FeChef

I have had really good results smoking partially frozen dry aged (pellicle) chuck roasts for 4+ hours and bringing internal temp to 150F. Then slathering with a thick bbq sauce and vacuum sealing it, then SV for 24-28 hours at 158F. The partially frozen state (pellicle formed skin) allows the bark to get really thick and the thick bbq sauce absorbs any juice that expelled from the meat during the long cooking process. The texture ends up being what i describe as "chop shred" every bite is an extremely moist burnt end.

I would go with 185F for double the recipe time. You can always add more water or make a concentrated stock instead of broth. Obviously apples to oranges, but for example when i make pork stock i cook it down to where its double or triple concentrated. Then filter and chill and remove the top fat layer and reheat the gelatin and pour into ice cube trays and freeze. I can then use those cubes as is for a really intense dish or add a cup of water or vegatable stock for a really flavorful pork stock. Also, it helps to fine chop or shred the vegetables so you extraxt the most flavor, and would most likely cut your time down, but i would still cook it down further.

I sourced those soy sauce packets somewhat locally (30 miles) and a case of 500 is like $5usd. I am just going to go that route from now on. They definely have a milder flavor/aroma then even that La Choy brand. I dont know if it has to do with being better quality (which i doubt) or its just that alot of people dont care for the strong flavor of "authentic" soy sauce/s. Its probably specificly made to be a salt substitute with a hint of soy sauce flavor. I mean now that i think about it, I have never seen salt packets, or salt shakers in any chinese take out places. Obviously im in the minority of people that dont care for super strong flavor "authentic" quality soy sauce.

Ok so here is an update. I made a batch of my general tso sauce that i love when i use those soy sauce packets.(yes i know general tso is an chinese american dish) Anyway, i used the La Choy soy sauce and while it turned out better then using kikkoman, it still had a slightly unpleasant taste to it. Smell was not an issue atleast. Anyway, i found a packet of soy sauce i normally get at my favorite place and its called Yi Pin. Whats strange is the ingredients. Soy is not even listed! It taste really good, i could drink the stuff straight out the packet...LOL maybe im crazy, but i like what i like, and you only live once. So anyway, i found a picture of the stuff so here it is.

I am sure you are right about that. But there is still more flavor then just salt, water, and caramel coloring. I personally dont care what is artifical and whats not. I am like that bizzare food slogan "if it taste good, eat it"

Yeah legs are the cheapest way to go. You can make a really gelatinous stock if you strip all the skin, meat, and bones away and break the bones in half. Also the more you add to the pot, the quicker and stronger it will be. I am making a pork stock right now that has been reduced twice already. Its so gelatinous it doesnt even freeze! And the best part is i get the pork neck bones w/meat on them for $0.50/lb.

I like soy sauce, just not the fermented variety. It took me awhile to realize the difference, or why i didnt like one or the other.

You going to get more collagen/gelatin from chicken feet, and im pretty sure there cheap if you can source them. Not sure where you are but here in the usa, chicken wings are the most expensive part on the chicken.

I find this hilarious. It seems the worst person to ask about chinese food in the USA is someone from china. Dont take that the wrong way. Its just that this is how chinese take outs run their business here. The places are run by chinese, not americans. Another thing is that alot of people in the usa are obsessed with watching their sodium levels, so chinese take outs most likely cut back alot on the soy/sodium in the dishes. Using wonton soup as an example it has barely any salt in it. They probably use low sodium chicken broth/stock. Its really the only item i order that definitely needs a soy packet or two.

You use them as a condiment just like you would use a ketchup packet when you order french fries at mcdonalds to go. I know mcdonalds is in just about every country so surely you know what a ketchup packet is? Anyway, the soy sauce packets are given to you when you order food to go at chinese/asian take-out places. You can use them to put on your meal if you feel it needs a more salty taste. I like to put a few packets of soy sauce in my wonton and egg drop soup.

Thank you huiray for your very detailed information. As ive mentioned, the distinct flavor im referring to in the "meifun" dish is not curry so the "singapore" version is out the window. But this distinct flavor im talking about is common from one place to another. Some maybe more "bold" then other places. You may be right that this could be a sauce that gets reduced which would explain the stronger flavor from place to place. I do have a few brands of oyster sauce that i have tried. One is some cheap stuff i got at walmart called dynasty oyster sauce. I have used this stuff in a few general tso sauce recipes and it was not bad at all when i used those soy sauce packets. Its when i used kikkoman, or any other brand that used brewed/fermented soybeans that ruined it for me. I will have to take another go at this with this hydrolyzed soy sauce. I picked up a bottle of La Choy soy sauce today at a grocery store about 18 miles from me. I plan to experiment with it all this week. I use alot of MSG in my food but i dont think that is the flavor im tasting in these meifun dishes. I remember reading something about this XO sauce you mentioned. Its been awhile so i will have to read more about it, and if it sounds like something i may like i will order it from amazon or something. I picked up a bottle of this stuff from a company called Assi soba sauce. It said its a sauce good for noodles so i thought i might try it. It wasnt cheap ($8usd) for 16oz bottle. But im desperate to find this distinct flavor. I just remembered there is a product i bought tha had a flavor that was similair to this distinct flavor im talking about, and it came from packet #2 in a yakisoba spicy chicken ramen container. They cost about $1usd , so its not very cost effective to buy jusy for the #2 packet.

