Dave the Cook

Decide for yourself.

I think that's what I would have done, if I'd been in your place, figuring I'd still have some leeway if it looked too stiff. I'm glad it turned out well.

True, if you're using a dry measure for the powder. But I think Nestle assumes that people will take a liquid measuring cup and pour in 1/3 powder, then add to the one-cup line. Yes, it's another assumption, but a reasonable one, I think. I'm as sure as I can be that Nestle tests it this way, because consumers are lazy and don't really know that dry measures aren't the same as liquid measures. But you're right that the volume of milk will collapse upon dissolution, so 2/3 C water probably isn't enough. Anyway, now that we have a weight (23g) to work with, that's irrelevant. Thanks for digging that up, Rachel. But I don't get the 3.2 pounds per 8 gallons. 23 grams is required for 1 cup of milk one gallon = 16 cups 16 * 23g = 368g 368g * 8 gallons = 2944g 2944/454 grams per pound = 6.485 pounds to make 8 gallons, or about 13 ounces per gallon. This agrees with the yield from a 9.6 ounce box: enough powder to make 12 cups, or 3 quarts -- 23 g, or 0.8 ounces, per cup (0.8 * 16 = 12.8 ounces, close enough considering how much rounding goes on with metric-English conversions) So the recipe calls for enough powder to make about 10 gallons of milk (8 pounds * 16 ounces = 128 ounces), 25% more liquid than the recipe needs. You're going to have to remove liquid from somewhere else, but I bet there's not much other liquid in the recipe.

Someone needs to check my arithmetic, and Jason, be aware that this is based on one crucial assumption -- if you've got an empty box around, you should check this. All of this assumes that the information on the label that Rachel linked to is a one-pound box of instant product. Nestle says that to reconstitute to one cup of non-fat milk, you start with 1/3 cup powder. This means you would have to add 5-1/3 ounces of water to make a cup. In a one-pound box, there are 12 servings, or 4 cups per pound, or 32 fluid ounces. The recipe calls for eight pounds of milk -- the equivalent of 96 servings. Using Nestle's formula, 96 servings of milk would require 512 ounces of water (96*5.33) 512 ounces of water plus 256 ounces (a volume measurement of the powder, per Nestle's directions; 8 pounds * 32 fluid ounces per pound) is 768 fluid ounces, or six gallons. The recipe calls for eight gallons of reconstituted liquid (six of water, plus two of powder). I conclude that you need to use six gallons of non-fat liquid milk, plus two gallons water. (crossing my fingers)

Actually I'm pretty sure their grills ARE hotter. Typical steakhouse grills are so much hotter than what most people have at home that it almost requires a completely different way of cooking. They think it saves them money? See... the joke is that water and ice are made of the same stuff. Actually, I think this IS half of an answer. Ice is often put in soda for that reason, even though the cost difference is pretty minimal if the soda is from a fountain. Except Winot's right, ice is more expensive than just plain water. (I'm not sure how it compares to soft-drink syrup.) But I think this happens mainly because there's a perception that ice water tastes better than tap- or room-temperature water. The ice also deadens the chlorine aroma.

Yes, including no small number of your fellow eGulls.

I was thinking the tan as well. I've never done my own lard (though I think I will this weekend, thanks to these last few posts), but it seemed to me, based on the chicken and duck fat that I've rendered, that you could adjust for color pretty easily. Of course, you can always mix the white and tan to taste, I suppose. fifi's Lard-rendering procedure

Which would you use for frying chicken?

If they lasted that long.

I'd be interested in the basis for this theory. Why does temperature effect the rate at which food absorbs smoke? If it is true, my guess would be that the surface of the food reachs 140F much quicker than the interior. Are folks wasting a lot of effort by keeping their smokers stocked with hickory during the entire cooking process? This may provide something of an answer. Thanks, dls. This backs up the Smoke Ring information, and adds a bit more.

Surprisingly, low-fat, cultured buttermilk has lots more sugar than heavy cream (which has almost no sugar at all), as well as more protein. The big difference, of course, is fat (cream: ~37%; buttermilk: <1%).

I'd be interested in the basis for this theory. Why does temperature effect the rate at which food absorbs smoke? If it is true, my guess would be that the surface of the food reachs 140F much quicker than the interior. Are folks wasting a lot of effort by keeping their smokers stocked with hickory during the entire cooking process? I have research on this, but I can't get my hands on it for a while. In the meantime, maybe one of you mathematically-inclined types can figure out the time for an eight-pound, 40 F mass to reach 140 F at a depth of, say, 3/16 inch, in a 225 F chamber?

