ruthcooks

Meat is served bloody raw or cooked dry as a bone. Everything is under-salted, unless it is so over-salted you can’t eat it. Only margarine and no-fat salad dressings are available. Mashed potatoes are served cold and coleslaw warm. Canned vegetables are cooked one hour in a pressure cooker. The only herbs allowed are mint and cilantro; the only spices are cloves and allspice. There are no desserts. There is no water, of course. Coffee is available, but bitter as bile. Menu planning is sadistic: foods do not compliment each other, and special dinners have themes like “red and sweet”: hot dogs with catsup, beets, red Jell-O, and cinnamon apples. Food occasionally looks appetizing to get your hopes up, but tastes terrible. No one is ever allowed to talk about food, either to complain about the disgusting stuff we’re being fed or the good stuff we enjoyed in the previous life. No reading is allowed at table (or anywhere else, since this is my own private hell). My dining companions are….well, I don’t want to talk about them, it might ruin my appetite.

I just dug out my "Mr. Latte" and re-read the grandmother-in-Rome chapter. Still, I get only Amanda's sense of loss and sorrow at not being able to share a new food experience with her grandmother, and get no sense of her trying to be in control. (Perhaps I was so predisposed toward her writing before I picked up the book, that I just can't see it.) Was not part of the reason for the trip to experience the food? As to her criticisms of Tad's latte--and other food--habits and preferences, I felt Amanda's rather wistful-to-perhaps-desperate hope that they would be compatible in an area which meant so much to her. Would that I had been so foresighted. I spent over 30 years married to a man who had a limited interest in food and an even more limited list of foods he would eat. What a damper that put on my lifetime joy of food and cooking. And perhaps his refusal to try asparagus and twenty other vegetables had a lot to do with trying to control me in a way he knew would hurt. Making my food preferences known does not necessarily mean I'm trying to control others. If my dining partner thinks my beef stew needs more salt and I disagree, so what? But if I refuse to produce the salt shaker because I know that my seasoning is perfect, THEN it becomes a controlling issue. As for fear and insecurity showing up in Amanda's writing, no wonder. Here she is at a young age, held up as a food authority by none other than the lofty, pretentious and know-it-all NYT. Thousands or hundreds of thousands are just waiting for her to misstep or misspeak, especially those sour grapes food writers who covet her job. I do understand how you can become irritated with a writer who harps on the same theme all the time. There are several who irritate me also, for varying reasons.

Guess I'll be the judge who writes the dissenting opinion here... I loved Amanda's book. To me, it was the perfect balance of "story" to recipes. Doesn't anyone get tongue-in-cheek? I felt she was gently chiding herself for her opinions all through the pages, maybe even making up a few to present a more interesting angle. And why shouldn't she be frustrated when her attempts to share something with her grandmother were thwarted? Her criticisms were lovingly delivered, not mean spirited. Amanda's style bears some similarity to Laurie Colwin's in that they both write about life experiences and yet most people love Laurie's books. Laurie, however, seems unaware of her audience (e.g. talking about "all of us" rushing around with our young children as though everyone in the world were in her same stage of life), while Amanda seems quite aware of her age, sometimes a bit apologetic. I don't like scholarly tomes or restaurant coffee table books or Bourdain's pig-guts-and-hangover harangues, but Amanda is my cup of tea. Light, breezy and amusing. To each her own.

About my friend who called quiche "kwitchie"... She pronounced basil "bah-ZEEL".

I had a friend who was a great cook, but in restaurants asked for kwitchie (quiche) and bri with a long i (Brie).

I lived for 24 years in Nashville, moved to near Philly in June 2001. It's too cold here--although I grew up in Illinois with cold winters, my blood has thinned too much--and the traffic and cost of living are terrible compared to Tennessee. I'm looking to move back to Nashville soon.

If it's for me alone, a bowl of grits or mashed potatoes with a pool of melted butter will do just fine. In season, tomato sandwiches. For a family meal, meatloaf or pork chops with my mother's cole slaw. For first time company (when you don't know what they like), some kind of chicken, my fabulous mashed potato casserole, Mandarin salad, a green veg and a fancy refrigerator dessert, pie or souffle.

Tryska...Cottage Cheese Pancakes now on Recipe Gullet. Enjoy.

