FeChef

Anyone try making some? I didnt find any recipes online that make use of nitrites/nitrates. I wanted that "ham-e" flavor so i used some morton tender quick that i had on hand. Morton says you can use it as a replacement for salt so i went with a 4% water/MTQ brine. I have a few boneless chicken breats soaking for two days so far. I am wondering if thats enough MTQ to give it that pink "ham" color or if i should up the percentage? Also, how many days should i cure them. They are not very thick breasts. At most 1 1/2 inches at the largest end. Also, what do you think about adding some liquid smoke into the brine? To give it that smoked flavor.

Brining the chicken slices in salt/papain solution did not seem to tenderize any more then without. Since the slices were only 1/4 inch thick i only sous vide them for 1 hour at 140F. Maybe the papain percentage was too low to be effective but anymore would have made the slices too salty. I need to source pure papain powder to test this further. Also 1/4 inch was probably a bit too thin for this experiment. Next time i will slice 1/2 inch.

I decided to postpone the experiment till tommorow. Right now the slices are brining. Papain is only active between 140F-160F so the longer brine time shoul not make much difference. Also the sodium percent is on the lower end so i dont expect too much difference in taste. Now to answer your question, yes i have in the past tried various times from 90 minutes to upwards of 12 hours. I have only noticed a fall apart texture, not a softer pliable one. Has nobody noticed this with sous vide cooking? I find it hard to believe i am alone in this. Again, i am not talking about tenderness or juicy, i am only talking about the firmness of it.

I decided for educational purposes to try a salt/papain brine solution of roughly 3%. I could not get my hands on pure papain powder so i had to settle for 1% papain, 19% sodium per 1g. I used my hobart to make length wise 1/4 inch slices a a whole breast to simulate a filet. I will try a few different experiments with using a cornstarch slurry and sous vide at 140F and also quickly deep fried (1-2 min) and also without a slurry. Also considering a flash fry of 30 seconds and then sous vide to see if it changes the pliability aswell. Any other suggests welcome before i begin. Going to give the chicken an hour to absorb the brine.

I think rotuts made a good point about muscle fibers contracting. I remember reading a post about allowing certain fibers to break down at lower temps before reaching target temps. I believe it was a discussion on beef though. Not sure how that would relate to poultry. Maybe starting at a lower temp of say 131.5F then gradually increasing to target temp of lets say 139F-140F would produce a softer more pliable result.

I dont know what your talking about. The picture you linked looks no different then what i can make. The picture does not depict how soft and pliable the chicken is. If you took that chicken and held one end up, would the other end completely flop down, or stay in a horizontal position?

I dont know. The only chicken dish i rarely get at a chinese take out is chicken w/broccoli which is thinly sliced strips of chicken. The chicken is always super soft and tender though. Almost unreal, and probably why that old american rumor that they use cats instead of chicken..lol

Another theory i had was vacuum bagging would hold the muscle fibers tightly together but i use the water displacement method with ziplock bags to the chicken is loosely resting inside the bag.

I dont know why but this got me thinking about sous vide chuck roast vs smoked chuckies. I notice that sous vide a chuck roast @132F produced a firm slab of beef. While a low and slow smoked chuck roast probed @ 132F produced a slab of beef flapping all over the place. Both were cooked to the same temp but one was sous vide cooked for 24 hours and the other smoked at a low temp for at most 3-4 hours.

Yes i have tried pounding with mallet, and also jaccard. Both help tenderize but dont really make much more pliable.

Where did i say chinese take out uses sous vide method? What i am asking is if its possible to get that pliable soft chicken breast using sous vide method, or is this something that needs to be done traditionally with braising. If so, what is the reason why it doesnt seem to work using sous vide method. And if it is possible, what needs to be done to achieve this specific texture.

I thought this aswell but aside from the surface being silky from the cornstarch, ive never been able to get that extremly soft texture you get from chinese take out chicken. Thats also a topic for debate. I read alot that chinese take outs use tenderizing enzymes like i mentioned in my original post. I have tried those aswell but always ended up with a salty sour tasting end result.

