They (Old Wellington and Sinclairs Oyster Bar) are both pleasant places to while away an afternoon, and serve decent pub stodge. The Old Daily Mirror Offices are now called the 'Printworks', which is an 'all day - late night' entertainment complex. Basically, it's a mini-Hades for food and drink with loud music, a Filmworks and a Holmes Place gym. Waggamama and Nandos are passable, but after that you have Hard Rock (cafe or casino), Tiger-Tiger, Riki Tiki Tavi, Lloyds Bar, Old Orleans, Henry J Beans. Help me please... The Urbis has sprung up out of the derelict car park behond the catherdral, and is sited in a pretty fantastic little park. It's kind of like the Tele-tubbies garden, but with nicer benches and a water feature. Urbis as mentioned is a very impressive building (I think Ian Simpson was the architect), and has a cafe on the ground floor overlooking the park which has slow service but fantastic rare beef sandwiches. Up top is Le Mont, desciptions as per the previous post. I have had two excellent meals there, the service is the best I have had in Manchester, and they refuse to do sittings so my party had a very leisurely (maybe a little too much so between starter and main) 3 1/2 hour meal with a couple of bottles of Brouilly. Book now if you want to go, and avoid the weekends, as they are booked up to three weeks in advance. The idea of the Urbis is for it to be a 'Museum looking at city living'. Right... The best way to describe it is that it feels as if it was designed by commitee, like the Millenium Dome. Lots of buzzwords, and stuff which is physically interactive ('push this button!') without being mentally stimulating. It may bed in, but it left me cold; a pity as there are some great stories to be told. £5 in too, ouch. The new Imperial War Museum suffers the same fate (to a lesser degree), and is another great building (Daniel Libeskind). If you really want to blow your cultural socks off then try the recently reopened City Art Gallery with its world beating pre-Raphaelites (and excellent cafe). Anyway, back to the Milenium Quarter: The whole area is pretty busy now, and although the printworks can attract a few beermonsters they tend to be of a higher calibre than those you would find snuffling around Piccadilly Gardens or Peter St. See, I got all over-excited and overran again. Damn. Sorry. Cheers Thom

Vanessa, The torturous West Coast line is probably the sole reason Manchester isn't a heaving world-class supercity a la London, New York, Paris, Tokyo. Or maybe it's the drizzle... Tony, You remember Manchester, it's far, far in the cold and distant North. I think Father Christmas lives here. Regarding Manchester food, I hate to be a passionate 'local person' here, but the city has always had a thriving restaurant scene, and has had more entries in the Good Food Guide, Hardens etc. (if you rate such guides) than any other place outside London for as long as I can remember. Manchester does't have the long established mid range restaurants of other cities, but our ethnic eateries are second to none, and the middle-upper end has started to blossom over the last ten years. Still so much to tell any wet behind the ears Manchester converts out there; the crushed velvet and cramped finery of Lounge 10; the delights of That Cafe, the epicurian oasis in Levenshulme, the strange smells of Titanic, the Kosher deli set up by a Titanic survivor no less; the quite stupendous fish and produce stalls at Bolton, Bury and even the Arndale markets; the teeming gastropubs of Didsbury such as the Metropolian and the Woodstock, the list just goes on... Have you had enough yet?! Have you?!! Cheers Thom

Ohhh.... Now you've got me started. Here's a rundown on some of the places I like to take visitors to in gods own country (and some that people always ask about). It's a bit quickfire, so let me know if any interest you, and I'll elaborate: Regarding your place to stay: Yep, Malmaison is fine, though not as cheap as it should be, and the brasserie is only 'ok'. It has had the 'boutique/small chain' hotel market to itself in Manchester for some time, but Hotel Rossetti has recently opened opposite (run by the award willing Alias Hotels, who also do the Hotels Barcelona, Kadinsky etc etc). The 5 star Lowry is very sleek, and sometimes cheaper than you think on Lastminute.com or at weekends. CHEAP EATS: Do not on any account miss out of the back-street curry houses around Piccadilly. They are only open during the day, but can feed you well for £3-£5 (The famous 'This and That' cafe can even do three curries and rice for around £2:50). My own favourites are the Mahabra for nans, and the Kebabish for the quality of the curries (I particularly recommend the chops on the Monday). Others include the Yagdar, Al Failsal, Balti Basement etc etc. Also, you must pop into 'Love Saves The Day', a NY style deli and coffee bar on