Sweet: (French Bread) French Toast with melted butter, lime juice and powdered sugar Cottage cheese pancakes with blueberry-orange sauce or some kind of jam My daughter's Chocolate Chunk/Walnut Sour Cream Coffeecake Fried Grits with Maple Syrup and Butter Savory: Eggs Benedict (My favorite dish, which I'm more likely to have at brunch or dinner) Frittata with shrimp, fresh corn, cream cheese and parsley Creamed Eggs (in a Bechamel with Hot Sauce added) Cream cheese mixed with capers and chopped red onion, open face on half a bagel with smoked salmon and a squeeze of fresh lemon (although in a pinch I have substituted salami for the salmon) Good bread, toasted, with in-season tomato slices and fontina cheese melted on top And with everything, bacon, bacon and more bacon. Sadly but realistically, I mostly eat a scrambled egg or two, with or without toast.

I have the premier issue hanging around somewhere...

Cottage Cheese Pancakes Serves 4 as Main Dish. I'm not fond of the fluffy kind of pancakes which absorb too much syrup. These are very tender and delicate. I use Breakstone 2% or 4% fat small curd cottage cheese. These are also great for Atkins or other low carb diets. By my count, 11 grams carbs per 3-pancake serving, using 1/4 C. batter per pancake. Add additional carbs depending on the topping. 1 c cottage cheese 6 large eggs 6 T flour 6 T melted butter Pinch salt Combine all ingredients in food processor and process until smooth. Bake on griddle or iron skillet over medium or medium high heat until cooked on both sides. I usually serve with Blueberry-Orange Sauce made by cooking fresh or frozen blueberries in orange juice and sweetening to taste Keywords: Breakfast, Brunch ( RG919 )

Cottage Cheese Pancakes Serves 4 as Main Dish. I'm not fond of the fluffy kind of pancakes which absorb too much syrup. These are very tender and delicate. I use Breakstone 2% or 4% fat small curd cottage cheese. These are also great for Atkins or other low carb diets. By my count, 11 grams carbs per 3-pancake serving, using 1/4 C. batter per pancake. Add additional carbs depending on the topping. 1 c cottage cheese 6 large eggs 6 T flour 6 T melted butter Pinch salt Combine all ingredients in food processor and process until smooth. Bake on griddle or iron skillet over medium or medium high heat until cooked on both sides. I usually serve with Blueberry-Orange Sauce made by cooking fresh or frozen blueberries in orange juice and sweetening to taste Keywords: Breakfast, Brunch ( RG919 )

I love the description of South Beach as "Atkins without any fun" which is my estimation as well. On Weight Watchers, you can save up your points and have something yummy; on low fat, you can have desserts as there are a few good ones naturally without fat; on low carb and Atkins you can have great protein and dairy. But South Beach? No good stuff, no time.

I would agree with Robyn that my recollections from the 30's would not be accurate--unless you take the word of a 21 month old!

About chickens…back then, chickens were all free range or “yard” chickens, as Brooks calls them. They definitely tasted better, probably due to the varied diet, and it was necessary to cook them longer for tenderness. Farmers raised them from baby chicks in the spring; around six weeks most of them were butchered for frying hens, with the remainder kept for laying hens. Occasionally, or when they were too old, a laying hen would be killed for stewing. This is the origin of “tough old bird” I’m sure. When I referred above to growing up with good food, some of you were probably skeptical given the restaurant descriptions. What I meant was that growing up on a family farm we ate seasonal food. Our vegetables and fruits were grown on the farm, or traded with other farmers, or picked at specialty farms. We picked morels and blackberries and asparagus in the wild. We gorged on strawberries, corn on the cob, tomatoes, knowing we would not taste their like again for a year. We raised our own pork, beef, lamb, poultry. Much of the summer was spent in canning, freezing, pickling, and preserving. Many farms had root cellars—ours was a “cave”—to store potatoes and apples, mostly. Grocery stores were very small, simply because there wasn’t much to sell. We bought things like sugar, flour, cheese, ice cream, iceberg lettuce, Jell-O, bread, and canned goods when we either didn’t raise it or ran out. My dad bought cases of stuff we used most: crushed pineapple, catsup, tuna and tomato soup. There were a few prepared foods like Hostess cupcakes and pineapple pies, and a chocolate cake and vanilla ice cream cake roll called Newlyweds we all loved. We got our first television set when I was twelve in 1950, and TV dinners and cake mixes became available. I swear that all of the available meat back then was graded prime. When I first heard stores bragging because they featured choice I thought they were crazy. No one back then would ever dream of eating anything graded choice, much less select, barely a step up from a grade that used to be (perhaps still is, but I haven’t heard the term for a few years) called “canners and cutters”.