Part of the problem might be the perception of how hot the oil is. The smokepoint of refined peanut oil is in the neighborhood of 425 F to 440 F. Refine grapeseed can be as high as 485 F. It seems to me that using the appearance of the oil is going be misleading. For instance, EVOO gets that shimmery look at a much lower temperature than canola, and I'm guessing that grapeseed will have to be hotter than peanut to get the same look. phaelon56's breadcrumb technique works as a general indicator, but it's really hard to know if the temperature is stabilized, and not continuing to rise (though adding the room-temp fish will certainly dampen all but the most meteoric rise). I'm with Mayhaw Man -- use a thermometer.

Eric: You don't have to brine, but you'll be glad you did, if you have time. If you have the Weber chimney (which is larger than the usual kind, but is highly recommended, at least by me), use about two-thirds of a chimney-full to start. If you have a standard-size chimney, start with a full load. Either way, keep the firebox vents open until you get a feel for the temperature. There's some controversy about the moisturizing and thermal stabilizing effects of a water pan, but this much is agreed: keeping one under your butt will save a lot of clean-up. There are a number of good threads on butt smoking. You'll probably find them both informative and amusing. Here's a couple: I Have Much Pork Behold My Butt! Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

You poor deprived Yankee. They're in all the markets down here (Atlanta) this time of year.

Pickles in tuna salad.

Sometimes when people say green tomatoes they mean tomatillos (tomate verde), which are not actually tomatoes. In fact, I saw fried green tomatillos on the menu at NOLA (one of Emeril's places) not long ago. I don't think it's a bad substitiution.

Welcome, Kevin! Nice recipe. Your and Mindy's warning about BBQ sauce are well taken. I also think it bears repeating that very few recipes call for the use of a grill. Nice touch with the beer. Assuming you're not deliberately kissing up to the Louisiana Forum Host, I think you'll find that praising Abita will take you far in these parts (even if you don't like okra).

Focusing on the wrong detail. Different salt will have a varying volume when measured. The point is that salt needs to be measured by its weight. You're right, of course, chefdg, but I think malcolmjolley was referring to ExtraMSG's preference for pickling salt. In any case, ExtraMSG is misinformed. Due to differences in surface-to-mass ratio, different crystal shapes will dissolve at different rates (in fact, Kosher salt, especially the Diamond Crystal brand, will dissolve faster than table salt, for this very reason). But they will all dissolve eventually, at any temperature above 32 F (0 C). The only limitation is the amount of salt a given volume of water will hold, and reasonable brining formulae do not approach this limit.

One of our gardeners will have to answer the question of variety, but I'm not sure it matters much. The essential features of a green tomato are its acidity (which contrasts with the fat and breading), and its dry firmness (which lets it stand up to the breading and frying process). As for when to pick them: when they quit getting bigger, but before they start to redden. If you wait for the faintest pink blush at the stem, you're assured of maximum size and tartness, and almost optimum texture. I'd bet Mayhaw Man has a few other pointers.

Roughness, pitting and increased friction are all ways of describing the results of the same process. When chrome plating is in good shape, it's extermely hard, with a low coefficient of friction, which makes it seem slippery. (Well, it is slippery, by most definitions.) Think satin, or silk: tight, slick and shiny. Exposure to heat causes the plating to deteriorate. It bubbles at a microscopic level, and this causes the surface to break into a gazillion tiny little craters. Think velvet or suede. Ideally, I suppose, oven interiors would be made entirely out of Teflon, but it's only good up to about 600 F -- not high enough for broiler units or close proximity to coils or burners that need to heat the oven to 550 F.

All good thoughts. A few more: Room-temperature whites will inflate more easily than cold. Supposedly you can start whipping with the sugar already in the bowl, as long as you aren't adding a lot. But I don't see any reason to tempt fate. Sugar crystals can act like tiny little knives, deflating your protein bubbles almost as quickly as you create them. I always wait until I've got soft peaks, then add the sugar gradually. Especially with an electric mixer, you need to start slow. Get a decent foam going before cranking the spped up.

I made this tonight; a great success, and a very close approximation of Mr. B's, even with my home-kitchen changes. Modified recipe in RecipeGullet.