Tib street in the creative hub of the Northern Quarter (Manchester's slightly grottier version of Soho). It serves decent sandwiches, bagels and hot food, made simply but with quality ingredients. If you're in the Northern Quarter, you could also try the spiritual surroundings of the 'Earth Cafe' in the Buddist Centre. It's vegetarian, organic, and probably helps old ladies across the road, but the food is cheap, wholesome and not bad at all. Moving into the 'cheapish' bracket, rather than 'absolute steal', you could try Rafas El Ricon (just off Deansgate), and Dimitris (Campfield Market, Deansgate). As the names may suggest, Rafas does a fair selection of relatively authentic tapas (though with patchy service), and Dimitris does extremly generous portions of Greek stodge. Chinatown is worth exploring, and has some outstanding restaurants. At the budget end the 'Woo Sang' is always worth a go, and 'Ho's Chinese Bakery' has to be sampled for the honey buns if nothing else. Rusholme is Manchester's Brick Lane (Is it patronising to keep translating things into London equivalents?), and is about a five minute taxi journey South of the city centre through the University campus. It houses about fifty Asian restaurants, sweet cafes, shops and takeaways, and is known locally as 'Curry Mile'. It includes cuisines such as Pakistani, Indian, Punjabi, Persian, Nepalese and more. Everybody has a favourite, but hey what do they know, the Persian owned 'Tandoori Kitchen' is the best, with some interesting Iranian dishes and sweet yellow nans. I take it you are on business and may be abusing expenses? So enough of the student food... MID RANGE EATING: Heathcoates It's ok, though it has been up and down on my last few visits. Room is big and airy, but windowless; cooking is modern British, with an emphasis on local products. Restaurant Bar and Grill Ok, this is owned by my company, so I'm biased, but's it's still a favourite. It's a big, bustling city centre brasserie, with a menu of steak, fish, modern med classics and a couple of Asian inspired dished. Service is normally excellent, and the simple cooking allows the quality of the ingredients to come through. Samsi Yakitori The first city centre Japanese to ignore the crowd pleasing teppanyaki antics. A cavernous atmosphere houses excellent chefs, outstanding food as well as attentive service. Extensive sushi, sashimi and grill menus and some of the best Japanese cooking outside the capital. A recent visit to Nobu NY only reinforced its quality. Mr Thomas's Chop House ('Sam's Chop House' is owned by the same company) If you want traditional, quality English cooking in a Dickensian style tiled city boozer then this is the place. Open for lunches only, but their liver and onions, and braised beef with mustard mash are very good indeed, and complimented by an extensive wine list. Croma If you fancy playing it safe with a Pizza Express type place, then this restaurant was set up by the two most successful PE francisees (how do you spell that?) who ran the King St outlet. It looks and feels similar, but is slightly cheaper, slightly better, and has some more adventurous pizzas. The Market Restaurant Eccentric place that looks like your gran's (well my gran's) front room. Great food, fantastic wine and Belgian beer list, and home of the pudding club - spotted dick for all! Gaia If you make it to the Eastern edge of the city centre (actually, near Malmaison), you'll find the gay village based around Canal Street (or 'anal treet' as somebody with a sense of humour and a bottle of tippex has amended the street sign to). It's mainly a 'bar' area, but the much improved 'Olive' deli is ok for basics, and 'Gaia' is actually shaping up to be a not bad restaurant, with a nice relaxed ambience. If you are in the area then Velvet and Taurus (also on Canal St) are good for contemporary cafe-bar standards. Kro2 This is a sleek Scandinavian style place on Oxford Rd, serving tasty, filling Danish food. The veal meatballs with boiled potatos and red cabbage keeps the chill out on those cold Autumnal days. Good beer too. There are plenty of other decent mid range places about, so if you fancy exploring then try Armenian Taverna (as it sounds), the Koreana (again as it sounds), Pacific (minimalist place in Chinatown, Thai on one floor, Chinese on the other), Choice (like Restaurant Bar and Grill, but on the waterfront and with a quirkier menu), and others too numerous to mention UPPER RANGE EATING Nico Central (at the Midland Hotel), Petit Blanc, MPW River Rooms (at the Lowry Hotel), Rhodes and Co (at the Quality Hotel, Old Trafford - don't even step into the 'Rhodes-lite' diffusion brasserie in the Portland Hotel), The Lincoln: They all aspire to the middle-upper end of the market, and what can I say... I have had a couple of good meals, more patchy ones, and several notable stinkers. Whilst in all