Although I have worded this as though my observations were universally true, I am fully aware that my views are of one person in one rural Midwest area. I’ve gone into a lot of detail because my experiences are so different from those of the East Coaster’s who have replied so far. The 40’s My first remembrance of being in a restaurant is at the end or just after the end of WWII. On leaving a diner type restaurant in a small town in northern Illinois, we spied a small display of candy bars at the cash register, Hershey’s chocolate, Mounds, maybe one or two others. This was amazing because there WERE no candy bars at that time, all had gone for the boys overseas and these were probably black market. My dad bought one for each of us, a real treat. At that time in a rural area, there were very few restaurants. People ate at drug store lunch counters, mom & pop style diners, cafes and cafeterias. My dad took us to every high school football and basketball game from the time I was about 12, and we always went out for a hamburger afterwards. One place had barbequed hamburgers they called Rocket Burgers and hot dogs wrapped in bacon with cheese they called Buzz Bombs after war time weapons. Our main shopping was done in the Quad Cities (Davenport, IA, Rock Island, Moline and East Moline, IL) about 40 miles away where there were other dining choices. The more stylish food was found mainly in hotel dining rooms, like the Blackhawk Hotel. They had a delicious chicken pot pie with the vegetables cooked separately and combined at the end, which I ordered when my step-grandmother took me there for lunch. There were a few really classy places that were more like supper clubs, because they served alcohol. I had my first taste of liquor in a place called The Plantation when a friend of my parents let me taste her grasshopper. In that part of the country, there is a cafeteria chain called Bishop’s, which is still in existence although the food is not nearly as good today. They had a chocolate pie everyone was crazy about, but I always got bread pudding for dessert, and still long to recreate that particular taste. Occasionally we would travel a couple of hours to the Amana Colonies, always for Sunday dinner because that’s the only time one of the best restaurants there served their special “hash” with the meal. Other times my parents’ card club members would all go out to dinner at Ina Mae’s in Muscatine, IA. Ina Mae’s was on the Mississippi and the ground was littered with shells from the button factory with little holes punched in them. The restaurant was famous for their catfish and their salad dressing which everyone was always unsuccessful in duplicating. The restaurant was a nice place with a rather unexpected juke box in the waiting room, featuring popular tunes mixed with a few country artists. There I heard Jimmy Wakely singing the first country music cheating song “Slippin’ Around” with Margaret Whiting in 1949. Speaking of salads, all salads were iceberg lettuce back then, either in wedges or called a “tossed salad” or “combination salad”--those with a few paltry carrot shreds or a pale tomato slice added. Salad bars had never been heard of. I attended twelve grades of school in the same building—high schoolers simply moved upstairs—and that school never had a kindergarten or a cafeteria while I attended. My school lunches, when I didn’t bring them, were eaten at one of two little cafes within a couple blocks of the school. Hot roast beef sandwiches with mashed potatoes and gravy, chili, and chicken and dumplings were popular. I favored hot dogs, 15 cents, mashed potatoes and gravy, 10 cents, and lime Popsicles. The 50s Much of what was true in the 40s continued in the 50s. Restaurants continued to be diners, cafes, cafeterias, hotel dining rooms and supper clubs. Foods were made from scratch of good quality ingredients. Not all food was good, however, since bad cooks are ever with us. Women and girls wore skirts all the time, and everyone seemed to be well dressed when they went out. Most entertaining was done at home; few women worked and all women cooked, whether they liked it or not. And there were plenty of pot lucks, church suppers, fish frys, ice cream socials and wiener roasts to compete with restaurant dining. Smorgasbords started coming to this part of the country, probably the forerunners of salad bars and all-you-can-eat buffets. My Dad ate at “A Little Bit of Sweden” in Chicago and couldn’t stop talking about it. When I finally went, I was intrigued by tongue, which I had never eaten, and raspberry jelly, a jelled fresh raspberry juice a la Jell-o, not a jelly as we know it. In my high school years, dating consisted about 90% of drive-in movies, so eating in the car was big. The first chain/takeout I was aware of served chicken, fries and cranberry sauce. We went out for Maid-Rites and