Yes i know the packets isnt the best way to go but untill today i did not know what hydrolyzed soy was. I only knew i liked the taste of the stuff in the packets. Also, yes i could buy any asian ingredient online IF i knew what i am looking for. I have spent $$$ buying all kinds of asian ingredients and sauces at local grocery stores just to try them and see what they taste like. Sadly, they were probably bad examples of what "quality" asian ingredients should taste like. I have spent a good portion of today scouring the internet trying to find a recipe for mei fun that includes an asian ingredient i never heard of. Sadly, no dice yet.

jayt90 sent me in the right direction pointing out hydrolyzed soy. After reading up on it, i found that they are able to extract the flavor without fermenting. Also that there is no smell, where naturally brewed fermented soy has a smell that is probably the smell i dont like. There is also a bitter-ish tangy-ness to the fermented soy that i dont like either. I am almost certain now that every chinese take-out that ive eaten at and liked probably doesnt use fermented soy sauce in their cooking. They may have a bottle of kikoman at the table, but probably just there for show. Im sure they use the good hydrolyzed stuff in the back.

Thanks. I know i have tried a few of La Choy brand sauces. I cant say i liked the taste of those sauces, but it could have just been something else in the sauces that i didnt like. Hopefully i will like the soy sauce though. Its worth a shot, and i think i saw that brand soy sauce at one of the local grocery in my area. Damn....not carried at my local walmart, and out of stock at another walmart 20 miles from me. Damn, not sure what grocery store i saw it at.

There is definitely another flavor besides the flavor from the pork, shrimp..ect. The flavor is cooked into the rice noodles. I am thinking maybe the oil they use has some flavor infused into it that i have not heard of or tasted in anything else.

Mostly "regular" and tamari kikoman brand. I have tried generic store name stuff aswell. The only one i ever found that was tolerable was Pearl river bridge mushroom flavor dark soy sauce. I cant find it anymore where i live and not really what i am after but it was better then everything else ive bought. There is not much choices in my area for asian ingredients. There is no asian markets anywhere. Every grocery store in 50 miles has probably 36 inches of shelf space to fill with asian ingredients that are either bottles of sauces or cans horrible asian veg that leave a funky metal taste in the food.

I just used that image as a reference for Liuzhou since he/she never heard of soy sauce packets. I cant say i ever tried that brand.

The problem is that there are so many "asian dishes" that are on the menu at "chinese take-outs"in america. There is chinese,japanese,cantonese,thai...ect..ect. I have no idea what is what. I am not of any asian decent so when i search for a recipe for a favorite asian dish i must rely on the internet. And 9m out of 10 times all the recipes i find require soy sauce as the main flavor enhancer. Some dishes i have hard time finding recipes. An example is a dish called "meifun" it comes in a wide variety of ways. 3 main ones are shrimp, house special, and singapore. I dont like the flavor of curry so did not like the singapore version, but the house special is my favorite that comes with pork, chicken,and shrimp in it. The seasoning they use is like no other flavor ive ever tasted. Its not very dark in color so a dark soy sauce is most likely not used. Its served on the dry side so i doubt they use a sauce. I have ordered this dish at many local chinese/asian take-outs and they are all similair in taste. Every recipe i find for meifun or maifun require either curry (singapore version) or soy sauce with no other stand out flavor besides chicken broth/stock.

See this is the type of information i was asking help with. What makes this type soy sauce, and have that umami flavor? Also, could it be that most "asian take-out" use this type , but just in large containers instead of packets?

Alot of dishes/recipes call for oyster sauce. All the bottles i have/have used have fermented soy in the ingredient list. If i reword chinese take-out to asian take-out would that make you feel better?

Yes i realize i can try to buy the packets. I even considered asking the local chinese take-out's if they would sell me a box. But i really posted here to find out information on the differences. Mainly what are they using to cook with that doeesnt ruin the smell/taste of the food i buy from them. Are they even using soy sauce? When i make any asian dish at home, it always calls for soy sauce and its the same dishes i buy when i go chinese take-out. Im confused. I have tried narrowing down every ingredient i add and it all comes down to the soy sauce. Sometimes its another variant of soy sauce like stir fry sauce, teryiaki sauce, oyster sauce..ect..ect. All have fermented soy in the ingredient list, and all kikoman,la choy, and asian gourmet brands.

I did some google searching and it sounds like the burning in the throat could be an allergic reaction to soy. I dont know if im allergic though because the soy sauce packets contain soy and those dont effect me at all. They dont say fermented soy on them like the bottled stuff does so im wondering if that could be a factor.

I dont know why but love those chinese take-out soy sauce packets. I have tried all kinds of store bought brand names and i can not stand the smell and taste of them. Some even make my throat burn. Not like a spicy capcaisin or horseradish burn, but like this weird burn you would get if you swallowed salt water while swimming in the ocean. Sorry its the best way i can describe this feeling. Anyway, I am hoping someone knows more about all the different types of soy sauce that could steer me in the right direction. Just incase this gets mentioned....I do not find these soy sauces too salty. I actually add salt to some of my dishes if i run out of these soy sauce packets. And when im out of the packets and am forced to use the store bought bottles, i try to use less soy sauce and add salt instead. So being too salty is not the problem. Thanks. And yes i am aware the salt water reference sounds contradicting, but i cant think of any other way to describe this sensation in my throat from these store bought brands.

The paper towels did the job. The brisket wasnt swimming in a pool of liquids.The rub stayed on the brisket. But the bark/crust still lost some of its crunchy texture. I think longer dry ageing and a harder pellicle will be needed next time. The brisket did turn out fantastic though. I decided to chill overnight and slice it thin, instead of chopping it like you would burnt ends. It was borderline slice/pull whicj is the texture i like. Next time im going to dry age a chuck roast and form a thick bark then SV and chop/pull it for burnt ends.