I dont know why but whenever i try to do chicken breast filets via sous vide they come out very juicy and tender....but FIRM.I usually cook them at 140F. Im looking for that juicy tender silky soft texture you get at a 4/5 star itailian restaurant with dishes like chicken marsala. I have made chicken marsala before with a traditonal braise and while the chicken was softer in texture then sous vide, its reaching the point where you could shred it with a fork. I am wondering if its not so much the time and temp , but rather the method of cooking. Or possibly tenderizing enzymes like papain/bromelian that give it that soft texture. Incase anyone doesnt understand what i mean by soft, imagine a raw chicken filet and how pliable it is. Similar to that but cooked all way through with at most a very slight pink tinge. Very slight if any.

From experience, i have only noticed benefit from brining for long periods raw. I tried brining while long cooking via sous vide and was not pleased with results. For one, its hard for flavor to go in while cooking causes liquids to come out. I could see this only benefit something over cooked like say reconsituting beef jerky. Then a marinate would absorb. But a perfectly cooked steak to lets say 132F, i highly doubt any marinade would penetrate the surface.

An easy way to get "tomato water" is to buy a 28oz can of ground tomatoes and dump into a double screen strainer and leave untouched for 30 minutes or longer. Usually amounts to 8oz clear liquid. I always throw it out since im doing this to make a pizza sauce and want to remove the acidity in the liquid.

I recently did pastrami like this. I got some CB point cuts for 0.99/lb. I soaked them for 2 days changing out the water every 12 hours. I sous vide them @ 132F for 48 hours. Chilled overnight. rubbed them with molasses,then a dry rub of black pepper and corriander. smoked till internal reached 155F. Best damn pastrami ive ever tasted and would prefer it over smoked brisket any day. Molasses really gave it a nice crust.

temperature only impacts smoke ring formation. All meats will continue to absorb smoke flavor no matter what temperature. Lower temps may absorb more and at a faster rate but in my experience, even meat pre cooked to temps of 155F still absorb smoke flavor. just more subtle (which i prefer subtle anyway) If your going to smoke first then sous vide I would either cold smoke no more then 2 hours at temps below 70F or smoke till reaching pastuerization temps.

are you Mr Kim? If so, why do you refer to yourself in the third person?

Dude, get some Transglutaminase and call it a night. Will solve all your binding issues and will add no added flavor. No need for eggs, bread crumbs, salt..ect..ect. You can add as much cooked bacon and you want.

That was just a pic i found that looked very close to what i was talking about. As far as the taste of what im trying to duplicate, its salty like you would get with a 5% brine solution, but is also savory with that umami flavor. Probably a brine of salt, msg and soy sauce and red food coloring powder. It could be just salt and no soy sauce but i thought due to the darker color they use soy sauce, but it could just be a different cut of meat that uis alot darker then shoulder. I dunno.

I was not too happy about the flavor of Barbara Tropps recipe. It was not sweet but the flavor was just off. I used a pork loin i had on hand and it was too lean so im sure that may have contributed aswell. I will have to do some research on what cut of pork is leaner then shoulder, but not as lean as pork loin or tenderloin.

We just ordered chinese take out a few days ago so im not sure when i would get a picture but i found a good example of what it looks like doing a google search and finding this website here. http://virginialicious.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/chinese_noodle-soup.jpg Here is the picture if you prefer not to click the link to its source. I have to reference the source due to egullet rules.

It could be just what you describe. I do not know. It does have that "fake" red ring around the slices. Its very tender and very flavorful. I have, just for experiment purposes, rinsed off a slice and tasted it and it definitely has alot of flavor without the sauce. It also has a darker color beneath the red ring. Similar to dark meat turkey. Its obviously not turkey. The darker color could just be from being stir fried in the brown sauce though. But it does appear to be darker in color through out the meat and not just the surface. Most likely a soy sauce based marinade.

East coast. I dont know how they prep either pork dish, I just know there is nothing sweet in the roast pork you get in pork sir fry dishes atleast in all the east coast take outs i have been to. Also the pork for the stir fry is leaner then what you would get in char siu. Anyway, I took Franci's advice and followed the recipe for northern style roast pork. I will report back after ive tried it. It takes a few days just to marinate so it will be a few days.

For everyone wondering whati meant by "chinese roast pork" is thin sliced pork (similar to char siu) but its slightly salty and savory. No sweet taste as it would not go well in a stir fry of chinese vegetables in a "brown sauce" that is also very savory. This is common dish in amercan chinese take outs. If you still have no idea what im talking about i dont know what to say. Thanks for the links and info, it should atleast be a step in the right direction. I had no idea the differences of northern style , cantonese, hunan..ect