dinner-plate-sized breaded pork tenderloins. Proms were held in the school gym, limos and tuxes unheard of, and the dinner catered by a ladies church group; the Methodist and Presbyterian ladies would each submit a menu and the juniors would vote. On to college—the University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana in 1956—and more cafeteria adventures, both eating and working in a dorm cafeteria. I grew up eating good food and I considered the dorm food very good and sometimes excellent, like the huge cinnamon or orange rolls on Saturday mornings. The exception came on certain Wednesdays when most everyone went out for dinner. The Magna Decca (Big Ten, get it?) Restaurant served nice ham with a sauce of canned fruit cocktail. OK, it wasn’t gourmet, but ten times better than the stewed celery with soy sauce that the dorm called Chop Suey. At school I was introduced to my first pizza and Italian beef sandwiches, for Champaign-Urbana is “Chicago South”. I have never surpassed or even equaled either food since. The pizza was topped with a luscious thick layer of cheese, not the see through layer of today’s chains. Italian beef was served on wonderful Italian rolls with pepperoncini, dripping with beef juices. I also had my first sausage po-boy in the “bad” part of town. Summer after my sophomore year I spent in Chicago, working for the State’s Attorney, whose son, also named Ben Adamowski, was a friend of my fiancée. Ben Jr., on hearing I’d never eaten lobster, treated me to my first at the Palmer House Grill. I don’t remember anything about the lobster, except for liking it, but I do remember my awe at finding that a place called a “grill” could be a fancy white tablecloth restaurant. I watched my pennies very carefully that summer, allowing two breakfasts each week of the bacon and egg kind with “Volare” playing, one of donuts at Wimpy’s, and two lunches at this cafeteria where I indulged in Polish sausage with green beans and a slice of fresh raspberry pie, the uncooked kind, with whipped cream. I don’t remember where I took my other breakfasts and lunches. My cheap dinners I took in the restaurant of the women’s dorm where I lived. They consisted mostly of corned beef hash and cottage cheese and pear salad. My wedding luncheon was held in a hotel in Urbana. I’ll never know what delights I might have selected, as my fiancée was a picky eater and I let him pick the menu of pot roast, mashed potatoes, corn and salad. Ho-hum, but we later had good celebration meals at the hotel. I usually ended dinner with a parfait, quite popular then. As poor newlyweds in Chicago we couldn’t afford much besides pizza and corned beef on a Kaiser roll (my first) at the deli down the block. So whatever the food picture was in Chicago in the late 50s, I wasn’t aware of it. Several jobs took us downstate, where we found a delightful restaurant that reaped every spare penny we could find for their delicious garlicky potatoes and fried chicken. In 1959 we took a belated honeymoon in Florida and on the way (Georgia?) I was exposed to my first “No coloreds allowed” sign in a restaurant window. I refused to go in, but was finally convinced by a person who had driven down with us that this sign would appear everywhere so if I didn’t want to go hungry, I’d better relent. The later revelations of Key Lime Pie and ocean fresh seafood didn’t make up for this distasteful experience. 60s Back to Champaign-Urbana to find McDonalds #3 now in business with the how-many-sold sign in the thousands, not even a million, let alone billions. (The first of the chain was in Chicago, not a suburb.) We lived across the street from a Spudnut shop and frequented these two places more than anywhere else, as we soon had two children and became ever-poorer students. After graduation we moved briefly to Cedar Rapids, Iowa and then on to Louisville, KY, where I had my first chateaubriand and first eggs benedict, and found one of my most favorite all-time restaurants. It was outside Shelbyville, where Colonel Sanders and his wife ran their own restaurant serving seven different vegetables with your choice of chicken, steak or ham. Restaurants were burgeoning in the 60s, with many excellent choices in Louisville. I’ve always loved to eat out, but found after pursuing cooking (thanks, Julia) that I mostly preferred to do it myself. So I’ll let the under 60’s take over telling you about the 60’s. Summary One thing that has really changed is that back then all restaurants were family restaurants. Babysitters were used rarely and the kids went everywhere the parents went As for a woman dining alone, I don’t like to do it, so almost always opt for take out when the situation arises. What I miss most from the 40’s and 50’s is knowing that the food was cooked by real live people back in the kitchen, rather than coming frozen off the Sysco truck.