these venues some or all of the elements may be at the top of their games on any particular night, they just can't pull it together on a consistent basis. I would hate to send an experienced restaurant goer to any one of these places without preparing them for a general feeling of being underwhelmed, and possibly mild disappointment. The Three high end places in manchester which are absolutely worth a go are as follows: Yang Sing Without doubt one of the finest Chinese Restaurants in Europe. It's been an institution for over twenty years in Manchester, and has never let its standards slip. Ranging from the tradtional to the inventive, the cooking is never less than excellent, and the ingredients are top notch. Dim Sum are legendary, and don't hesitate to ask your waiter or waitress to take you on an off-menu tour. Juniper Not everyone I know thinks as highly of Paul Kitching's Altricham (about 20 minutes South of the City Centre, tram or car) outpost as I do, but at its best it is outstanding. The only Michelin starred restaurant in Greater Manchester, and he's angling for a second. There has been a slight overhaul since my last visit, with a redesigned dining space and a few staff changes, but I would recommend you make the trek out. Le Mont Picked up a couple of good reviews (though not without reservations) from the nationals in its early days. This restaurant is really out on its own in terms of the Manchester eating and drinking landscape. It is a airy white space, housed in the tip of the 'Urbis' centre. The Urbis itself is an architectural tour de force, a huge shard of glass rising out of a park in the recently blossoming 'Millenium Quarter' of the city centre. The restaurant itself has an incredible view, being over 80ft about the streets - ask for a table in the 'prow' if you can. The exec chef is Robert Kisby, and the food is modern French, though with real attention paid to local produce. The traceability of the meats (lamb bred on the Cumbrian salt marshes) is exemplary. I didn't find a weak dish, though a couple could lose at least one of their elements. Desserts were top drawer, and the wine list is good too. SUBURBS If you can tear yourself away from the city, then try West Didsbury (kind of like Islington?) with Greens, the Great Katmandu and the Lime Tree outstanding, or Chorlton with Palmiro (a great modern Italian), and the Barbakan (a wonderful Deli, and supplies German and Polish breads to Selfridges amongst others). DRINKS I'm sure you can find yourself a trendy bar or two (Restaurant Bar and Grill, Living Room, Tribeca, One Central St, Loaf, Zinc etc), but if you want something with more character its back to The Northern Quarter to Cord, Centro or Matt and Phreds Jazz club. If you want untarnished jewels of English pubbery, with 'proper' beer, then do not miss the following: Marble Arch 5 mins walk out of the City Centre on Rochdale Road. An untouched Victorian boozer, with tiled walls and a barrel tiled roof. It has its own micro brewery in the back, and produces fantastic, award winning, organic beers. My local! Pot of Beer and The Beer House are also both very good, and within a couple of hundred metres of the front door. Britons Protection OK beer (Tetleys I think), but go here for the whiskies. There are nearly 200 to sample, and they specialise in Irish. Very popular with musicians from the Bridgewater Hall (home of the Halle orchestra) opposite, and the Irish tourists in the Jurys Inn next door (when they are in town for the football). Hare and Hounds This pub used to serve the Smithfield produce market behind, and still retains an earthy though always interesting clientele. Invariably nights here end up with a lock in and someone playing the piano, Les Dawson style. Ole Wellington Inn/Sinclairs Oyster Bar Decent beer, ok food, fabulous surroundings. This pair of pubs dates from over 450 years ago, and have actually been moved brick by brick twice (due to redevelopment). The Circus Another Tetley pub, and one of the smallest ever. Room for one behind the bar, and not many more in front of it. It'll give you agrophobia if you ever end up in a Wetherspoons again... The Castle This is one of the most terrifyingly authentic old style Manchester pubs. Always an experience, and the beer ain't bad either. Peveril of the Peak Old multi-roomed tiled coaching house. Decent beers, and it's got a pool table too. What more could you want... Dukes 92 Down on the canals in Castlefield, it has great outdoor seating, and the biggest Ploughmans lunch you have ever seen. A modern pub done right. Looking back, I may have gone a trifle over the top with this extensive listing... But hey, it makes me happy, and hopefully it will improve your visit to the North. Come on, I don't get much opportunity to flex my local knowedge on here, you bunch of metropolitan snobs and Southern jessies... Cheers Thom