Barbecued Shrimp, New Orleans Style Serves 4 as Appetizeror 2 as Main Dish. If time allows, brine the shrimp for 30 minutes in one quart of water, 2-1/2 ounces (70 grams) salt and 1 ounce (15 grams) white sugar. Drain and rinse before proceding with recipe. You can use headless shrimp, but the sauce won't be as rich (like three ounces of butter isn't rich enough), nor quite as interesting, and you'll miss the pleasure of having shrimp fat spurt into your face as you pinch the heads off. Going further, you can use peeled shrimp. Just remove them from the sauce and set them aside before shaking in the butter. Once the sauce is done, dump the shrimp into your serving vessel and pour the sauce over, The sauce will have enough heat to re-warm the shrimp. Usually, barbecued shrimp are served with French bread or biscuits for mopping up the sauce. Emeril's "New New Orleans Cooking" has a great recipe for rosemary mini-biscuits that works really well. But consider cheese grits as an accompaniment: 5 ounces (140 grams) stone-ground grits, two cups milk, one cup water, one T butter, 1 t salt, a few drops pepper sauce. When the grits are thickened, stir in 1-1/2 ounces really sharp cheddar, grated. 1-1/4 lb Unpeeled, head-on shrimp 6 oz unsalted butter, cut into 48 cubes Seasoning mix 1/2 c Worcertershire sauce 1-1/2 fl oz lemon juice 4-1/2 tsp ground black pepper 2 tsp minced garlic 2 tsp sweet paprika 1/2 tsp kosher salt 1/2 tsp granulated garlic 1/2 tsp granulated onion 1/2 tsp dried thyme 1/2 tsp dried oregano 1/2 tsp dried basil 1/4 tsp cayenne 1. Combine seasoning mix. 2. Pour the seasoning mix into a 12-inch saute pan. Heat over medium-high until bubbling. 3. Add shrimp to pan. Toss, turn, stir, whatever, just until shrimp turn pink, about four minutes. 4. Turn the heat to low, and wait a couple of minutes for the pan to cool a bit. 5. Add the butter cubes about six at a time, shaking the pan (not stirring with a spoon; and a whisk will do you no good at all among all those lega and antennae) to incoporate the butter into the sauce. Watch the sauce carefully. If fit appears to be breaking (beads or streaks of fat will appear in the surafce), remove it from the heat and continue shaking. Reduce the burner heat slightly and return the pan when the sauce has recovered. 6. Scoop the shrimp into a serving dish and pour the sauce over. Serve with lots of napkins. Keywords: Main Dish, Seafood, Intermediate, Shrimp, Brunch, Lunch, Dinner, Hot and Spicy, American ( RG1069 )

Barbecued Shrimp, New Orleans Style Serves 4 as Appetizeror 2 as Main Dish. If time allows, brine the shrimp for 30 minutes in one quart of water, 2-1/2 ounces (70 grams) salt and 1 ounce (15 grams) white sugar. Drain and rinse before proceding with recipe. You can use headless shrimp, but the sauce won't be as rich (like three ounces of butter isn't rich enough), nor quite as interesting, and you'll miss the pleasure of having shrimp fat spurt into your face as you pinch the heads off. Going further, you can use peeled shrimp. Just remove them from the sauce and set them aside before shaking in the butter. Once the sauce is done, dump the shrimp into your serving vessel and pour the sauce over, The sauce will have enough heat to re-warm the shrimp. Usually, barbecued shrimp are served with French bread or biscuits for mopping up the sauce. Emeril's "New New Orleans Cooking" has a great recipe for rosemary mini-biscuits that works really well. But consider cheese grits as an accompaniment: 5 ounces (140 grams) stone-ground grits, two cups milk, one cup water, one T butter, 1 t salt, a few drops pepper sauce. When the grits are thickened, stir in 1-1/2 ounces really sharp cheddar, grated. 1-1/4 lb Unpeeled, head-on shrimp 6 oz unsalted butter, cut into 48 cubes Seasoning mix 1/2 c Worcertershire sauce 1-1/2 fl oz lemon juice 4-1/2 tsp ground black pepper 2 tsp minced garlic 2 tsp sweet paprika 1/2 tsp kosher salt 1/2 tsp granulated garlic 1/2 tsp granulated onion 1/2 tsp dried thyme 1/2 tsp dried oregano 1/2 tsp dried basil 1/4 tsp cayenne 1. Combine seasoning mix. 2. Pour the seasoning mix into a 12-inch saute pan. Heat over medium-high until bubbling. 3. Add shrimp to pan. Toss, turn, stir, whatever, just until shrimp turn pink, about four minutes. 4. Turn the heat to low, and wait a couple of minutes for the pan to cool a bit. 5. Add the butter cubes about six at a time, shaking the pan (not stirring with a spoon; and a whisk will do you no good at all among all those lega and antennae) to incoporate the butter into the sauce. Watch the sauce carefully. If fit appears to be breaking (beads or streaks of fat will appear in the surafce), remove it from the heat and continue shaking. Reduce the burner heat slightly and return the pan when the sauce has recovered. 6. Scoop the shrimp into a serving dish and pour the sauce over. Serve with lots of napkins. Keywords: Main Dish, Seafood, Intermediate, Shrimp, Brunch, Lunch, Dinner, Hot and Spicy, American ( RG1069 )