Marlena, I am enjoying your scrumptious food descriptions immensely. Do tell, what are pg tips?

Duck and Sausage Gumbo The original recipe, Gumbo with Herbs (read greens) came about after my trip to New Orleans in the late 60s. My boss had suggested we try the gumbo at Felix's Oyster Bar and I came home and tried to duplicate it to serve at my restaurant, Cherotree. We had boned about 16 ducks for a special Christmas dinner so had a lot of duck stock on hand. There wasn't quite enough left for another weekend (I served about 30 persons on Friday and Saturday by reservation, fixed menu)so I added a little more stock, some duck and sausage meat for this recipe, which was even better. It's still a big recipe, but freezes very well. I used spinach, turnip greens and mustard greens. Possibly kale or collards would work also. Roux 1 c duck fat 1-1/3 c all-purpose flour The trinity 1 c chopped onion 1 c chopped red or green peppers 1 c chopped celery Soup: 6 qt duck stock 3 lb canned tomatoes, pureed 4 10-ounce packages frozen greens, combination of your choice 1 10-ounce package frozen okra with tomatoes (or omit) Seasonings Red pepper flakes Hot pepper sauce Salt and black pepper Thyme 2 bay leaves Meat: 1 lb sweet or hot Italian sausage Meat of 1 duck For serving Hot cooked rice In a heavy stock pot, make a fairly dark roux of the fat and flour. I cook over a low heat for a long time, stirring occasionally, for about 1 ½ hours, but you can do it faster. Add the onion, peppers and celery, and stir and cook until they are soft. Add six quarts duck stock (all at once), tomatoes, greens and okra. Stir until it comes to a boil. Add seasonings and simmer for about 5-10 minutes. Don’t overdo the seasonings, you will be correcting them later. Cool soup and refrigerate overnight for flavors to blend. If you leave soup in the pot, use ice water in the sink to cool faster. Next day, bring soup to a boil. Cook Italian sausages, drain and dice. Add with duck meat to the soup. Let simmer until ready to use, then adjust seasonings. Thin with additional duck stock, if needed. Serve in soup plates with a scoop of rice in the center. Keywords: Main Dish, Soup, Intermediate, Duck ( RG872 )

Duck and Sausage Gumbo The original recipe, Gumbo with Herbs (read greens) came about after my trip to New Orleans in the late 60s. My boss had suggested we try the gumbo at Felix's Oyster Bar and I came home and tried to duplicate it to serve at my restaurant, Cherotree. We had boned about 16 ducks for a special Christmas dinner so had a lot of duck stock on hand. There wasn't quite enough left for another weekend (I served about 30 persons on Friday and Saturday by reservation, fixed menu)so I added a little more stock, some duck and sausage meat for this recipe, which was even better. It's still a big recipe, but freezes very well. I used spinach, turnip greens and mustard greens. Possibly kale or collards would work also. Roux 1 c duck fat 1-1/3 c all-purpose flour The trinity 1 c chopped onion 1 c chopped red or green peppers 1 c chopped celery Soup: 6 qt duck stock 3 lb canned tomatoes, pureed 4 10-ounce packages frozen greens, combination of your choice 1 10-ounce package frozen okra with tomatoes (or omit) Seasonings Red pepper flakes Hot pepper sauce Salt and black pepper Thyme 2 bay leaves Meat: 1 lb sweet or hot Italian sausage Meat of 1 duck For serving Hot cooked rice In a heavy stock pot, make a fairly dark roux of the fat and flour. I cook over a low heat for a long time, stirring occasionally, for about 1 ½ hours, but you can do it faster. Add the onion, peppers and celery, and stir and cook until they are soft. Add six quarts duck stock (all at once), tomatoes, greens and okra. Stir until it comes to a boil. Add seasonings and simmer for about 5-10 minutes. Don’t overdo the seasonings, you will be correcting them later. Cool soup and refrigerate overnight for flavors to blend. If you leave soup in the pot, use ice water in the sink to cool faster. Next day, bring soup to a boil. Cook Italian sausages, drain and dice. Add with duck meat to the soup. Let simmer until ready to use, then adjust seasonings. Thin with additional duck stock, if needed. Serve in soup plates with a scoop of rice in the center. Keywords: Main Dish, Soup, Intermediate, Duck ( RG872 )

Thanks, duckduck. The recipe for Keith Famie's bread pudding is here I'll be trying this one and others as well.

I used challah-baker's bread pudding recipe as a "base" this past weekend, as I am always looking for the ideal bread/ liquid proportions. My past results have been inconsistent, but I was very pleased with this recipe. My variation: 1. Added a little more bread because I didn't want any custard without bread, yet I wanted it very moist. Used about half a one pound loaf, 6 cups lightly packed, and this was about right for me, only a little custard in the bottom.. The bread was challah from the grocery store bakery with crusts removed. 2. Omitted spices and raisins as I wanted to serve pudding warm with a sauce and whipped cream. Used milk instead of cream for this reason also, but I did top with about 3 T. melted butter. 3. Baked in an 8 x 11 pan for ease of serving and maximum of crust, about 35 minutes, then turned up the heat to 425 degrees to brown. Results: Puffs "loverly" and re-puffs when you re-heat in oven. It tasted very much like a dessert souffle. Both raspberry jam sauce and caramel sauce (tried separately) seemed a bit sweet with the amount of sugar in the pudding, even with whipped cream barely sweetened. A more tart raspberry sauce is called for. Pudding would be perfect with this amount of sugar, however, when adding raisins and spices and serving plain or with whipped cream alone. Adding the butter on top prevented the crust of sugar from getting crisp, so I wouldn't do this again. In places the butter didn't reach, it was quite nice and crusty. Did you know you can substitute cake cubes for half the bread in bread pudding recipes? Stale pound cake or Sara Lee's from the freezer or probably ladyfingers would do, and a minimum of sugar. I have made a bread and cake pudding with candied fruits soaked in rum or Grand Marnier and a little chopped chocolate added. Thanks, challah-baker, for a most satisfying recipes. I'll definitely be making it again soon.

Cook in a small amount of water and puree apricots--should be a thick puree. Chill and put one cup puree in a mixer bowl with one cup of heavy cream and whip. I've found you can whip a cup of cream with lots of things like puddings and citrus curds, lots easier than folding in the whipped cream. Use as a filling for cakes, cake rolls, Pavlovas, etc. Make up a big batch of puree and store in the freezer in 1 cup portions. Without cream, may be used as filling for cookies and coffeecakes. Also a base for scrumptious ice cream, don't forget the almond flavoring.

Here are some recipes submitted to a community cookbook I once edited: a cocktail involving gin, canned peaches and a blender leftover cauliflower served with spaghetti sauce chicken breasts cooked in canned mushroom soup and 7-Up All from the same woman. She represented one of the group's sponsors so I had to include at least one of her recipes to be polite: the cocktail won, mainly because the thought of the other two made me nauseous. P. S. The book was a "serious" publication with some seriously good recipes. The word had gotten out that I would have no truck with Cool Whip recipes and the like, but this lady evidently didn't hear.

How amusing for an old-time country meat to become fashionable. Here's the way we used to eat it down on the farm. Of course, then we butchered our own hogs, but here are directions for purchasing. Order a whole side of pork. Instruct the butcher to remove the rind, partially freeze the meat and slice as for thick sliced bacon. There will be enough slices for several meals. Extra may be frozen with waxed paper between layers. Cut slices in half for more manageable pieces. Salt and pepper slices and dredge in flour. Arrange in a single layer in a cast iron skillet or other frying pan. Cook over medium heat until brown and crisp, turning as necessary. No need to add fat, as the fat will soon melt out of the meat. Remove slices when done, and keep adding layers and frying until desired amount is cooked. This is so irresistible that you will need more than you think. Drain off most of the fat and make a cream gravy of the drippings. Serve with boiled potatoes and homemade applesauce. This is actually my favorite country style meal, but I haven't had it in years.

In food mode, I'd choose four cooks whose recipes sound as though they cook and eat the way I prefer: Bert Greene, Nathalie Dupree, Michael Field, and, if they could count as one, Jane and Michael Stern (for "Real American Food"). If not, then the delightful Irina Chalmers. If I need a lift: Jackie Gleason, Dave Barry, Johnny Carson and Erma Bombeck. If I need a little love: David James Elliott times four (in dress whites, please)